T1 to Internet for On-Line Gaming

[bpatters69]

First some quick background on me. I work for a major RBOC and I sell network services to businesses. I have been in the industry for 8 years now. YIPES!

I have a customer who is considering a T1 into his house so that he can get an edge for a Navy Seal Internet game. The game as I understand it is a first person sim where you can fight against other players on-line. Most of the games have either DSL or Cable. The customer thinks that by installing a dedicted T1, he will be able to see his opponents sooner which would give him a signifigant advantage.

My first thought is that a T1 would be overkill (Yes, we sales people have a conscience). I have to think that today's games are adapted to maximize DSL and Cable. The T1 may be faster but he would not notice any difference. If anything, the customer may see a difference with DSL since the upload speed is best effort 256. Not sure if cable is synchronous. T1 is full duplex but unless he is sending and receiving larger files at the same time, who cares. Right?

Your thoughts?

Thanks, Bill

 

[PTCvette]

T1 seems like a lot of overkill for freakin internet gaming... I have standard old DSL at 1.5 down / 256 up, and does everything just fine. The only exception to this is if I am hosting a game, then I could really use more upstream. I know on xbox it seems like hosting a game on xbconnect generally takes about 8-10k/sec per person on your server to run smoothly... I can reasonably host about 3 people max before I start seeing any lag. Most of the cable people around here have more upstream than my connection, and there are faster DSL services, but I am too far in the boonies to get either one.

 

[ZickZJ]

Well usually its your download speed that makes a bigger difference unless your hosting a game server.

FYI, T1 is 1.54Mbps and I'm running Cable at 3Mbps w/ I believe either 256 or 384 upload speed and my internet gaming is really good.


BTW, what does this T1 line cost?

 

[MadEmperor]

Many cable companies have a second tier of cable internet. Adelphia has powerlink premere for $59.00/m 4m / 600kb

I enjoy it quite a bit.

 

[martind1]

no. wont help him much. he still has to receive the information from the other computers.


it would however help him if he was hosting the game, and wnated a ton of players.

 

[Sideswipe001]

Originally posted by: martind1
no. wont help him much. he still has to receive the information from the other computers.


it would however help him if he was hosting the game, and wnated a ton of players.

Yep. Agreed. Hosting would be much improved. And in some games, the host does get a slight (split second) advantage.

 

[bpatters69]

Thanks for the supplies so far.

Someone had a question about hosting a game. He does host games. I think he mentioned that he has an X-Box as well. He said it had a 330Mhz processor. I don't know how that translates in the Intel world.

Someone asked about what a T1 to the internet costs. I have seen rates as low as $500 up to $750 on the street. I am sure everyone understands that carrier A can oversell their Internet so that they can offer a lower price. The real carriers offer an SLA on throughput, uptime and time between HOPS. Like anything else. You pay $500 or less and you get what you pay for. I am not saying it won't work but the comparison is not apples for apples.

 

[bpatters69]

Originally posted by: Sideswipe001

Originally posted by: martind1
no. wont help him much. he still has to receive the information from the other computers.


it would however help him if he was hosting the game, and wnated a ton of players.

Yep. Agreed. Hosting would be much improved. And in some games, the host does get a slight (split second) advantage.

Hey, just re-read your response. A one second advantage may be huge. The guy who was asking gets real competitve. He makes money off of his playing somehow.

No offense but how sure are you of your answer? Since he has an X-Box, would the X-Box be the bottleneck? More bandwidth on the WAN is great but if your equipment can't keep up, what does it matter? Thanks, Bill

 

[Garion]

OK, my two cents..

Typically, a T1 is a service aimed at companies, not at individuals. As such, it's typically built on a more robust Internet infrastructure with more available bandwidth. For example, the ISP might have 1 T1 circuit to the Internet servicing 3 T1's to customers whereas a cable company might have 1 T1 to the Internet servicing 30 users on cable modems. This very much depends on the provider, however.

The result of this is that a T1 connection is typically more consistent and won't "lag" quite so much. Granted, if the guy hosting the game is running it on his 128K DSL, it's probably not going to make a bit of difference.

In general, most games will run fine with at least 56Kb/s of bandwidth. What gamers need is very low latency. Latency is the amount of time it takes a request/command/packet/etc. to go from your PC, across the Internet to the destination. A modem can often have 200+ms of latency. I'd guess that moving from a cable/DSL to a T1 will probably reduce average latency by ~20%. This doesn't mean that things will show that much faster.

Here's something to do, for testing. Have the guy go out and get Ping Plotter (find it at download.com) and run a ping to his favorite destination game server. It'll show him how much variety there is in the connection and how long it takes. You can then run the same app, across your company's Internet connection and figure out the difference, being sure to include the latency the T1 circuit would add.

Lastly. A T1 is 1.5Mb/s up AND down. If he's hosting a game, that's important. Many home broadband circuits are capped at 128-256Kb/s upstream. That won't host too many players and people will start to see delays. A T1 is DEFINITELY better for hosting games.

You know, the best way to sell him on it is to explain that, when you host the games, you get absolutely the fastest response time, as you don't have to traverse the Internet to get to the game server. You'll probably get about 1/10th of a a second out of it.

- G

 

[martind1]

the bottle neck is the other players. It really will not give him split second advantage or anything.

if there is any advantage its negligible

 

[vi edit]

Anybody looking to spend 5x to 15x the monthly recurring cost for a T1 over a consumer level product either has:

1) serious issues
2) more money than brains

Yes, it will more than likely "give him an edge"...but does he want to pay 10x(or more) the amount a month for that?

Not to mention he'll need to pick up a router with a CSU/DSU card and have it programmed...that's anywhere from $800 to $1500 depending on what make/model you go for...plus programming fees.

 

[PTCvette]

Originally posted by: bpatters69
Someone had a question about hosting a game. He does host games. I think he mentioned that he has an X-Box as well. He said it had a 330Mhz processor. I don't know how that translates in the Intel world.

The xbox actually has a P3-733Mhz intel chip in it.... Not much you can do about the system though, everyone is stuck with the same hardware, so any noticable difference on Xbox/PS2/etc is going to be in the connection, not the console. The PC could be a different story if he's running old junk...

As far as the line goes, I seriously think that for the cost, he would be better off with a good cable connection or one of the higher end DSL lines. As others mentioned, the T1 would help for hosting large games, but that's about it.

Jeff

 

[dc5]

sell it to him. it will improve our economy.

 

[bpatters69]

Thanks all for your responses. I pretty much explained the same thing to him. I agree on the poster who said something about money and issues. A T1 vs. cable or DSL does seem like overkill. Then again if he is hosting games and he really can make some decent $$, maybe a T1 is justifiable. I will bet he has not considered the equipment cost in his buy T1 scenario. You mention a CSU\DSU, he will also need a router which will set him back a couple of grand as well. Equipment-wise, I bet he has to spend $2 to 3$k.

Thanks, Bill

 

[vi edit]

You can pick up Siemens/Efficient routers w/ CSU/DSU cards already in them for about $700. If you go with cisco you are looking at about $1200-$1500 for an entry level one.

Then you want to put in a firewall, which is about $300 for an entry level one by Netgear. You can do it for under a grand if you wanted to.

Point still remains, I think he's insane doing this for gaming only. Out of curiosity, what would be the monthly recurring on the circuit?

 

[Sideswipe001]

Originally posted by: bpatters69

Originally posted by: Sideswipe001

Originally posted by: martind1
no. wont help him much. he still has to receive the information from the other computers.


it would however help him if he was hosting the game, and wnated a ton of players.

Yep. Agreed. Hosting would be much improved. And in some games, the host does get a slight (split second) advantage.

Hey, just re-read your response. A one second advantage may be huge. The guy who was asking gets real competitve. He makes money off of his playing somehow.

No offense but how sure are you of your answer? Since he has an X-Box, would the X-Box be the bottleneck? More bandwidth on the WAN is great but if your equipment can't keep up, what does it matter? Thanks, Bill

My answer was based on experience playing Rouge Spear on a PC. The host of that game ALWAYS had an advantage, because his computer was the game server. When someone walked around a corner, for instance, he saw them a split second before the other guy saw him; because of the time required for his computer to send the updated info out to the other guy's computer didn't apply.

Not all games work on this model. But I firmly believe that if the game server is local (or on the same computer) that the host will have an advantage. Heck, I feel a difference in responsiveness when I host a game of Warcraft 3 compared to joining one. Less latency.

If he has the dough, he can find out for himself. I have no idea how Xboxes handle hosting.

 

[bpatters69]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
You can pick up Siemens/Efficient routers w/ CSU/DSU cards already in them for about $700. If you go with cisco you are looking at about $1200-$1500 for an entry level one.

Then you want to put in a firewall, which is about $300 for an entry level one by Netgear. You can do it for under a grand if you wanted to.

Point still remains, I think he's insane doing this for gaming only. Out of curiosity, what would be the monthly recurring on the circuit?

Street price for a T1 to the Internet with a backbone or tier 1 reseller averages between $500 to $700. I am assuming that the customer provider his\her own CPE.

 

[DainBrammage]

Dude, you ar not much of a salesman the guy asked for iot give it to him.
Obviously he has the money or he wouldn't even consider a T1.
I agree it overkill but an X-Box on a frigging T-1.....

Sell it to him and lock him in on a 2 yr aggreement.

A sucker is born every second

A fool and his money will soon part...


etc etc etc.

 

[wbresson]

round trip time *might* be faster on a T1 but of course round trip time on a cable connection might be even faster yet depending on the host.

 

[bpatters69]

Originally posted by: DainBrammage
Dude, you ar not much of a salesman the guy asked for iot give it to him.
Obviously he has the money or he wouldn't even consider a T1.
I agree it overkill but an X-Box on a frigging T-1.....

Sell it to him and lock him in on a 2 yr aggreement.

A sucker is born every second

A fool and his money will soon part...


etc etc etc.

Yeah, call me crazy but I try to do what is right for my customer's. Can't explain it other than its a personality flaw.

 

[Cyberclark]

If he can wait a little while it won't be long until Fiber comes to the home consumer.

Verizon is currently testing in Dallas, TX. And supposedly by the end of the year will be rolling it out in Tampa, FL and Southern Ca. markets.

Here is one article that talks about it: http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,116974,00.asp

So who knows by next year they may have it rolled out nationwide with bandwith up to 30mbps to the home for way less than the cost of a T1.

 

[ITJunkie]

Originally posted by: bpatters69

Originally posted by: DainBrammage
Dude, you ar not much of a salesman the guy asked for iot give it to him.
Obviously he has the money or he wouldn't even consider a T1.
I agree it overkill but an X-Box on a frigging T-1.....

Sell it to him and lock him in on a 2 yr aggreement.

A sucker is born every second

A fool and his money will soon part...


etc etc etc.

Yeah, call me crazy but I try to do what is right for my customer's. Can't explain it other than its a personality flaw.

Screw the above troll's comments BP, you are doing the right thing.

This guy may not totally understand what he is asking for. His start up costs for hardware and circuit set-up could easily put him in the 2 to 3K+ range. Your helping "the customer" choose the right product for their needs.

Nothing wrong with that. :beer:

 

[bpatters69]

Thanks, IT. I try to do the right thing.

 

[Polishwonder74]

Oooohhh baby, now you got me interested. So the bottom line would be like $1,500 - $2,000 in equipment to get started, and like $500 - $700 per month in fees?

I'm envisioning a server farm in my basement for CS, DoD, and BF1942. Do you think a shmuck like me living in a residential neighborhood could pull that off? I figure you're the guy to ask since you're a salesman and all.

Thanks for humoring me. Now I just need to get out of college and get a real job so I can make my dream come true.

 

[bpatters69]

Polishwonder,

Interesting name by the way.

To answer your questions, "yes", "yes" and "yes". How is that for a salesy answer? Each of your voice phone lines needs a single wire pair and a T1 requires two wire pairs. There is nothing to stop anyone in a residential area from getting a T1 delivered to their house. It is not the norm so it willl not get installed as quickly but from a practical\functional standpoint, it can be done.

Your start-up costs and monthly price are about right. The $500 to $700 monthly charge is based on service with a tier one backbone provider such as MCI, AT&T or Sprint. I have never priced out Level 3 or PSI Net which may be cheaper - just not sure if they are available in all areas. You can go with resellers and non-name brand carriers for less though. As always, you get what you pay for.

HTH, Bill