System for 3ds Max 2008

[Insomniator]

Hey guys just thought I'd ask here before my Dad buys some 3k dell.

His company needs a machine for 3ds max 2k8. Neither of us know crap about workstation graphics cards, and the actual users for this machine just want it to be fast. They do not know anything about the hardware either.

Dell quoted 3200 bucks for like a Dual Xeon system with 8 gigs and some Fire GL card. 3200 is out of the price range. We were thinking more along the lines of 2k, preferably less if he built it himself.

The motherboard must support raid, and I'd like it to be DDR2, as 8 gigs of DDR3 looks like it costs more than the actual company is worth.

I came up with (newegg prices),

Q9300 - 240
8 Gigs DDR 2 - 150
Foxconn P45 Board - 115 (only DDR 2 board with Raid)
FireGL 7600 - 730
2x WD 500 Gig drives - 115

Case, ~700 Watt PSU... like 200 more.

1600 total

Like I said this thing needs to fly as much as it can for 2 grandish. Would the Q6600 be a better choice? Is a 800 dollar graphics card really that much better than one for half the price?

thanks guys

 

[DSF]

You don't need a 700W PSU for that system. 450W-500W would be fine and dandy.

There are plenty of DDR2 P45 boards with RAID. Specifically which type of RAID were you looking to use?

 

[HumbleDan]

For 3D It's no brainer to go with the new i7 IMO. It'll be more productive. So go for the best CPU that's within the price range. And match the workstation graphics card to the resolution (monitor) and the size of the scene you'll be working in 3D Max. Workstation Graphic card has different driver to the gaming card and of course better support. But the card it self is similar to gaming card. So you should be able to judge what you need like what kind of card you need for certain game played at certain resolution and detail setting.

 

[Insomniator]

Its gonna be Raid 0, I just realized the Intel micro atx boards have Raid so thats all good. The DG33TLM looks good.

i7 is just too expensive and new. This machine has to be 100% stable which from what I've read is hard enough to achieve with 'conventional' components when using Maya and a workstation card. Do not want to spend 300 on a 1366 board and 500 on DDR3 memory and go through the inevitable troubleshooting and bugs that go along with brand new components.

I think they want the C2Q 9550, but the graphics card is really the main problem. The FireGL 5600 benchmarks well but then reading reviews on newegg people say they crawl while doing 3d work, overheat, and crash often.

 

[HumbleDan]

I see but in my experience CPU is what makes those 3D content creation apps fast. They are not 3D games where cheap CPU will do good enough job. Anyway I did some 3D work with Maya and NVIDIA integrated chipset. If you know what you are doing like how to optimise a scene, etc. You can get the work done even with complicated scene. But you might one to try one of the Quadro cards. Its NVIDIA workstation card. Even with workstation card there are limits and you really need to know how to work around those limits if not your scene will be slow. Also what is the rig you're using currently for 3D Max ?

 

[DSF]

Why RAID 0 on a machine that has to be 100% stable?

 

[heyheybooboo]

Combo Deal: $229

Asus M3A78-EM & Phenom 9950BE

Snag an HD3870 for around $100 .... Google ""FireGL Radeon soft mod""

I haven't checked lately to see if they have soft-modded the HD 48XXs yet - there have been rumahs about FireGL 'CrossFire mods' but I haven't kept up with them, either (so you may want to consider the Asus 790FX or 790GX with sb750 if you want a shot at a future FireGL CrossFire)

I've got a HD 2900pro soft-modded to a ATI FireGL V7600 ...

edit: I fergit ... IIRC you can RAID on the 780g even with the eSATA - not sure about either the 790 FX or GX ...

 

[wwswimming]

for journeying down the Max9 learning curve, this is what i'm using -
Q9550
micro-ATX motherboard - if i was going ATX size i'd get Asus P5Q Deluxe
OCZ Platinum 2 x 2 GB, x 2 (8 GB)
Windows XP64

video card - Sapphire 3870 - 512 MB memory, 256 bit bus

i started with CG in 1988 & have used a variety of workstations over the
years. including the expensive "FireGL" workstation graphics cards.

the problem with using a card like the 4850 or 4870 or equivalent
nVidia gaming cards is potential driver problems.

my experience is that gaming cards are just as fast as the expensive
workstation graphics cards. also that driver problems are a real hassle.

Nehalem has been out for a month. personally i prefer systems that
have more "road time" before i commit $$.

 

[Insomniator]

I mean stable in terms of compatibility really, Raid 0 is for performance obviously. Everything will be backed up on a server anyway so they don't care if a drive fails.

swimming, a 3870 is/was a gaming card less than a year ago, you are saying their are few(er) driver problems with that card compared to new ones?

Basically the specs will be the same as yours, just trying to determine what card is worth it. If a 700 dollar fireGL is really not much better than a 3870 then I see no reason to get it.....

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: Insomniator
I mean stable in terms of compatibility really, Raid 0 is for performance obviously. Everything will be backed up on a server anyway so they don't care if a drive fails.

swimming, a 3870 is/was a gaming card less than a year ago, you are saying their are few(er) driver problems with that card compared to new ones?

Basically the specs will be the same as yours, just trying to determine what card is worth it. If a 700 dollar fireGL is really not much better than a 3870 then I see no reason to get it.....

What you are dealing with is a number of things ....

Workstation cards have specific application drivers to increase performance. The level of performance increase will relate to a bunch of 'stuff' ... primarily OpenGL implementation of your application. Using a workstation card allows you access to these application-specific drivers.

What version of 3DSM will be operating on the machine? OpenGL was the basis for 3D modeling in previous versions and this is where you will gain the greatest benefit.

I found a discussion of the HD3870 'SoftFireGL' here at Guru3d. A list of the specific steps is here (note this is for the HD 26XXs but the modding procedure is essentially the same - follow the discussion in the first thread regarding the HD 3870 - some folks used the HD 3850s - and the specific FireGL workstation card 'mods' available to you ...)

These mods were done under XP-32-bit. There are discussions concerning '64-bit' implementation in the thread but I didn't follow them ...

 

[KGB]

Depending on which version od 3ds Max you are using, you'd better get a graphics adaptor which Autodesk supports (NOT modded).

Latest Link

Without a supported card, you will get NO support from Autodesk.

I've been there and done that.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Insomniator
8 Gigs DDR 2 - 150

May want to check here.

 

[sgrinavi]

I'm probably too late to help, I have been wrestling with this for years. Last night I broke down and ran some benchies Specapc for 3dsMax9 (about the same product as 2008).

The results surprised me

Using the XP64 system in my sig

Running in OGL mode:

HD4850 was a dog, taking over 1000 seconds to complete the tests

FireGL v7700 card came in second taking 952 seconds to complete the tasks.

HD3870 (512MB ddr4) with a SoftfireGL modran a tad faster: 910 seconds


Running in 3d3 mode:


V7700 card picked up some steam and came in at 755 seconds

HD4850 - stock settings 645 seconds

HD3870 - 619 seconds

HD4850 - 601 seconds (after manually set the card for "max performance")



SO, the best 3dsMAX bang/buck is 3d3 mode and a gamer card w/quality RAM..

I am going to try a crossfire setup tonight and may break bad and get another 4870 to play with....

 

[Modelworks]

I would not go with a pro card right now. The difference in viewports isn't really worth the cost unless you intend to be doing 10 million poly + scenes. Even then most gaming cards do well.
I do pro work and use a 8800GTS 640MB card, OpenGL setting and it works great. I even use it with mudbox 2009 with millions of polys on screen.

Really the only application I would go with a pro card in is something like solidworks.

 

[sgrinavi]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Really the only application I would go with a pro card in is something like solidworks.

I'm running a straight-up V7700 card on my ADT station. Makes a difference when I'm doing 3d work, very smooth.