Question System crash, need some help

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Bsmooth

Member
Nov 6, 2008
43
3
71
I have a pretty older system:
HD 500G|SEAGATE ST3500514NS %

(Added Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1TB 2.5 Inch SATA III Internal SSD) (2019)


MB ASROCK|P67 EXTREME4 (B3) P67 R


DVD BURN SAMSUNG | SH-S222A BK


VGA ASUS|ENGTX560 TI DCII TOP/2DI/1

Updated to EVGA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti SC GAMING, 4GB 5/7/2018


CPU COOLER CM| RR-B10-212P-G1


MEM 4Gx2|KST KHX1600C9D3K2/8GX


CASE ROSEWILL|CHALLENGER


PSU ANTEC|650W EA650


CPU INTEL|CORE I5 2500K 3.3G 6M


WIN 7 HOME PREM SP1 64BIT ENG (Updated to Win 10)


ASUS XONAR DG 5.1 CHANNELS PCI INTERFACE SOUND CARD
I'm afraid it doesn't play well with Win 10, it started crashing when we started having Win10 upgrades about a year ago, and with the newest it finally went into a looping crash that I just couldn't get out of.
I loaded up Win7 64 bit and its working OK now, but I need to upgrade and need some advice for components.
I would like to run at 1920x1080 on a 24 inch monitor eventually. Mostly run Assetto corsa,GPL and a few other racing games. Would also like to get a slightly smaller case that also has plenty of USB 2 ports, not USB 3(smaller blue ports).
Probably would like to stick with Intel, maybe Intel Core i5-11400.
Any help or other forums for a build would be greatly appreciated.
 

solidsnake1298

Senior member
Aug 7, 2009
302
167
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The Noctua cooler should come with a small tube of thermal paste. The pressure from mounting the heatsink will spread whatever size "dot" you apply. But if you don't apply enough it won't cover the whole CPU. Because of that, I usually recommend the "spread" method since it guarantees that you apply enough and it always covers the entire CPU.

I don't see any reason why any of the cables you have wouldn't work. SATA power and data connectors haven't changed. Case front panel connections haven't changed. Front USB/Audio connectors haven't changed.

You should be fine.
 
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Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
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DON'T get the B560 with the 10600K, you lose ability to have multiplier and higher memory performance.

Here's a Z590

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813145264?itemPosition=14-25&exactIndex=13

That noctua is out of stock and only 120mm single. Spend a tiny bit more and get the DH15 Chromax, you will be blown away by how good it is. You should be able to run cool and quiet at 5Ghz with it 👍 This gives performance better than stock 11900K gaming, with much better thermals and stable clocks.

https://www.newegg.com/noctua-nh-d15-chromax-black/p/13C-0005-001H5

And finally, to make a perfect match to a Z series and K CPU rig, get some better ram for like $10 more :


From 3200 to 3733 C16.

This combo will absolutely sizzle.
 
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Bsmooth

Member
Nov 6, 2008
43
3
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Its an i5-11600K, and the only reason I'm getting it its a bit cheaper. Wasn't planning on overclocking, Plus that B560 is one of the better rated motherboards, plus I think the B560 has front USB connectors for my case, not sure about the Z590 Motherboard for USB front ports.
Plus now I'm even more confused.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
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The Z590 is better even without overclock due to better Ram performance and compatibility. All modern motherboards have front USB 2 and 3 headers. Because the Z590 is aimed at overclocks and high core counts the VRM and power delivery are extremely good, especially for just a 6C/12T part.

Here's the exact same board with the optional Wireless AX (Aorus Elite same thing minus the WiFi)

 
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solidsnake1298

Senior member
Aug 7, 2009
302
167
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I feel like since Bsmooth said....

Its a bit of a cash outlay around $700,

...that pushing $10 more for better RAM and $10 more for a Z590 board is asking too much. They already seem uncomfortable spending $700, and still has to consider the cost of a graphics card down the line. Yes, purely from a spec perspective, the faster RAM and Z590 board are better. But they won't amount to much measureable, and definitely not noticeable, performance improvements. $20 to you may not be a lot, but it's not your money and you don't know their money situation.

IMO, stick with the B560 board, RAM, and cooler you already selected. The 11600K is a worthy thing to spend more on. The base clock is way higher than an 11400. Even if you got the 11400, it would still be a huge upgrade from what you have.

Oh, and just a side note, a Z590 has the same front panel USB connectors as the B560 board.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
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He could bump the Noctua for a 212 clone. I've run the 10600k at 5ghz under 70c with this one :


That gives room for the superior board and Ram.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
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What the premium for 3733 over 3600, though? Seems hardly worth it to bump up just one minor bit, when 3600 is fairly "standard" these days for performance RAM.

If going higher, then why not some Patriot Viper (Elite?) 4000 sticks?

Well, my reasoning was bumping up over 3200. 3600 or 3733 would both be great with a minor cost difference. 4000 is even better, but 4000 with good timings is $$.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
55,545
9,544
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Well, my reasoning was bumping up over 3200. 3600 or 3733 would both be great with a minor cost difference. 4000 is even better, but 4000 with good timings is $$.
Sorry, I missed that. I thought that you were aiming for "over 3600", and not simply "over 3200".

For Rocket Lake, I agree, go as high as your wallet will handle for DRAM freq.
 

Bsmooth

Member
Nov 6, 2008
43
3
71
Well both motherboards are now the same price at Newegg:
GIGABYTE Z590 AORUS ELITE LGA 1200 Intel Z590 ATX Motherboard $220

GIGABYTE B560 AORUS PRO AX LGA 1200 Intel B560 SATA 6Gb/s ATX $220

The Noctua Cooler is instock at 69.99 BTW
As far as memory I looked at the compatibility charts for the motherboards and the memory I have is native at 2666 even though its 3200 speed, does that mean it will only run at 2666 ? Weird part is the memory runs at the same native speed on either the B560 or the Z590.
Does that mean you have to go into the bios and set the speed of the memory?
 

solidsnake1298

Senior member
Aug 7, 2009
302
167
116
The memory will run at whatever speed you set it to that the CPU/motherboard supports. Whether it will be stable at that speed is a different story. If a memory kit is rated for 3600 it will be stable up to and including that speed. Most motherboards default to 2400 or 2666. And motherboard compatibility testing may not include every speed for every kit. They can't possibly test all possible combinations. Intel CPUs/motherboards are much more forgiving than AMD, though AMD is a lot better now than it used to be (talking about Ryzen, specifically). As long as the memory kit is not on the "confirmed incompatible" list, you are probably ok getting whatever memory even if it isn't on the list of tested kits.
 

Shmee

Memory and Storage, Graphics Cards
Super Moderator
Sep 13, 2008
6,673
1,877
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A Z590 and a 11600k would be a good upgrade for sure. However, there may be a different reason your old PC is crashing. It could be it just needs a fresh install of Windows 10 (did you already try that?) or it could be your old Seagate HDD is going out and causing issues, which could be possible even if it is not the boot drive. It might be worth more troubleshooting before giving up on the old system, or at least then you would know what the problem was. How was it crashing and what troubleshooting did you already try?
 

Bsmooth

Member
Nov 6, 2008
43
3
71
Yes already tried a lot of different things including: updating bios, going back on updates and trying to reload them, reloading windows on a brand new hard drive. The system I'm using right now is the same one, only with Windows 7 64 bit, with not a problem at all.
When it crashed it went into a looping crash and kept shutting down and starting again. It actually worked OK for almost 2 years with no problem, but it was the last update that did it.
The system gave me 10 years with only a GPU upgrade. I really don't think you could ask for more then that. It was cleaned once a year and I kept most of the dust out of it and I think that helped quite a bit. I like to get my worth out of things by taking care of things before they become a problem. But it doesn't help in the case of just getting old and outdated.
I basically use it for my Photography, racing sims and email. The Racing sims tax it the most, but even then it runs pretty well, at least in Windows 7 anyways.
I do have a few questions about Bios though, which is the easiest to use, and adapts itself to the components you use the best ? I read that the best was Asus, next MSI, then Gigabyte which I read needs some updating, then last but not least Asrock, which is what I have now.
I might consider Asus If the Bios is easier to use. I figure If I can pick out a few to choose from it will give me a bit more to choose and easier to find considering availability.
Is a B560 and 11600K a bad combination, right now as I said the B560 and Z590 are exactly the same price.
 

solidsnake1298

Senior member
Aug 7, 2009
302
167
116
They all adapt to your hardware about the same. In terms of ease of use, I agree that Asus is the easiest to navigate. My wife's computer has a MSI X370 motherboard and it is pretty easy to navigate as well. I regret putting a Gigabyte motherboard in my parent's computer. It wasn't a BAD motherboard in terms of the hardware, but when I was trying to diagnose what turned out to be a memory problem the BIOS was difficult to figure out and navigate. If you don't plan on overclocking or tweaking then this doesn't really matter and shouldn't factor into your motherboard decision.

If there is a big price difference, and the B560 board meets your connectivity needs, I would stick with B560 based on your statement that you don't plan to overclock.

If the B560 and Z590 boards you are looking at are the same price, then get Z590. It has more USB ports, more SATA ports, and supports full overclocking (which the 11600K can do).
 

Bsmooth

Member
Nov 6, 2008
43
3
71
Well I went with the MSI Z590 Gaming Plus. Unfortunately it arrived damaged, so I'll have to wait for a replacement.
But I wanted to ask the best way to swap out components one I get a replacement for the motherboard.
Obviously remove everything from the case except the power supply, although that could probably due for a cleaning. So should I then install everything I can on the new motherboard first, like the memory, CPU and fan assembly then put it into the case ?
Just wondering about the general reassembly and what order to do it in ?
 

solidsnake1298

Senior member
Aug 7, 2009
302
167
116
Here is my process. These steps assume your case has a PSU basement and are using an air cooler.

1) Install PSU into power supply basement. Route needed cables out of the PSU basement, but not to their final destination. Tie down unneeded cables.
2) Install CPU and RAM into motherboard. Install M.2 SSD if you have one.
3) Install motherboard into case.
4) Connect front panel connectors (power button, front USB, front audio, etc).
5) Mount fans (if not already installed), route cables and plug into motherboard fan headers. If you have RGB lighting strips or other RGB devices with dedicated RGB cables, now would be a good time to install them and route their cables.
6) Route 4/8 pin CPU EPS power connector and plug in.
7) Apply thermal paste and install CPU cooler.
8) Install SATA drives in their bays.
9) Connect SATA data cables.
10) Install GPU.
11) Route power cables and connect to their respective devices.
12) Manage power cables and tie down.
 

Bsmooth

Member
Nov 6, 2008
43
3
71
I remember you mentioned that newer Motherboards have much better sound. Just wondering If it will be as good as my old ASUS Xonar soundcard. Is it even worth getting a new soundcard.
I have pretty good PC speakers - Klipsch 2.1's.
 

solidsnake1298

Senior member
Aug 7, 2009
302
167
116
I used to have an Asus Xonar DSX in a previous build (circa 2012) and when I upgraded to my current setup, but before I got an external DAC/Amp, I compared the motherboard onboard audio to the Xonar and couldn't tell the difference.

As long as you don't have a bottom of the barrel motherboard I would not get a separate soundcard. And your MSI Gaming Plus is definitely not bottom of the barrel.
 
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Pohemi

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2004
7,317
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When it crashed it went into a looping crash and kept shutting down and starting again. It actually worked OK for almost 2 years with no problem, but it was the last update that did it.
I read through most of the thread and there's a lot of good info and suggestions here, not to mention that an upgrade wouldn't be a bad idea...
I just wanted to comment (anecdotally) that I had the same issue just a week or two ago when updating Win10 x64 Pro. The update failed several times and Windows Updater had to "undo changes"...and it did this several times and was bootlooping as it choked on itself.

I'm on a newer Asus Vivobook laptop with an AMD Ryzen 4K chip, so it wasn't even necessarily your older hardware that caused your difficulties. Windows updates, especially cumulative and/or major content updates...tend to not always go as planned, or at least without a few quirks.

In the end, I reinstalled Windows.
The first time it started doing updates post install (with a freshly downloaded Microsoft ISO), the update fails and rollbacks happened again with the 7-21 cumulative update. Thankfully, it finally unscrewed itself but it definitely wasn't "smooth" lol.
 

Bsmooth

Member
Nov 6, 2008
43
3
71
I do have an SSD drive and was wondering the best way to clean it for a new install of Windows 10.
Since I have windows 7 installed on my mechanical drive I can do this while I'm in Windows 7 ?
I did see this under a crucial page, Is this the best way ?

To delete partitions in Windows using Disk Management:
  • Ensure the SSD is connected and is not the boot drive
  • In Windows 7, right-click Computer and select Manage to enter Computer Management. Under Storage, select Disk Management.
    In Windows 8 and later, hold the Windows key and press the 'X' key to open an application menu including Disk Management, and select it. A list of the connected drives will appear in Disk Management
  • In the lower right-hand pane, find the drive you want to erase
  • Right-click on each partition and select Delete Volume
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
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No, unfortunately disk management is not able to properly clean a drive with a previous install of windows.

Open an admin command prompt. To do this, click the start button/windows key on the keyboard and type CMD, put your mouse cursor over it and select 'run as administrator'.

Then type diskpart and hit enter.

Type list disk and hit enter.

Look at the drives listed and type select 0, or select 1, etc to select the SSD by capacity.

Once selected successfully, type clean and hit enter.

The drive will be cleaned to factory standards with zero partitions hidden or otherwise.

Type exit, enter, exit, enter to close out of diskpart and CMD.

The drive is now ready for a clean install. Have your USB stick ready with Windows install. When you're ready to install on the SSD, disconnect all other hard drives before you start the install process. This will guarantee it doesn't mess with any partition info on the other drive(s). Once install is complete, reconnect secondary drives, and verify that bios is set to boot from ssd as primary/boot device.
 

Bsmooth

Member
Nov 6, 2008
43
3
71
Just a quick question. I went in and used diskpart and cleaned the disk. I don't see that SSD drive though listed anymore when I look at My computer ?
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
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Just a quick question. I went in and used diskpart and cleaned the disk. I don't see that SSD drive though listed anymore when I look at My computer ?

You can now go into disk management, right click the drive on the left pane and 'initialize' it, if you want to partition it from within an existing windows install.

If you want to use it for a fresh install of windows, then just boot from a windows USB key and it will show as a blank/new drive for use.
 
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