Take that FIOS - gimme 100 Mbs from Cable

[zanejohnson]

100mbps would be nice but as of right now there's not a whole lot of places that could provide you that kind of bandwidth on the upstream... but yeah, docsis 3.0 is gonna change everything, now if all the cable companys would keep trying to avoid the upgrade.

 

[aceO07]

Originally posted by: SludgeFactory

Originally posted by: Engineer
I read about this around noon on Broadbandreports.com. Sound sweet. Not sure if I need that kind of speed or not...er...sure I do...but $99.00 is more that I want to spend (but might find a way, lol) 😛

Shit, I'm too cheap to pony up an extra $10 per month to go from 10Mbps to 20Mbps right now, lol! 😛

Based on some of the new and proposed pricing strategies I've seen from cable companies, especially when the Time Warner thing was blowing up, it occurred to me that the plan is to condition customers to accept $100/month cable internet bills -- to replace the revenue they're going to lose as people ditch $50 cable TV packages.

I can't get too excited about these gaudy speed numbers from DOCSIS 3.0, when they're apparently going to cost a household $90-$100/month (*double* the price? WTF?) and eventually come with caps, caps that will prove to be way too low when most of us start slamming that connection for all of our TV and HD video.

I think it's conditioning too. Here's a FAST $99 UNLIMITED plan blah blah blah. Months later, Here's a not as fast, but STILL UNLIMITED plan for $70 blah blahblah. Eventually the current good enough speed for most people and supposedly 'unlimited' plans will get phased out and the prices on the new plans will be higher for the same features.

Same thing happened with cell phone plans. I can't even find a plan for $29 with the features that I had 6+ years ago. Sure I do get lots of 'new' features that I don't use..

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: aceO07

Originally posted by: SludgeFactory

Originally posted by: Engineer
I read about this around noon on Broadbandreports.com. Sound sweet. Not sure if I need that kind of speed or not...er...sure I do...but $99.00 is more that I want to spend (but might find a way, lol) 😛

Shit, I'm too cheap to pony up an extra $10 per month to go from 10Mbps to 20Mbps right now, lol! 😛

Based on some of the new and proposed pricing strategies I've seen from cable companies, especially when the Time Warner thing was blowing up, it occurred to me that the plan is to condition customers to accept $100/month cable internet bills -- to replace the revenue they're going to lose as people ditch $50 cable TV packages.

I can't get too excited about these gaudy speed numbers from DOCSIS 3.0, when they're apparently going to cost a household $90-$100/month (*double* the price? WTF?) and eventually come with caps, caps that will prove to be way too low when most of us start slamming that connection for all of our TV and HD video.

I think it's conditioning too. Here's a FAST $99 UNLIMITED plan blah blah blah. Months later, Here's a not as fast, but STILL UNLIMITED plan for $70 blah blahblah. Eventually the current good enough speed for most people and supposedly 'unlimited' plans will get phased out and the prices on the new plans will be higher for the same features.

Along those same lines, funny how $2.00 gasoline is now "cheap"! 😛

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

So, are you finally going to admit that it's a bunch of bullshit that "if you want that kind of unlimited bandwidth, you're going to have to pay a fortune for a business account." I used to agree with you, but after doing a lot more research, realized that it was a bunch of garbage being fed to us.

This is still best effort, upto consumer broadband service. And I've said all along that the battle between cable/fios was always going to be best for the customer for voice, video and data.

 

[rudeguy]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: DrPizza

So, are you finally going to admit that it's a bunch of bullshit that "if you want that kind of unlimited bandwidth, you're going to have to pay a fortune for a business account." I used to agree with you, but after doing a lot more research, realized that it was a bunch of garbage being fed to us.

This is still best effort, upto consumer broadband service. And I've said all along that the battle between cable/fios was always going to be best for the customer for voice, video and data.

you mean cable and telephone companies...cable companies already use fios. Its slightly important to note that.

Cable companies could easily up there download speeds without much cost. Right now there isn't a huge demand or market for super fast commercial connections. It sounds great to us nerds....only $20 a house....but when 90% of the subscribers don't need anything faster than 1 meg, its not worth the investment.

I am still trying to figure out how bandwidth caps figure into all this. Since most people don't use hardly any bandwidth, why not let us hardcore users take up their slack? Its not like the networks can't handle it.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Wow, US internet is great. Here we get 5 mb, and that's the advertised speeds. I rarely actually see it. At least it's unlimited though, so I don't have to worry about how much I download.

But to have even 10mb sustained with decent upload would be great for running internet servers on a budget.

 

[zanejohnson]

Originally posted by: RedSquirrel
Wow, US internet is great. Here we get 5 mb, and that's the advertised speeds. I rarely actually see it. At least it's unlimited though, so I don't have to worry about how much I download.

But to have even 10mb sustained with decent upload would be great for running internet servers on a budget.

as of right now most places in the US aren't that great, FIOS isn't available everywhere, and ALMOST everywhere cable is still docsis 2.0...

like here in my town, which isn't really "rural," but it's not in the city either... population of ~25,000, but only about 60 miles from Dallas, and "urban sprawl" almost all of those 60 miles into the city, the best business package from the cable company is 16mbps down, 8 up, and it's 139 bucks a month, i pay 99/month for 8/8, it's the second to the best business package... the residential packages are like 3/512, 5/768, 7/1... DSL is comparable in price/speed...

so the reality of it is it's not that much different here right now, but with docsis 3.0, whenever everywhere starts to change...and if FIOS is ever available in my area we'll start to see some good things..

 

[RadiclDreamer]

Originally posted by: spidey07
If you're in the new york area you could have 100 Mbs service from Cablevision by May 11 as they roll out Docsis 3.0.

Go go gadget DOCSIS 3.0!!!

"Cablevision Systems Corp. (NYSE: CVC) has become the first U.S. MSO to launch a Docsis 3.0 Internet service that produces downstream speed bursts of more than 100 Mbit/s -- 101 Mbit/s, in fact.

In North America, that gives the New York-based MSO some cable industry bragging rights, just outpacing a 100-Mbit/s Docsis 3.0 tier that Canada's Shaw Communications Inc. launched earlier this year. But for those who are keeping score, both Shaw and Cablevision trail Jupiter Telecommunications Co. Ltd. (J:COM) 's 160-Mbit/s wideband service in Japan. (See Shaw Bows 100 Mbit/s 'Nitro' Tier, Shaw Breaks 100-Meg Barrier, J:COM Does Docsis 3.0 All Over, and Wideband: Priced to Move .) "

-edit-
forgot link
http://www.lightreading.com/do...oc_id=175929&site=cdn&

That 100mbps connection doesnt look so good with the 4GB cap or whatever bullshit they try to pull

 

[cliftonite]

Supposedly these will be the new speeds for FIOS:

-10/10
- 25/25
- 75/25 (I think this is the current standalone (cant be bundled with triple play) 50/20 package)

25/25 will be nice if true.

 

[Genx87]

The wave is coming.

 

[rudder]

You could download the whole internet at that speed.

 

[Crono]

100 Mbps sounds nice, but I wouldn't pay $99 for it.
I don't even max out the 16/5 connection (actual sustained speed) I'm on now with Optimum, so don't really need Boost or the Docsis 3.0/100 plan they will offer.

 

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
Take a look at the wiki link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOCSIS

170Mbps or 340Mbps download speed per node. Absolutely fucking useless assuming it's a 4 channel bonding. It's asinine to offer plans that allocate more than half of the total node bandwidth to a single customer. Overselling to the max. This is just a desperate attempt to compete with FIOS which will ultimately fail because FIOS can offer those speeds without overselling.

Verizon is much better equipped to deliver high speeds, but even they could quickly run into bandwidth limitations. BPON nodes share 622Mbps downstream and 155Mbps upstream among 32 customers. That's about 20Mbps of downstream bandwidth split evenly among all 32 customers.

GPON offers a lot more capacity, 2.4/1.2Gbps among the same 32 customers. With this upgrade they could guarantee 75Mbps downstream and 38Mbps upstream for every customer. Better, but still not even 100Mbps.

 

[Cable God]

The 20/2 that I have at home is good, but 100 would be way better. I'd pay $99/mo for it, but I find it HARD to believe that they will not have caps.....

They moan enough already.......

 

[fleshconsumed]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
Take a look at the wiki link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOCSIS

170Mbps or 340Mbps download speed per node. Absolutely fucking useless assuming it's a 4 channel bonding. It's asinine to offer plans that allocate more than half of the total node bandwidth to a single customer. Overselling to the max. This is just a desperate attempt to compete with FIOS which will ultimately fail because FIOS can offer those speeds without overselling.

Verizon is much better equipped to deliver high speeds, but even they could quickly run into bandwidth limitations. BPON nodes share 622Mbps downstream and 155Mbps upstream among 32 customers. That's about 20Mbps of downstream bandwidth split evenly among all 32 customers.

GPON offers a lot more capacity, 2.4/1.2Gbps among the same 32 customers. With this upgrade they could guarantee 75Mbps downstream and 38Mbps upstream for every customer. Better, but still not even 100Mbps.

You're right on all points. Even with 2.4Gbps Verizon cannot deliver 100Mbps if all users on the node sign up for it. However, they can deliver much higher sustained speeds during high usage time, and since not everybody will be subscribing to 100Mbps tiers, chances are with Verizon you will always have sustained speeds that you paid for.

In the end 100Mbps plans on cable are posturing, just to say "we can", with microprint at the bottom "when conditions are right and nobody else is using internet on the node but you". Seriously, offering plans that give you more than half of total node bandwidth is insane.

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: Cable God
The 20/2 that I have at home is good, but 100 would be way better. I'd pay $99/mo for it, but I find it HARD to believe that they will not have caps.....

They moan enough already.......

Smile upon me, so I can afford the 100 Mbps connection.

 

[little elvis]

Hmmm, I use Shaw, just checked their webpage. $250 a month gets you 100/5 with a 200gb cap.

Really, a 200gb cap? What's that equivalent to, about 8 hours of continuous downloading?

Heh, I didn't realize I had a 60gb cap on my tier.... In my case they don't seem to be enforcing it.

 

[uhohs]

i've been stuck on AT&T's slowpoke elite plan the past 4 or 5 years. 🙁

 

[Red Squirrel]

Originally posted by: little elvis
Hmmm, I use Shaw, just checked their webpage. $250 a month gets you 100/5 with a 200gb cap.

Really, a 200gb cap? What's that equivalent to, about 8 hours of continuous downloading?

Heh, I didn't realize I had a 60gb cap on my tier.... In my case they don't seem to be enforcing it.

I work for my isp, and I did not even know but we have a cap too. It's not really enforced unless you're running a server or have a virus that's spewing out tons of spam, and even then, most of the ones with viruses are businesses who think they know everything but are clueless about computers, and the second we shut them down they'll call in yelling.

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed

Originally posted by: frostedflakes

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
Take a look at the wiki link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOCSIS

170Mbps or 340Mbps download speed per node. Absolutely fucking useless assuming it's a 4 channel bonding. It's asinine to offer plans that allocate more than half of the total node bandwidth to a single customer. Overselling to the max. This is just a desperate attempt to compete with FIOS which will ultimately fail because FIOS can offer those speeds without overselling.

Verizon is much better equipped to deliver high speeds, but even they could quickly run into bandwidth limitations. BPON nodes share 622Mbps downstream and 155Mbps upstream among 32 customers. That's about 20Mbps of downstream bandwidth split evenly among all 32 customers.

GPON offers a lot more capacity, 2.4/1.2Gbps among the same 32 customers. With this upgrade they could guarantee 75Mbps downstream and 38Mbps upstream for every customer. Better, but still not even 100Mbps.

You're right on all points. Even with 2.4Gbps Verizon cannot deliver 100Mbps if all users on the node sign up for it. However, they can deliver much higher sustained speeds during high usage time, and since not everybody will be subscribing to 100Mbps tiers, chances are with Verizon you will always have sustained speeds that you paid for.

In the end 100Mbps plans on cable are posturing, just to say "we can", with microprint at the bottom "when conditions are right and nobody else is using internet on the node but you". Seriously, offering plans that give you more than half of total node bandwidth is insane.

Big pipes from the user's dwelling to the cable plant do nothing for real speeds particularly if their pipes are already maxed out. People in Japan may have fast gigabit lines to their abodes but their download speeds to the North American mainland would not be any faster than cable users there. (assuming there is no node hogging going on).

Either way I'm highly envious of any sub 500ms 2Mbps connection here. :Q

 

[RaiderJ]

I'm really happy with FIOS. For $50/mo I get 10Mb/2Mb sustained and no caps. That's easily enough to stream 1080p movies in realtime. They offer faster packages, but I can't think of why I'd need anything faster (yet).

 

[SludgeFactory]

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
You're right on all points. Even with 2.4Gbps Verizon cannot deliver 100Mbps if all users on the node sign up for it. However, they can deliver much higher sustained speeds during high usage time, and since not everybody will be subscribing to 100Mbps tiers, chances are with Verizon you will always have sustained speeds that you paid for.

In the end 100Mbps plans on cable are posturing, just to say "we can", with microprint at the bottom "when conditions are right and nobody else is using internet on the node but you". Seriously, offering plans that give you more than half of total node bandwidth is insane.

So a pathetically few "devil customers" will bring the network to its knees. Any cable company that sells internet access with this house of cards backing it up will *have* to cap and/or bandwidth throttle any customer who attempts to max their connection for a sustained amount of time.

I wonder if your cable connection will be crawling for that first week or so of each billing cycle, as all the heavy users attempt to burn through their month's worth of cap in the first 3 days of the month.

 

[ultimatebob]

I wonder how fast that connection will be once you fire up a BitTorrent client and start grabbing Linux installation .ISO's... Assuming that it's a cable company, I'll bet that it get throttled to DSL speeds within minutes.

 

[sswingle]

I would just be happy with a better upload than 750k. 15MB down is nice, but uploading anything is painful.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: SludgeFactory

So a pathetically few "devil customers" will bring the network to its knees. Any cable company that sells internet access with this house of cards backing it up will *have* to cap and/or bandwidth throttle any customer who attempts to max their connection for a sustained amount of time.

I wonder if your cable connection will be crawling for that first week or so of each billing cycle, as all the heavy users attempt to burn through their month's worth of cap in the first 3 days of the month.

Every network ever made is oversubscribed at the access layer. And you can allocate different channels to different modems to share the load on the same RF domain. It's not really that big of a deal. But please do poo-poo and dismiss 100 meg service, I thought this is what you guys wanted? 100 meg service, sub 100 bucks, no caps.