Tablets for A4 PDF reading - Why You've been lied to

[Belegost]

I'm utterly baffled by this A4 business. I have rarely, if ever, seen printed books in that format, smaller pages are much more common. To demonstrate I grabbed a selection of books from my office shelves - note, these are technical books with lots of diagrams and illustrations. Along with them I put my Touchpad which is my primary e-reader.

Only one book is noticeably larger than my Touchpad, and the Cognition book is the largest book on my shelves, Digital Signal processing is the second largest. So I see no size advantage to printed books here.



As for weight, let me tell you, all the books were heavier than the touchpad, and the touchpad is already a heavy device (iPad 1 weight), so no advantage to books again.

As for storage, I have over 300 books currently on my touchpad, plus most of my ebooks are available to read in my browser, on my smartphone, on my wife's iPad, etc. Physical books require that I physically have them. And with my total book collection (physical+ebook) coming up on 1000 volumes (who knows, maybe more now), the shelf space issue starts to become a real problem, my 6.5ft x 2.5 ft shelves at home probably hold around 100-(maybe)200 books, and I currently have 3 of them fully loaded plus several boxes of old books. Finding space for 7 or 8 book cases would be a definite issue. Advantage e-reader again.

As for retention of knowledge - what the eff? Unless you can come up with studies showing a difference I'm going to call shenanigans. I have never noticed a difference in my personal retention between reading things on a screen and reading them on paper. Those who like the annotate their material may find a difference, but I have never felt the need to markup my books.

As far as I'm concerned tablets and e-readers met or exceeded the requirements to replace books about 3 years ago, and have continued to advance. Making up nonsense A4 format requirements that printed books don't meet to disqualify e-readers is silliness.

Megamox, if printing everything out at A4 works for you, fine, I could not care less really. But trying to convince everyone else of the superiority of your unique method is not going to work out.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

I think he must be a shill or something...this same screed has been posted elsewhere

TabletPC

CNet

 

[AstroManLuca]

You know you're pathetic when you have to cross post the same nonsensical rant across multiple forums.

 

[CuriousMike]

When I buy an e-book from Google Play or Amazon, I don't have an option to print it.

Are there stores online that let you buy PDF copies of their books that you can print?

 

[s44]

This is the funniest crank thread I've read in years.

 

[Megamox]

For those who asked, I am aware of Sony's 13.3 Mobius Digital Paper effort (it was mentioned in the first post), however, having reviewed it at CES it is almost 4 times the weight of anything I deem comfortable (360g). After 12 minutes I was tired of holding it, which was lucky as the handlers were eager to have it back. Also - while not one of the main criteria listed above, but part of my own 'Extra needs', the 150 ppi is pretty lacking when it comes to anything above a fairly moderate PDF experience. Sony's goal, as I've understood it, means none of this is an issue as it's purely for business an academic settings. If you're interest is peaked by this however, keep your eyes out for the Onyx 13.3 offering which should be released in the next six months to a year. Personally, as part of my own criteria I would not consider a device with less than 250 ppi.

Answers to a few questions:
1) Why the preoccupation with A4?
If something works well with A4 - it automatically will accommodate all sizes below and up to this. My dream machine is, automatically, all of your dream machines too.

2) Why quote 100g when books already weigh more than this?
Call me crazy but I thought technology was supposed to IMPROVE my reading experience, not simply replicate it. If I'm going to buy something dedicated to reading why does making it as light as possible seem to be at odds with some of you. 100g is the perfect weight for holding reading material for 2hrs+.

3) Devices already exist with 4/5 of the attributes you've stated, whats the problem?
The running theme through my posts is that the size of the reader should be A4. While I do accept some compromises can be made, I meant in general I'd be willing to look at readers that may have had to sacrifice the MP3 element, some leeway with dimensions of width etc. I would not consider any device below at least 10" to match, or nearly match my criteria. Less than 10" is a deal breaker.

4) Books don't come in A4 - why do you insist on printing things out to an unfamiliar format?
Books come in all sizes, and while A4 publications arent the norm, there is a font size of text which feels more comfortable to read. Sure I can squint at font 8, but I'd rather bask in font 12 and up. Don't be afraid to dream a little bigger darlings.

5) Are there enough people with your criteria for manufacturers to ever make such a niche device?
Maybe. I can only specify my requirements and wait and see. In the meantime, my reading experience with paper is quite beautiful.

6) Why don't you just buy the books?
I have quite a library in book and digital form. The digital form is what primarily concerns me.

7) What are the downsides of your unique choice of reading style?
I only have access to the pages in my hand and cannot refer easily to other sections of the book. Is this frustrating? Sometimes. Is it as frustrating as navigating the minefield of tablet technology, rooting procedures, system updates, crashes, system lag, software conflicts, sd card and storage management, screen freezes, constantly worrying about battery consumption, dead pixels, tinting and an almost OCD preoccupation with swiping home screens as fast as possible to keep an eye on system performance?. Not even close. I'd also prefer to go through life without having to learn the names of more of the latest generation of CPU's which sound so cool, but mean absolutely nothing. Give me a device that works, not a list of tecchy acronyms that are supposed to comfort me while it doesn't work. Exynos? Adreno? .. Really? No Thanks, Keep your hipster terms. I'd actually prefer a Works-Straight-Out-Of-the-box-ynos (c).

Sure my standards are pretty high. The question you might need to ask yourself is - why aren't yours?

 

[Fardringle]

(paraphrased) I know what I want and everyone else is wrong because you don't want the same thing, even though what I want is impractical in every way, not technically or economically feasible right now, and completely opposite what the vast majority of people want in a reading experience.

It really is fine if you want to read on a large screen or large printed pages. The fact is that most people don't want to (and don't want big printed pages either). And since there isn't a market for what you want, it's unlikely you're ever going to find something that will meet all of your requirements.

You say that your standards are high and that ours should be, too. My standards ARE high, which is why I have a device with close to 400dpi resolution, a bright, sharp picture and gorgeous colors, and is fantastic for reading, web browsing, watching movies, listening to music, and even playing some games, and it fits right into my pants or jacket pocket.

I say that your standards are either simply your own personal preference (which is fine) or specifically chosen in order to be impossible so you can create an argument. Either way, you're not going to convince many (or any) people that printing and carrying large sheets of paper, or carrying and holding a large, heavy, inconvenient, and extremely tiring device (even a super light device would make your wrists tired due to the large amount of leverage from the larger size) is something that everyone should want..

 

[Belegost]

For those who asked, I am aware of Sony's 13.3 Mobius Digital Paper effort (it was mentioned in the first post), however, having reviewed it at CES it is almost 4 times the weight of anything I deem comfortable (360g). After 12 minutes I was tired of holding it, which was lucky as the handlers were eager to have it back. Also - while not one of the main criteria listed above, but part of my own 'Extra needs', the 150 ppi is pretty lacking when it comes to anything above a fairly moderate PDF experience. Sony's goal, as I've understood it, means none of this is an issue as it's purely for business an academic settings. If you're interest is peaked by this however, keep your eyes out for the Onyx 13.3 offering which should be released in the next six months to a year. Personally, as part of my own criteria I would not consider a device with less than 250 ppi.

Answers to a few questions:
1) Why the preoccupation with A4?
If something works well with A4 - it automatically will accommodate all sizes below and up to this. My dream machine is, automatically, all of your dream machines too.

Wrong. Portability is a factor, and carrying around an A4 sized sheet of glass is not convenient. I would not buy an e-reader that large, so your dream machine is the antithesis of mine.

2) Why quote 100g when books already weigh more than this?
Call me crazy but I thought technology was supposed to IMPROVE my reading experience, not simply replicate it. If I'm going to buy something dedicated to reading why does making it as light as possible seem to be at odds with some of you. 100g is the perfect weight for holding reading material for 2hrs+.

Source for 100g being perfect? The point is that existing e-readers are already lighter than most books, so it's already an improvement.

3) Devices already exist with 4/5 of the attributes you've stated, whats the problem?
The running theme through my posts is that the size of the reader should be A4. While I do accept some compromises can be made, I meant in general I'd be willing to look at readers that may have had to sacrifice the MP3 element, some leeway with dimensions of width etc. I would not consider any device below at least 10" to match, or nearly match my criteria. Less than 10" is a deal breaker.

4) Books don't come in A4 - why do you insist on printing things out to an unfamiliar format?
Books come in all sizes, and while A4 publications arent the norm, there is a font size of text which feels more comfortable to read. Sure I can squint at font 8, but I'd rather bask in font 12 and up. Don't be afraid to dream a little bigger darlings.

Well, the font size is adjustable, I adjust it larger when I'm in bed reading without my glasses. And we already discussed how an A4 device is one I would not want, so I'll feel free not to dream bigger.

5) Are there enough people with your criteria for manufacturers to ever make such a niche device?
Maybe. I can only specify my requirements and wait and see. In the meantime, my reading experience with paper is quite beautiful.

6) Why don't you just buy the books?
I have quite a library in book and digital form. The digital form is what primarily concerns me.

7) What are the downsides of your unique choice of reading style?
I only have access to the pages in my hand and cannot refer easily to other sections of the book. Is this frustrating? Sometimes. Is it as frustrating as navigating the minefield of tablet technology, rooting procedures, system updates, crashes, system lag, software conflicts, sd card and storage management, screen freezes, constantly worrying about battery consumption, dead pixels, tinting and an almost OCD preoccupation with swiping home screens as fast as possible to keep an eye on system performance?. Not even close. I'd also prefer to go through life without having to learn the names of more of the latest generation of CPU's which sound so cool, but mean absolutely nothing. Give me a device that works, not a list of tecchy acronyms that are supposed to comfort me while it doesn't work. Exynos? Adreno? .. Really? No Thanks, Keep your hipster terms. I'd actually prefer a Works-Straight-Out-Of-the-box-ynos (c).

Who the hell says you have to act like a OCD crackhead to be happy with an ereader/tablet? I bought my Touchpad during the fire sale nearly 3 years ago, it works for what I need, and I haven't bothered about it much since. I drop it on the wireless charger at night, and that's about all the more maintenance or worry I have.

Certainly seems like a lot less than needing to print out the next section of the book I'm reading, make sure I have the right pages, in the right order all the time, constantly be worried about toner levels, and drum wear on the printer. It's easy to come up with nonsense worries if you want...

Sure my standards are pretty high. The question you might need to ask yourself is - why aren't yours?

Your arrogant assumption that because my needs/wants are not your needs/wants implies you have "higher" standards somehow is just asinine. Especially when combined with your self-centered suggestion that your dream machine is everyone's dream machine, completely ignoring multiple people in this thread stating the contrary.

 

[rootlesstree]

this is my first post and also my first thread I've read so far here and i can't stop laughing at this kind of weird fetish =))

 

[Ancalagon44]

You know I completely agree with you. The problem is, I just don't like the way that modern inkjet printers work. They completely screw up books - they lose a lot of fine detail that the author intended. I can't believe you would be comfortable reading from A4 paper printed using a modern inkjet, but I suppose I'm just not willing to compromise on the reading experience.

The only paper that I will read from is paper that has been printed using my vintage Gutenberg press. They really did it better in those old days. I got my original press at an auction, and restored it over a period of 2 years. They say it is one of the ones that Gutenberg himself used. Anyway, it prints BEAUTIFULLY. You have never seen books come alive like this. It's incredible. That inkjet that you are using looks terrible in comparison, I can guarantee it. It's like the difference between a Sony AV receiver and and a Marantz AV receiver - it's massive.

Anyway, it takes me a couple of days to print each book. I need to layout each page by hand, print it, and then change the printing setup. But man, is it worth it! It's just so much better than modern commercial printers, I can't even explain it to you. You have to see it with your own eyes, to understand what you are missing.

 

[gorcorps]

... My dream machine is, automatically, all of your dream machines too...

lol, wow

I think we're done here guys. Best not to feed the troll anymore

 

[Megamox]

Thanks for the comments, I do read and appreciate them. Just thought I'd share an anecdote of my journey into work this morning. While London's underground train network (locally referred to as the 'Tube') had been upgraded for the 2012 Olympics, everyday users will tell you that behind all that jazz it's still woefully archaic, hot, cramped and squalid. Thankfully It's not all bad though, this is only true when it's open. The rest of the time, it's on strike.

Like normal, I find myself in the carriage pressed up against other passengers in a level of intimacy usually only reserved for married couples. However this does allow me to observe the reading habits of my fellow tube sufferers, all sporting various gadgets from Ipads to kindles. Perfect for the topic under discussion.

The tube really is the perfect testing ground for such devices. If you can enjoy a quality reading experience through the horrendous rocking motions, the blare of the overhead lights, the sweltering heat, and participation in what feels like a giant game of carriage twister, you're really on to a winner.

From my vantage point I do spot an Ipad user next to me, a rather tall gentleman probably heading into the financial district judging by his attire and brogue combination. Must be a stressful day ahead as he's already playing Flappy Bird. Swapping over now to a digital newspaper, he raises the tablet just inches from his face and I see him trying to make out what looks like the issues of the day, albeit in font 8. Unfortunately due to the lack of space around him, he has barely enough space to hold it and has to tilt the tab respectfully. As the heavy lights bear down on him, I can already tell he's a level 6 grand wizard in reflection management, effortlessly finding the perfect angle to read the parts of the screen which dont appear like a pristine mirror.

I make the bold, and not to be recommended decision, of asking him how he finds reading on his device - as to me it seems like a chore. The antics in the carriage mean he's only left with one hand to hold the device, the other desperately holding on to the rail to keep from being thrown against the carriage sides. He has to judge his page swipes in line with when he feels the train is going to wobble less, so he can quickly let go of the rail, swipe, and then grab it again. This could become an olympic sport one day.

Despite this, he tells me he enjoys it and the Ipad is the only superior device for comfortable reading. I'm not convinced so I offer a brief swap - his pad for my stack. After quickly scanning my face for signs of criminality, he relucantly agrees. I really want to love the Ipad, I do, but it is far too difficult to read a full page of anything serious on, clearly. Of course, the fractal crack running across the screen end to end doesnt help. By this time he's absorbed in my reading material to such an extent that I'm worried I might not get it back. His final remarks however - he wouldnt trade in his device because it's far too useful for him. However for reading, at least in that situation, paper wins. The lady behind us, now inviting herself into the conversation, agrees, waving her newspaper to emphasise the point and inadvertently fanning us both in the process. She wouldnt trade it in for a tablet either apparently. Another man, with what looks like to be a kindle on the other side of our clique goes one better, No way! I've read more books on this than I have in my entire lifetime, he exclaims - holding up a miniature device that looks like it should live in a lady's purse. I'm guessing he means epubs, because PDF reflow on any device is poor in my experience, unless he's using a newer version of k2pdfopt on steroids.

Meanwhile the train shudders to a halt at the next stop and after our impromptu gang has rearranged, I offer the same swap to Mr Kindle - Now interested in his opinion of the two experiences. Of course this is better, he says, it's paper! But can you fit all your books into your pocket like I can? Sadly not I admit. Can you search through your books to find any reference? Again I'm resigned to admitting defeat. Can you read several books at the same time? I Shake my head once again to indicate another no. Luckily though I muse, not having ADD issues myself, none of those habits seem common to my lifestyle. Have you got anything in that electrical talisman that resembles a complicated diagram? I enquire, sure he says. After a few moments he shows me what looks like an pen drawn illustration of Sherlock Holmes. Heady from his apparant victory, he offers to zoom in for more detail which it seems to do fairly well, if a little clunkily. The smile on his face only evaporating as the device yields to its limit, displaying an out of memory message and then locking up completely. Twenty-first century technology it seems, may have trouble rendering Eighteenth century literature. Pity.

Before he leaves we have a brief discussion on the irony regarding people who buy ever increasing television screens (50"+ and up), yet defiantly object when you suggest that 6" is far too small for an enriching reading experience. Sure you can enjoy Fight Club on an old 14" cathode ray tube from the 60's - but the question is, why would you want to? As for me, I fold my stapled 20 or so pages and slide them into my coat before leaving the carriage. I'm left with the memory of what I consider to be the summary of my morning's experience. Of course it's better.. it's paper.

 

[Fardringle]

Reading on an iPad is not particularly pleasant. It's too big, awkward, and heavy to hold in one hand.

Reading on a phone is also not always pleasant. The text is either too small, or has to be zoomed in, leaving room for only a few paragraphs at a time on the screen.

Reading on a device designed to be a reader (a 7" or 8" Kindle, for example) however, is a VERY pleasant experience. It's light, easy to hold and manipulate, the screen is sharp and perfect for text, it holds as many books as I want it to, and it also happens to be pretty much exactly the same size as the page of a real printed book. Reading on my 7" Nexus is slightly less perfect, but the Nexus gives me all of the other advantages of a tablet so it is easily worth the very slight loss of text clarity compared to an E Ink device.

If you frequent the Large Print section of your library, then a bigger reading device may be the right choice, but for everyone else, your fantasy "ideal" is not only not an ideal, but something most of us would not want to use even if it was free.

 

[Fardringle]

You know I completely agree with you. The problem is, I just don't like the way that modern inkjet printers work. They completely screw up books - they lose a lot of fine detail that the author intended. I can't believe you would be comfortable reading from A4 paper printed using a modern inkjet, but I suppose I'm just not willing to compromise on the reading experience.

The only paper that I will read from is paper that has been printed using my vintage Gutenberg press. They really did it better in those old days. I got my original press at an auction, and restored it over a period of 2 years. They say it is one of the ones that Gutenberg himself used. Anyway, it prints BEAUTIFULLY. You have never seen books come alive like this. It's incredible. That inkjet that you are using looks terrible in comparison, I can guarantee it. It's like the difference between a Sony AV receiver and and a Marantz AV receiver - it's massive.

Anyway, it takes me a couple of days to print each book. I need to layout each page by hand, print it, and then change the printing setup. But man, is it worth it! It's just so much better than modern commercial printers, I can't even explain it to you. You have to see it with your own eyes, to understand what you are missing.

Excellent analogy! And funny, too!

 

[WelshBloke]

Reading on an iPad is not particularly pleasant. It's too big, awkward, and heavy to hold in one hand.

Reading on a phone is also not always pleasant. The text is either too small, or has to be zoomed in, leaving room for only a few paragraphs at a time on the screen.

Reading on a device designed to be a reader (a 7" or 8" Kindle, for example) however, is a VERY pleasant experience. It's light, easy to hold and manipulate, the screen is sharp and perfect for text, it holds as many books as I want it to, and it also happens to be pretty much exactly the same size as the page of a real printed book.

I'd agree completely there. The eInk kindles are in a league of their own for reading novels.

OP, where are you getting these reams of PDFs that you need to print out and read? I've got an image of you buying novels, razoring the pages apart, scanning them and then reprinting them at A4.

 

[02ranger]

I just recently got a copy of a book in PDF format that is no longer in print and I can't find anywhere. Because it's difficult to read the PDF on my tablet due to the size of the pages (they have HUGE margins) I printed the book out on regular letter paper. I know it isn't the same as A4, but I can't stand reading this way. It's uncomfortable, heavy, easy to lose pages or get them out of sequence, easy to tear up, it's just a huge pain for me. If you're happy reading like this OP, then more power to you, but I just can't see it.

 

[Megamox]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YzBoEs0B1o&list=UL
Isn't she beautiful? Now that, if light enough, would be a paper replacement product...

 

[wilds]

Why not virtual reality? future versions of oculus rift will have a high enough PPI to have a good full screen environment without seeing pixels. It could be pretty cool.