T-Mobile identifies and targets 'data hogs'

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
http://www.droid-life.com/2014/08/13/t-mobile-identifies-data-hogs-p2p/#more-147680

According to an internal memo obtained by TmoNews, T-Mobile has identified “data hog” users on its network, taking advantage of their unlimited 4G LTE data plan, who utilize their bandwidth for P2P sharing and file torrenting, inevitably lowering the LTE experience for other users on the network.

T-Mobile has sent the following statement to its employees, saying that a plan of action will begin starting August 17, as contact will be made to customers who are breaking the company’s Terms and Conditions.

As for which customers should worry about receiving a note from T-Mobile, plus a throttle down the road if data usage does not change on the user’s account, anyone with an older $70 unlimited plan or newer $80 Simple Choice plan who use their phone for P2P and file torrenting beyond a reasonable amount can expect to receive a notice.

Its pretty dumb to torrent with your phone. Clobbers the battery fast.
 

Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,233
234
106
I've got no issue with them going after people who are torrenting GBs of data on the mobile network. Save that stuff for Wifi.
 

corkyg

Elite Member | Peripherals
Super Moderator
Mar 4, 2000
27,370
239
106
Agree! Abusers need throttling for sure! They ruin it for the rest of us. :)
 

Ravynmagi

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2007
3,102
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81
Well, I can see why some might choose to abuse their unlimited cellular service.

Chances our their home DSL/Cable service does have a cap that is being enforced. And some data providers are pretty harsh about exceeding that data cap. They don't throttle you, they cancel your service. And when most of us live in markets with only 1 or 2 high speed providers, that's quite severe.

So they use their phone's unlimited service for P2P to avoid their home service getting the axe. At least with their phone service, it's not being enforced and when it does, the penalty will only be throttling, not death. And should death arrive, there are still 3 other major carriers and many MVNO's to go to.
 

bearxor

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2001
6,605
3
81
So why is everyone cool with this and not cool with VZW doing something similar for it's users that are (most likely) tethering?

I thought the whole argument of "They offered me unlimited so I can use it however I want" would apply to this as well.

Take note the release doesn't singly apply to people using P2P. It also states "and tethering outside of T-Mobile’s Terms and Conditions (T&C)." which would presumably mean those that have rooted their devices to install tethering applications to get around T-Mo's tethering limit.
 
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openwheel

Platinum Member
Apr 30, 2012
2,044
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If I pay for a buffet then I am going to eat as much as I want, in every shape of form. Why would they punish me for downing a piece of steak with milk?

With that said, yeah throttle those abusers. It is in their ToS when they signed up with TMobile.

However I can't stand this "tethering fee". Data is data. I would never pay for tethering so bite me.
 
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cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
So why is everyone cool with this and not cool with VZW doing something similar for it's users that are (most likely) tethering?

I thought the whole argument of "They offered me unlimited so I can use it however I want" would apply to this as well.

Take note the release doesn't singly apply to people using P2P. It also states "and tethering outside of T-Mobile’s Terms and Conditions (T&C)." which would presumably mean those that have rooted their devices to install tethering applications to get around T-Mo's tethering limit.

There's one thing though, there are Roms that remove the ability for the carrier to see how much you use via tethering. So it all looks normal like cellular data. The thing they can see is what protocol is being used. If it's a protocol from an application typically found on a PC that's a big red flag when you start getting into the 20GB/month range. That's no longer mobile data use there.

I have no problem if people decide they want to use their phone to stream movies, music, download movies or music, download games, download files from websites like roms and kernels and mods etc. I do have a problem with people eating 20+GB/month because they want to download and host torrents by tethering their PC to their phone.

I'm a pretty heavy user and I've tethered my Vita to my phone and I barely hit 12GB one month. I'm sure the people they are going to go after are using 50, 100, even 200GB easily by leaving stuff run all night.
 
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destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
So why is everyone cool with this and not cool with VZW doing something similar for it's users that are (most likely) tethering?

I thought the whole argument of "They offered me unlimited so I can use it however I want" would apply to this as well.

Take note the release doesn't singly apply to people using P2P. It also states "and tethering outside of T-Mobile’s Terms and Conditions (T&C)." which would presumably mean those that have rooted their devices to install tethering applications to get around T-Mo's tethering limit.

It annoys me because it's a fear of where they will draw the line.

Those Verizon unlimited users who use it as their home internet, and gobble up 50GB+ every month? Yeah, fuck em, throttle their asses.
Those of us who may use 5GB-10GB on some months, yet maybe even only 2 or 3GB the other months? I sure as hell don't want to see my data throttled.

I saw a figure that stated the average bandwidth usage for those in the top 5% would be pegged at a little under 5GB. So, while there are many 10GB+, 20GB+ data users, they might be the top 1%. The next few percent are taken up by under 10, perhaps even under 4GB.

Those users who use 5, 6, 7GBs on what is labeled unlimited, should hardly be punished for it. Those who use 20+, throttle for sure! (**IF NECESSARY** for congestion purposes, at that local cell site.)
I'll understand throttling 10GB regular users, if it absolutely has to be that way. I'd rather it not.
 

lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
13,310
687
126
They throttle the speed on my non-abusing prepaid account. Glad that they are taking actions on abusers but I hope they stop throttling legitimate bandwidth usage.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Well, I can see why some might choose to abuse their unlimited cellular service.

Chances our their home DSL/Cable service does have a cap that is being enforced. And some data providers are pretty harsh about exceeding that data cap. They don't throttle you, they cancel your service. And when most of us live in markets with only 1 or 2 high speed providers, that's quite severe.

So they use their phone's unlimited service for P2P to avoid their home service getting the axe. At least with their phone service, it's not being enforced and when it does, the penalty will only be throttling, not death. And should death arrive, there are still 3 other major carriers and many MVNO's to go to.

Got any information pointing to service cancelation?

I have never heard of cancelation - I have only ever heard of usage fees for additional blocks of data beyond the cap. Usually something like $10 for an additional 50GB block.

And while that's a personal usage justification, I hardly find fault with ISPs throttling such users. In fact, I'd gladly point out such users to mobile providers.
If you use so much data you run through your much larger allotment at home, don't ruin my mobile data service because you couldn't stream enough Netflix or torrent your blockbusters at home, and... gasp, how dare I just resign to cutting back until next month?!

If it's a one month a year type deal, okay... if it's routine, well, thanks a--holes. I've been away for field training and streamed and even tethered in order to do daily work, often for three weeks at a time, and never used more than 10GB. I do consciously try not to gobble up to my hearts content, so there's that to consider. I could stream more music or videos, but it was rare that I wanted to. Sometimes I didn't have the time, often I wouldn't have the signal; even when I did, I would be conservative... though it was mostly out of fear of making my account a target for Verizon to investigate.
 

Dulanic

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2000
9,965
590
136
Anyone who does torrents on their phones annoys me. They abuse the service at the cost of others. Sorry, there is no valid reason to do this IMO. As long as they go for the true abusers, I honestly don't care, I say go for them, they are the reason unlimited has been dying it's death.
 

lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
13,310
687
126
Even without P2Ps bandwidth usage of a few PCs are humongous by mobile standards.
 

Ravynmagi

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2007
3,102
24
81
Got any information pointing to service cancelation?

I have never heard of cancelation - I have only ever heard of usage fees for additional blocks of data beyond the cap. Usually something like $10 for an additional 50GB block.

And while that's a personal usage justification, I hardly find fault with ISPs throttling such users. In fact, I'd gladly point out such users to mobile providers.
If you use so much data you run through your much larger allotment at home, don't ruin my mobile data service because you couldn't stream enough Netflix or torrent your blockbusters at home, and... gasp, how dare I just resign to cutting back until next month?!

If it's a one month a year type deal, okay... if it's routine, well, thanks a--holes. I've been away for field training and streamed and even tethered in order to do daily work, often for three weeks at a time, and never used more than 10GB. I do consciously try not to gobble up to my hearts content, so there's that to consider. I could stream more music or videos, but it was rare that I wanted to. Sometimes I didn't have the time, often I wouldn't have the signal; even when I did, I would be conservative... though it was mostly out of fear of making my account a target for Verizon to investigate.

Centurylink canceled my DSL service due to excessive usage. They claim to have given me 3 warnings, but I only ever saw one of the warning. Their warning system is horrible, it redirects your browser to a warning page once. However it's only displayed once and if someone else in the house gets it and ignores it (likely thinking it's a fake warning message), then the account owner may never know of it. They never sent me an email or letter. So when I got canceled, it was a bit of a surprise, because there was also know way of checking how much data I'd used. Though I admit I am a heavy user and was probably guilty.

So I know first hand, ISPs will exercise their right to boot users.
 

Ravynmagi

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2007
3,102
24
81
Anyone who does torrents on their phones annoys me. They abuse the service at the cost of others. Sorry, there is no valid reason to do this IMO. As long as they go for the true abusers, I honestly don't care, I say go for them, they are the reason unlimited has been dying it's death.

I don't understand why we consider mobile data more precious than wired data? Why shouldn't someone use mobile data the same as they would wired data?

If a mobile network can't handle "unlimited" data, then don't sell unlimited data.
 

openwheel

Platinum Member
Apr 30, 2012
2,044
17
81
Exaxtly. Data is data. Dont sell all you can eat buffet if you cant cook the food fast enough.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Exaxtly. Data is data. Dont sell all you can eat buffet if you cant cook the food fast enough.
They sell you mobile data. Using your PC to download the newest tmnt movie on torrent and also upload it, is not mobile data usage.
 

stlc8tr

Golden Member
Jan 5, 2011
1,106
4
76
They sell you mobile data. Using your PC to download the newest tmnt movie on torrent and also upload it, is not mobile data usage.

So it's OK in your book to run a torrent client on a mobile Android device then?
 

openwheel

Platinum Member
Apr 30, 2012
2,044
17
81
So why is 1 okay while 2 is not? Makes no sense. Data is data.

1. streaming a youtube viddeo on my phone at a busy airport
2. Tethering to my TV to watch full HD movie inside my house in rural California.
 

openwheel

Platinum Member
Apr 30, 2012
2,044
17
81
They sell you mobile data. Using your PC to download the newest tmnt movie on torrent and also upload it, is not mobile data usage.
WTF is "mobile data"? I understand carriers got Americans by the balls, but that does not mean their price gouging is completely justified.

What's next? LTE fee? LTE advance surcharge? Social media fee? Data is data.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
I don't understand why we consider mobile data more precious than wired data? Why shouldn't someone use mobile data the same as they would wired data?

If a mobile network can't handle "unlimited" data, then don't sell unlimited data.

For most carriers, when they were selling unlimited plans, the market was a very different place. Smartphones were in their infancy, still in the realm of people with cash to burn, and most of the mobile web, Youtube, Netflix, etc, did not exist. They could afford to sell unlimited data to the relative handful of users with those devices. Today, children in elementary school have full smartphones and tablets, and you can kill a day on YouTube easily. Put in relative perspective 6 years ago, there were 10 people using unlimited plans. Today, there's 1,000,000 people on data plans.

Spectrum is a limited thing, unlike wired data.


WTF is "mobile data"? I understand carriers got Americans by the balls, but that does not mean their price gouging is completely justified.

What's next? LTE fee? LTE advance surcharge? Social media fee? Data is data.

Oh, those are coming. The death of net neutrality means they can and will charge you fees for social media, streaming video, etc. Sprint is already doing it with one of their prepaid plans.

But again, mobile data is limited by available spectrum. There's only so much to go around, which is part of the reason why Verizon's network is so overloaded. Adding more bandwidth to wired data is a matter of running more fiber or installing more line cards/switches.
 

openwheel

Platinum Member
Apr 30, 2012
2,044
17
81
Spectrum is a limited thing, unlike wired data.

This appears to be the base of your argument, but it is incorrect. Cable internet speed varies pending utilization among those who share the same copper.

I don't have a problem with big corporations trying to maximize profit. I do have a problem with the mis-conception that carriers have no other choice. If they choose to take money (increase revenue) by signing up millions of new subscribers, then they need to spend more money maintaining the same level of service. We go from unlimited data to a miserable 2gb. Something is wrong, and I can't believe people buy into this "data sharing" none-sense as if data is finite. Carriers need to actively acquire spectrum and build better infrastructure. The current state of radio deployment is a joke in the US.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
This appears to be the base of your argument, but it is incorrect. Cable internet speed varies pending utilization among those who share the same copper.

I don't have a problem with big corporations trying to maximize profit. I do have a problem with the mis-conception that carriers have no other choice. If they choose to take money (increase revenue) by signing up millions of new subscribers, then they need to spend more money maintaining the same level of service. We go from unlimited data to a miserable 2gb. Something is wrong, and I can't believe people buy into this "data sharing" none-sense as if data is finite. Carriers need to actively acquire spectrum and build better infrastructure. The current state of radio deployment is a joke in the US.

The current state of radio deployment is also one of the collectively most costliest in the developed world.

Listen, I am equally in favor of blaming the carriers, both landline and mobile, of being far too slow to roll out media of any type.

The cost of covering the USA, geographically the largest and most developed of any nation, is immense. (Russia, India, and China have minimal infrastructure development in great swaths of land.) Our average population density is small, and comparatively we have far more pockets of sizable population with high-quality infrastructure than anywhere else in the world.

This costs, immensely.

That said, they are also greedy, and because of the costs and loss of profits for continued investments and locking in future growth, they drag their feet. To serve more bandwidth to most cell sites, from the Tier 1 and Tier 2 providers, will cost far far more. And even then, those providers are also hurting to increase bandwidth throughout their networks.

They all desperately need to upgrade, but we do currently feel it the hardest at the consumer level. Our local ISPs could upgrade their interconnects more and offer more to us (for less, ideally) to win in more of us over time... but that kind of infrastructure investment will be immense.

More than anything, their infrastructure deployment is almost always slow to keep to within yearly free cash on the books. Once given a go, they'll slowly lay out lines across their first identified, and then second identified sites, over the course of quite a few slow years I reckon, prior to ever offering new service tiers.

It's a more endemic problem than simply our immediate ISPs just offering more.

The cell network is no where near as developed as the home ISP, and cannot offer the same service tiers as home providers, not remotely, not if the users willingly gobble it up if given, such as you who use it routinely for home use. Each local site can only handle so much, and their regional links are only so large, and their national links also only have so much allotment.

It is willingly separated from the "home use provider" network type due to it having an entirely separated network infrastructure and integrated into the national grid with different bandwidth contracts. So it should not be used to the degree one would regularly use the home user provider, unless you wish to be a prick to the rest of the populace who would like to ensure the network is always available at the speeds they are used to, even when they rarely use 2GB a month moving around cherished memories and not slinging netflix from their phone to their TV instead of using local network.

They need to invest, but they also have a right to regulate usage... to a certain extent.

Remember that the proliferation of cell sites enables a higher actually delivered speed than most people are willingly to pay for at home. So this makes it seem better, and more robust. That is not so. Locally they can provide a lot if the entire local user base isn't thrashing the network. So you might measure 40Mbps. That metro-level network, and likely regional interconnects, cannot provide for a large percentage of that total network all achieving that speed consistently. In bursts for everyone, it's easy. With half the network utilizing Netflix for home or media streaming, even if only demanding 5Mbps from the distant media server, still represents significant traffic when multiplied by the thousands if not tens or hundreds of thousands in larger regions.

As more young people who are apt to make use of these services are given access to these services, the bandwidth needs for societies is increasing exponentially, even still today. More young people = even more heavy users. It's becoming a part of society: heavy usage of media subscriptions such as VoD providers, more viewers using VoD from Netflix, more users of even the media networks online such as HBO GO, and high-bandwidth social favorites such as YouTube. The cost for American companies to keep up with this is truly astronomical. The profits to actually provide that to large percentages of our populace: even more astronomical.

It's going to be slow, it's always going to be slow. I don't think we could even get the type of progression desired even if the entire grid was government-owned. Local ISPs can be managed better when they are municipal utilities; I don't believe the government could better manage the overall network at the T1 and Tier 2 levels.
 

BarkingGhostar

Diamond Member
Nov 20, 2009
8,410
1,617
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I simply will never understand why a customer should be penalized for using a service they paid for as advertised. While I recognize the impact of the network at hand, it just goes to show that businesses want you to pay for something and not use it.

Why have unlimited plans to begin with? The feds should ban the use of UNLIMITED if the carriers are going to refuse to honor it. And not just on cellular networks. Fucking be honest for once! BTW, I am a TMo customer.