Tablets vs Netbooks (Graphical Hardware thread)

Which Mobile SOC will gain the most ground?

  • Nvidia Tegra 2 (ARM/Nvidia SOC)

  • AMD Ontario (Bobcat/Evergreen SOC)

  • Intel

  • Apple's ARM SOC

  • Other


Results are only viewable after voting.

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
221
106
I decided to start this thread because there seems to quite a bit of expansion in the Mobile Internet Device category. There has even been talk of providing docking stations for these devices so they can be used as the primary computer.

What makes things even more confusing is the migration of Smart phone OSes (Like Meego) into the Netbook space.

Please vote and give your opinion.

(Moderators, if you think this thread is better off in SFF forum please move it there)

EDIT: I changed the Title from " Mobile Video Hardware thread, who will win?" to Tablets vs Netbooks (Graphical Hardware thread).
 
Last edited:

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
221
106
I see two votes for Ontario.

I like the idea of that processor also, but what does the forum think of this Tegra 2 interview with JHH.

http://blog.laptopmag.com/nvidia-ce...-to-meld-hints-at-tegra-powered-webos-devices

With a really well developed Software Ecosytem I just wonder what could happen in the realm of Personal computer at the level of Tegra 3 and beyond? Could Nvidia and others eventually migrate into the laptop or light desktop replacement market with this technology?
 

Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
10,140
819
126
Assuming winning = sales, I have no idea why anyone would vote anything but Intel.
 

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
67
91
Your poll is interesting, it is like asking which graphics card is going to grab more marketshare, the Voodoo 5, GeForce 6800GT or AMD 4870. You are comparing parts with wildly different market timeframes for the mobile sector. Also they cross some very different markets themselves- two of the parts are best suited for Netbooks, passable for tablets and way too power hungry for phones(Intel would disagree- but 50% more power draw then Tegra2 is crazy in this market); one is borderline smartphone/tablet, the other is a mid tier smarthpone chip and weak tablet offering. By the time Ontario is shipping in anything- A4 and Tegra2 will be entry level smart phone parts.

Looking at it from a long term perspective in terms of their respective companies- Apple is already holding down a considerable marketshare and is rapidly moving up market segments with their parts. They have gone from a very solid showing in the smartphone segment up to a very impressive launch in the tablet segment. Apple has one huge advantage over the other three here, they make their own software for their platform. They also have a massive disadvantage compared to the other three here, they make their own software for their platform. In end effect, it is hard to imagine the downside not being too much for the upside to handle in terms of long term custom retention. That said, they had what it took to get their platform off the ground.

nVidia has already made a huge mistake in this segment. They focused their efforts on a third rate company with no clue how to compete in this market segment, a small time bit player named Microsoft. They realized how stupid that choice was at this point and have jumped on the Android bandwagon. If they could get RIM to support them too, they would be in a very good position to advance their platform moving forward. As of right now Android has all the market momentum, but this market can change very quickly as we saw with Apple's rapid explosion and now their steady decline.

Intel bet on MeeGo. Really, what can you even say about that? At least with nV you could understand that MS was bound to get it right at some point, even if it took them far too long(hasn't happened yet, but WM7 is a step in the right direction). Also, x86- really? Why burden yourself with an architecture that heavy? It's like they are trying to help everyone else spotting them die space to compensate for their fabrication advantage. This is the mobile market. ARM owns this market- why carry over legacy hardware? Clearly Intel had people in charge of Moorestown that were comparable in capacity to those in charge of Larrabee. If Intel doesn't rapidly make adjustments to focus on a viable platform, they are dead in the water. MeeGo is a fail.

AMD is likely 18 months or so away from shipping products to end consumers. The mobile market isn't like other markets, you don't release a chip in January and have products shipping to end users in January, or March, or July. On a realistic basis Ontario is going up against Tegra3, A5, and Moorescity- hard to say how it will do as none of the players that want to sell their current products are telling us about what is going to hit next year.

In the Netbook segment Intel and AMD should do quite well. Once you get into the smart/superphone/tablet category the problem is you need your part shipping with a viable platform. This is nothing at all like PCs where you make sure you run Windows better then anyone and you win. Intel/AMD and nV need to get up to par with platform support or they need to make RIM an offer they can't refuse.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
221
106
Your poll is interesting, it is like asking which graphics card is going to grab more marketshare, the Voodoo 5, GeForce 6800GT or AMD 4870. You are comparing parts with wildly different market timeframes for the mobile sector. Also they cross some very different markets themselves- two of the parts are best suited for Netbooks, passable for tablets and way too power hungry for phones(Intel would disagree- but 50% more power draw then Tegra2 is crazy in this market); one is borderline smartphone/tablet, the other is a mid tier smarthpone chip and weak tablet offering. By the time Ontario is shipping in anything- A4 and Tegra2 will be entry level smart phone parts.

I agree with what you are saying. Comparing x86 Moorestown to ARM is already controversy enough (and both of those are well below 1 watt). Ontario is a far more powerful chip with up to 18 watts power consumption.

What interests me most is how well these low power SOCs/Mobile OSes could compete economically against other low cost products like "Ontario" coupled to a more expensive MS OS?

Cheap Hardware (Ontario) + Expensive Software (MS OS/MS Office) vs. Cheap Hardware (ARM SOC) + Cheap Software (Mobile OS/Mobile Apps)
 
Last edited:

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
67
91
Comparing x86 Moorestown to ARM is already controversy enough (and both of those are well below 1 watt).

Useage numbers I have seen for Moorestown are closer to 1.5Watts- too much to watch a single movie on my phone(or any other phone that I am aware of). I think I can watch ~3ish movies on my current phone for general point of reference. Intel's own claims peg Moorestown as using 1.1Watts for video playback, which means you would need a 2200mAh battery to watch a movie(to the best of my knowledge, noone is shipping a battery that large in a phone by default).

What interests me most is how well these low power SOCs/Mobile OSes could compete economically against other low cost products like "Ontario" coupled to a more expensive MS OS?

On what terms? If you are talking about a Netbook is something wildly different from a Tablet or smart/superphone. MS could offer to pay me $300 to use their current mobile OS and I wouldn't even consider it. For the record, I liked Vista; never had any problems with it that had anything to do with the OS- in general I have been extremely happy with MS's desktop products. In the ultra mobile space, outside of the Zune, MS has been terrible. It really isn't a matter of cost, they just suck.

Cheap Hardware (Ontario) + Expensive Software (MS OS/MS Office) vs. Cheap Hardware (ARM SOC) + Cheap Software (Mobile OS/Mobile Apps)

Again, I would say you are looking at two very different markets altogether. I don't see the ultraportable space being good for anything like Office. In the larger portable market, MS already dominates. If we are talking about tablets versus netbooks, I see tablets as rapidly increasing in popularity mainly revolving around entertainment and convenience factors. Excel data mining is still going to be done best on a desktop; no matter how much power you have- larger monitor+mouse/KB wins for a wide variety of tasks, no amount of computing power is going to change that in the forseeable future.

I guess what I'm getting at, are you talking about the ultraportable, tablet or netbook market? They are three rather clearly distinct markets each having differing requirements.
 

Dribble

Platinum Member
Aug 9, 2005
2,076
611
136
What about snapdragon - if you want to include the apple soc why not include their main competitor?

AMD ontario doesn't belong in this poll - it's in a completely different class. I presume it's just there to stop the fanboys whining.

Intel what?
 
Last edited:

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
67
91
What about snapdragon - if you want to include the apple soc why not include their main competitor?

Don't forget OMAP and XScale. Between the 4 currently popular offerings I would take OMAP over the others(Tegra2 would be the ideal choice currently IMO, just trying to find a decent phone that uses it is the challenge).
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
221
106
AMD ontario doesn't belong in this poll - it's in a completely different class. I presume it's just there to stop the fanboys whining.

Well I included it because I was am interested in seeing how the netbook vs Tablet war will pan out? http://techcrunch.com/2010/06/17/forrester-tablets-outsell-netbooks/

It could be that Ontario really gives a good boost to the netbook class.

What about snapdragon - if you want to include the apple soc why not include their main competitor?

My mistake. I should have included that as one of the choices.
 
Last edited:

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
67
91
It looks like Android 3.0 will be supporting 1280x760 resolution.

2.0 can already handle 1080p-

http://blog.laptopmag.com/vega-tabl...-2-0-tegra-processor-make-a-sweet-combination

A demo video of that in action-

http://www.slashgear.com/icd-vega-and-ultra-android-tablets-hands-on-video-0869180/

Only time will tell if we see a transformation of these devices into true netbook competitors.

I'm seeing a likely split in that market segment, Netbooks taking productivity minded users with Tablets taking entertainment focused ones. If that pans out how I'm seeing it, the GPU war will be for the tablet space in terms of margins(not likely Netbook users are going to want say, Tegra4 for Word docs). Ontario could really boost the power of a Netbook device, but in the face of something like the above? Which would you rather view movies/stream media/game on? ;)