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Taiwan opposition triumphs in elections

prontospyder

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,262
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Taiwan's central election commission projected that Ma Ying-jeou had won more than 58 percent versus Frank Hsieh's 41 percent, with most of the votes counted.
Link

Wow - 75% voter turnout - pretty impressive. :)
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
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Called slap in face to USA - Country that has protected them from China forever
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,657
13,735
136
You really should read the linked piece before posting, dahunan. The results of the election reinforce the status quo, which is in the interests of all concerned, other than fearmongers and weapons dealers...
 

LongCoolMother

Diamond Member
Sep 4, 2001
5,677
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The KMT won by a HUGE margin. Turns out the people of Taiwan are finally sick and tired of all the BS they've received from the DPP.

If you are familiar with Taiwan, you know how intense the politics are. And so many people from other countries flew there just for the weekend to cast their ballots.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
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I read other pieces that said they want stronger economic ties to China and wanted more connection to China in other ways.. This guy was probably a Chinese plant
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,850
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Originally posted by: LongCoolMother
The KMT won by a HUGE margin. Turns out the people of Taiwan are finally sick and tired of all the BS they've received from the DPP.

If you are familiar with Taiwan, you know how intense the politics are. And so many people from other countries flew there just for the weekend to cast their ballots.
Yeah, this is actually a very important election in Asia and for the US as well. DDP has been putting America in tough position and causing confrontation with China with talks of independence and joining UN. With KMT in power, it will be back to business as usual with status quo and less tension in the Asia-Pacific region. The new president also promised closer trade ties with China, so look for Taiwanese electronic makers like Asus, BenQ and many others to be more competitive in the market place.
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,850
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Originally posted by: dahunan
I read other pieces that said they want stronger economic ties to China and wanted more connection to China in other ways.. This guy was probably a Chinese plant
Laugh...the guy is a Harvard graduate and was the mayor of the biggest city in Taiwan. He knows more about Taiwan and how to use diplomacy to protect Taiwan then some Internet armchair general who have no idea what the heck he is talking about.
 

ManSnake

Diamond Member
Oct 26, 2000
4,749
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Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: dahunan
I read other pieces that said they want stronger economic ties to China and wanted more connection to China in other ways.. This guy was probably a Chinese plant
Laugh...the guy is a Harvard graduate and was the mayor of the biggest city in Taiwan. He knows more about Taiwan and how to use diplomacy to protect Taiwan then some Internet armchair general who have no idea what the heck he is talking about.
The guy wasn't even born in Taiwan. He was born in Hong Kong. So he might be a Chinese plant after all.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
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Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: dahunan
I read other pieces that said they want stronger economic ties to China and wanted more connection to China in other ways.. This guy was probably a Chinese plant
Laugh...the guy is a Harvard graduate and was the mayor of the biggest city in Taiwan. He knows more about Taiwan and how to use diplomacy to protect Taiwan then some Internet armchair general who have no idea what the heck he is talking about.
Why do you assume he is for Taiwanese when all he talks about are great economic ties to China.. :confused: It will be a two way street.. More Chinese firms setting up shop in Taiwan .. more influence from the wonderfully peaceful and liberty loving Chinese Government

Sad that you so quickly talk trash about the DPP who wanted to strengthen Taiwan .. not weaken her with Chinese influence
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,880
4,211
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Makes no difference. We have given tacit approval to slaughter in Tibet. We even have a President who will support China by going to their Olympics. If China turns it's eye towards Taiwan, no one will stop it.
 

ZzZGuy

Golden Member
Nov 15, 2006
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As it stands right now, it is impossible to invade Taiwan, China simply does not have the ability to move enough troops onto the island across the 100 miles of open water and the Taiwan beaches are death traps, China's numbers mean nothing. I don't know how the war in the air would go but China would have to pull a lot of stuff from other areas it would rather not. If they opt for a naval blockade, what happens if American ships ignore the blockage? Are they willing to open fire and risk a war or at least increased US support of Taiwan. The missiles will have a limited impact more for shock value and once fired there will only be a small trickle of them afterwards.

On Taiwan's side i hear they are not upgrading their military very much to counter China, so I don't think they are all that interested in being declared a separate country from China just yet.

So I think China is going for a more passive way to take control on Taiwan, even if it takes 50 to 100 years. If i'm wrong on any of these points feel free to correct me.
 

LongCoolMother

Diamond Member
Sep 4, 2001
5,677
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Originally posted by: ZzZGuy
As it stands right now, it is impossible to invade Taiwan, China simply does not have the ability to move enough troops onto the island across the 100 miles of open water and the Taiwan beaches are death traps, China's numbers mean nothing. I don't know how the war in the air would go but China would have to pull a lot of stuff from other areas it would rather not. If they opt for a naval blockade, what happens if American ships ignore the blockage? Are they willing to open fire and risk a war or at least increased US support of Taiwan. The missiles will have a limited impact more for shock value and once fired there will only be a small trickle of them afterwards.

On Taiwan's side i hear they are not upgrading their military very much to counter China, so I don't think they are all that interested in being declared a separate country from China just yet.

So I think China is going for a more passive way to take control on Taiwan, even if it takes 50 to 100 years. If i'm wrong on any of these points feel free to correct me.
I don't think China really intends on invading Taiwan in the near future without reason. They are just afraid of any change to the status quo, which has been what Taiwan was heading towards the past few years. China, and the US also, doesn't want to see Taiwan "rock the boat," in a sense.

Also, there is no guarantee that the US will cooperate with Taiwan in the case that they do declare formal independence, as US patience with Taiwan has been waning with the current President's continuous provocative actions. But I DO think those missiles will matter a great deal if China decides to use them (which I highly doubt they will). Remember 'carpet bombing'?
 

sunzt

Diamond Member
Nov 27, 2003
3,079
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Originally posted by: ManSnake
The guy wasn't even born in Taiwan. He was born in Hong Kong. So he might be a Chinese plant after all.
ROFL!!!

You know that in the 1950's Hong Kong belonged to the UK right? You know that he moved to Taiwan since he was 1 year old? You know he has always referred to himself as Taiwanese and would be buried in Taiwan?

..... Chinese plant.... right.... not likely.


Another thing

"There're more than 60,000 Taiwanese enterprises on mainland China, and more than 1 million Taiwanese reside there. Cumulative Taiwanese investment in the mainland as of 2005 total over USD100billion. In 2005 Taiwan exported USD56.3billion (28.4% of total export) to mainland and imported USD20.1billion from mainland. All these were achieved in spite of the many restrictions imposed by the out-going president Chen Shui-bian. Imagine what lies ahead for Taiwan under Ma Ying-jeou."
BBC forum

Anyhow, this is GREAT NEWS FOR THE WORLD since one potential major war has been averted for at leas the next 4 years. Definitely good news for the US since they maintain status quo, and the expected economic improvements in Taiwan should allow for more competitive electronics (price and technology) in the US.
 

sunzt

Diamond Member
Nov 27, 2003
3,079
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Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: dahunan
I read other pieces that said they want stronger economic ties to China and wanted more connection to China in other ways.. This guy was probably a Chinese plant
Laugh...the guy is a Harvard graduate and was the mayor of the biggest city in Taiwan. He knows more about Taiwan and how to use diplomacy to protect Taiwan then some Internet armchair general who have no idea what the heck he is talking about.
Why do you assume he is for Taiwanese when all he talks about are great economic ties to China.. :confused: It will be a two way street.. More Chinese firms setting up shop in Taiwan .. more influence from the wonderfully peaceful and liberty loving Chinese Government

Sad that you so quickly talk trash about the DPP who wanted to strengthen Taiwan .. not weaken her with Chinese influence
The DPP did anything, but strengthen Taiwan. The DPP made Taiwan miss the economic boom in China during the last 8 years, and have sank their economy. Strengthening is not about dividing people and causing threats of violence, hostility, and war from the Chinese all for the sole purpose of staying in power and furthering their agenda.

The DPP lost because they never gave reasons that people should vote for them, they only gave reasons that they shouldn't vote for KMT.

Could it be that Taiwanese want peace and economic prosperity and maintain the status quo, rather than further isolation from the mainland, hostility, conflict, and FREEEEEEEEDDDDUUUUMMMMMMM!!!!!??? Naww, that doesn't make sense to you I'm sure.
 

LongCoolMother

Diamond Member
Sep 4, 2001
5,677
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Originally posted by: ManSnake
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: dahunan
I read other pieces that said they want stronger economic ties to China and wanted more connection to China in other ways.. This guy was probably a Chinese plant
Laugh...the guy is a Harvard graduate and was the mayor of the biggest city in Taiwan. He knows more about Taiwan and how to use diplomacy to protect Taiwan then some Internet armchair general who have no idea what the heck he is talking about.
The guy wasn't even born in Taiwan. He was born in Hong Kong. So he might be a Chinese plant after all.
He moved to Taiwan when he was 1 year old. I'm sure he really has some deep connections with China, growing up all those years in HK. I wonder how many 1 year olds are made into secret Chinese plants...
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
29,782
3,306
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Originally posted by: dahunan
Called slap in face to USA - Country that has protected them from China forever
I see it as an opportunity to make peace with China over this.

Should we deny Taiwan?s will to suck up to its mother country? Apparently they elected to do so.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
1
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Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: dahunan
Called slap in face to USA - Country that has protected them from China forever
I see it as an opportunity to make peace with China over this.

Should we deny Taiwan?s will to suck up to its mother country? Apparently they elected to do so.
True.. after reading the replies here from people more knowledgeable on the subject than I am .. this looks like it could ease short term struggles between the two NATIONS.. Long term...swallowed like a guppy
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,607
3
76
Taiwanese people are not Chinese. Why do people automatically accept China's claim to these sovereign people and their land?
 

Aegeon

Golden Member
Nov 2, 2004
1,809
125
106
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
I see it as an opportunity to make peace with China over this.

Should we deny Taiwan?s will to suck up to its mother country? Apparently they elected to do so.
You don't seem to understand the issues actually at stake here and debated in this particular election.

The newly elected President of Taiwan has the position Taiwan should avoid formally declaring independence or any fairly empty symbolic acts that would provoke China, and talk about possibly reunifying with China in the DISTANT future. After all if China becomes a true Democracy sometime in the future, reunifying might be a perfect acceptable option at that point. In the meantime Taiwan retains its status as a defacto truly independent country as they have been for almost 60 years.

Seeking closer economic ties in the short term by no means means the two countries are about to reunify, and if the Taiwanese President tried to actually quickly move move towards doing that in the short term, the DPP would quickly completely regain political power.

Right now Taiwan may actually buy more weaponry in the next few years for self defense than they have been doing recently since the recent political gridlock holding things up with separate parties in control of Congress and the Presidency is now ended.
 

ManSnake

Diamond Member
Oct 26, 2000
4,749
0
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Originally posted by: MadRat
Taiwanese people are not Chinese. Why do people automatically accept China's claim to these sovereign people and their land?
Yes, you are only partially correct. The indigenous people of Taiwan (<2% of the island's population) are not Chinese, a majority of the remaining population is ethnic Chinese (Han). Most people on the island still refer to themselves as "tang ren", which translates to Chinese. There is a reason why the official title of Taiwan is Republic of China.

FYI for the longest time, the goal of Taiwan's ruling party for all but 8 years, Kuomingtang (Nationalist), is to retake mainland from the Communists.
 

Aegeon

Golden Member
Nov 2, 2004
1,809
125
106
Edit: Nevermind upon reflection the original statement was already reasonably clear.
 

sunzt

Diamond Member
Nov 27, 2003
3,079
3
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Originally posted by: MadRat
Taiwanese people are not Chinese. Why do people automatically accept China's claim to these sovereign people and their land?
Because the US agreed that Taiwan was part of China since Nixon? Because they have no UN representation? Because so many of them call themselves Chinese? Because they read, write, and speak in Chinese? Because they call themselves the Republic of China, not the Republic of Taiwan? Because all their maps show themselves as part of mainland China? Because their ultimate goal was to conquer China (read reunification) since they were created? Technically most of them are Chinese descendants from a generation ago and they admit it.

Hmm.. now that I think of it I can't even understand why people would see Taiwan as part of China.... I"M SOOO CUNFOOZED!!
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,607
3
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I clearly stated Taiwanese. Leave it to sunzt to be confused what a Taiwanese person is opposed to a Chinese. Obviously he doesn't know the difference.
 

sunzt

Diamond Member
Nov 27, 2003
3,079
3
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Originally posted by: MadRat
I clearly stated Taiwanese. Leave it to sunzt to be confused what a Taiwanese person is opposed to a Chinese. Obviously he doesn't know the difference.
Taiwanese:
"1. of or pertaining to Taiwan or its people"
"2. a native or inhabitant of Taiwan"
Both of which mean the whole population of ethnically Chinese and indigenous Taiwanese.

You're getting confused between the difference between a Taiwanese person, who are mostly Chinese, and the native/indigenous Taiwanese. The correct term you're looking for is native/indigenous Taiwanese, because most people on Taiwan are ethnically Chinese and they'll call themselves Chinese.

It's like saying "Americans" when you're actually referring to the Native Americans. No one is going to assume you mean Native Americans specifically.

Don't blame me cause you weren't aware of the differences.

So you want the native Taiwanese to have their own land in reserves? That makes even more sense! Or maybe they should riot and declare independence from Taiwan. That'll send a message.
 

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