System components for a CAD computer

[jaydee]

If I were to build a computer from scratch for business purposes, specifically larger CAD rendering, Office, VBA, etc. what would I look for in components? CPU and graphics card I assume would be the big ones. What would be the important specs to look for: Video card certain OpenGL specs, faster gpu speed or RAM? Would cache be important on CPU, multiple cores?

 

[gaidensensei]

Basically to generalize it down, I think you'd want a gamers rig for most of the components, then for the video card you have to shell out a few thousands or so for a card that is purely for rendering. It (the video card) sucks big time for gaming, don't bother with them.

It's the same system as one who is doing animations or 3d modeling etc. It depends on which program you plan to use with CAD design, but assuming you're going to be using Revit or AutoCAD, they do utilize multiple cores and x64 now. I don't know how much of an improvement it is though, I just use it.

Look at nvidia Quadro FX series or ATI firegl for examples. Newegg is a place to start.

 

[mfenn]

If I were to build a computer from scratch for business purposes, specifically larger CAD rendering, Office, VBA, etc. what would I look for in components? CPU and graphics card I assume would be the big ones. What would be the important specs to look for: Video card certain OpenGL specs, faster gpu speed or RAM? Would cache be important on CPU, multiple cores?

No, just no.

Get a Dell Precision, write it off on your taxes as a business expense and be done with it.

For CAD, you do need a Quadro or FireGL because of the drivers. How beefy of a card you need depends on the complexity of your models.

 

[jaydee]

I'm hoping $2k video card is overkill. Not trying to render huge files. Solidworks 10-50MB files max? What about the OpenGL specs?

 

[gaidensensei]

The way I see it, the more you want your renders to look at your presentations like "Wow, is that real? Where is this building located?" then the more top line card you have to shell out for.

I have never compared "benchmark" comparisons between these graphics cards nor can profess profession in it, so I can't say what is a better buy.

Those renders on google images should be good enough for comparison.

Oh and yeah, the better the card, the less time you have to spend waiting on the renders, I'm presuming.

 

[jaydee]

No, just no.

Get a Dell Precision, write it off on your taxes as a business expense and be done with it.

For CAD, you do need a Quadro or FireGL because of the drivers. How beefy of a card you need depends on the complexity of your models.

And why wouldn't you be able to write off newegg parts for taxes as a business expense?

 

[jaydee]

The way I see it, the more you want your renders to look at your presentations like "Wow, is that real? Where is this building located?" then the more top line card you have to shell out for.

I have never compared "benchmark" comparisons between these graphics cards nor can profess profession in it, so I can't say what is a better buy.

Those renders on google images should be good enough for comparison.

Oh and yeah, the better the card, the less time you have to spend waiting on the renders, I'm presuming.

I'm not thinking buildings, I'm thinking CNC machined parts.

 

[RebateMonger]

For CAD, you do need a Quadro or FireGL because of the drivers. How beefy of a card you need depends on the complexity of your models.

Yeah, those seem to be what folks who are heavy-duty into 3D CAD are using. The clients I've had doing CAD (mostly AutoCAD in 2D) have used very ordinary video cards.

Also, be careful of the OS you choose. There's AutoCAD-related tools that are NOT yet certified for Win7 or even Vista. It's embarrassing to recommend a PC to a client and then find that their software has problems running on it.

 

[mfenn]

And why wouldn't you be able to write off newegg parts for taxes as a business expense?

You would. When did I say you couldn't?

The point is, for a production system YOU DO NOT SELF-BUILD. When the shit hits the fan, and you're facing a deadline, you do NOT want to be trying to RMA parts.

 

[Davidh373]

I'm not thinking buildings, I'm thinking CNC machined parts.

They are pretty much the same. Get an older 512MB QuadroFX (with CUDA support), 4GB+ Ram(I would recommend 6-8), and a quad core.

Without knowing your budget it's a little hard, but if you wanted to go the extra mile get a Xeon W3520, with a 1GB QuadroFX, and 8GB ram.

I would say a Core 2 Quad or Phenom II X4, with 4GB ram and a QuadroFX with 512MB is far more than enough if you say you are just doing part renders.

Rendering takes processing power. I know there isn't much animation in CAD, if any, so at most with that machine you would get about 2-3 minutes per (very detailed) frame rendered.

 

[jaydee]

You would. When did I say you couldn't?

The point is, for a production system YOU DO NOT SELF-BUILD. When the shit hits the fan, and you're facing a deadline, you do NOT want to be trying to RMA parts.

You didn't directly, but I don't know why you mentioned the tax write-off bit, then say to get Dell instead but for other reasons that you didn't mention...


At any rate, what's the protocol for sending a computer back to Dell for repair? Easier or faster then to RMA a single part? Or is your point, that a pre-built Dell is less likely to fail than a self-build? This would be for a home office, so if anything was really pressing, I could go to the real office.

Without knowing your budget it's a little hard, but if you wanted to go the extra mile get a Xeon W3520, with a 1GB QuadroFX, and 8GB ram.

I would say a Core 2 Quad or Phenom II X4, with 4GB ram and a QuadroFX with 512MB is far more than enough if you say you are just doing part renders.

As far as specific part recommendations and price range, I didn't ask for any right now, because I'm probably a year away from building/buying such a system, just trying to get a general feel for types of components. Generally what's higher priority for a cpu: a high core count, large cache, or clock speed? Video card highest priorities: fast RAM, lots of RAM, OpenGL spec, etc.

 

[mfenn]

You didn't directly, but I don't know why you mentioned the tax write-off bit, then say to get Dell instead but for other reasons that you didn't mention...

Sorry if I was unclear, it was unintentional. 🙂

At any rate, what's the protocol for sending a computer back to Dell for repair? Easier or faster then to RMA a single part? Or is your point, that a pre-built Dell is less likely to fail than a self-build? This would be for a home office, so if anything was really pressing, I could go to the real office.

That's the thing, you don't send a Precision back to Dell. They send a tech to you. The tech will be at your door with part-in-hand on the next business day.

The Precision will absolutely be more expensive. However, it depends on how expensive downtime is for you (i.e. how much your time is worth).

I love building and tinkering in my spare time, but I would never do so when real money is at stake. The key point I'm trying to make is that a work computer is not the same as a hobby machine, and should not be treated as such.

 

[gaidensensei]

What mfenn says has merit. Work and hobby PC are two different things, when things stop working, it can get into a mess without buying it from a supplier.

Only exception I can think of is, unless you work at home 😉.

 

[klocwerk]

Gotta agree with MFenn. I love building machines, but I NEVER build a machine when a livelihood is on the line.
Get a commercial box, get 3 or 5 year on-site warranty, get to work paying for it.

 

[mfenn]

OP, I realized I didn't answer you original question.

My recommendation would be to get a Dell Precision T3500 with:

• The OS you use at work (since this is XP, you would pick the "Genuine Windows® 7 Professional Bonus 64- Windows XP Professional downgrade" option)
• Xeon W3520 (this is essentially the Xeon version of the i7 920)
• 6GB of DDR3 1066 ECC (3 DIMMS) so you can have some expandability
• The standard 3-year NBD onsite warranty
• 512MB Quadro FX 580 (this sort of depends on your exact CAD needs, but this is a good entry level CAD card. Should be fine for CNC parts since they can't have a huge number of individual pieces.) This card has 2 DisplayPort and 1 DVI connector so keep that in mind.
• Whatever hard drive fits your storage needs

This comes to $1600 with a 500GB HDD.

 

[jaydee]

I see you mean. I think in most cases it would be better to buy a pre-built from Dell. But for what I'm thinking, I don't think it's that clear. First, it would be a home office, therefore work+play in effect 🙂. Secondly, I'd want to certain components, install an SSD right away, which would void some warranty I'm sure. Third, it's out of pocket, cost will be an issue. If it's going to cost an extra $700 for a Dell Precision for the 3 year support, I might as well buy a lesser laptop with that money as a backup in case something does go wrong. And lastly, I don't think the possibility of frying a component after the first couple months is that likely to begin with.

All that to say, I'm not really asking for pre-build vs self-build debate because I'm not looking to buy anytime soon, I'm mostly interested in the hardware requirements so I can somewhat plan ahead as well as satisfy my own curiosity.

 

[jaydee]

OP, I realized I didn't answer you original question.

My recommendation would be to get a Dell Precision T3500 with:

• The OS you use at work (since this is XP, you would pick the "Genuine Windows® 7 Professional Bonus 64- Windows XP Professional downgrade" option)
• Xeon W3520 (this is essentially the Xeon version of the i7 920)
• 6GB of DDR3 1066 ECC (3 DIMMS) so you can have some expandability
• The standard 3-year NBD onsite warranty
• 512MB Quadro FX 580 (this sort of depends on your exact CAD needs, but this is a good entry level CAD card. Should be fine for CNC parts since they can't have a huge number of individual pieces.) This card has 2 DisplayPort and 1 DVI connector so keep that in mind.
• Whatever hard drive fits your storage needs

This comes to $1600 with a 500GB HDD.

Man that's a lot of dough for a $300 cpu and $200 video card setup... There's no monitor there, right? Without actually trying, I believe I could build two systems for that much money that are 90% as good.

Would there be any reason to go with straight XP instead of Win 7 and use the XP mode for backwards compatibiltiy?

 

[daw123]

Yeah, those seem to be what folks who are heavy-duty into 3D CAD are using. The clients I've had doing CAD (mostly AutoCAD in 2D) have used very ordinary video cards.

Also, be careful of the OS you choose. There's AutoCAD-related tools that are NOT yet certified for Win7 or even Vista. It's embarrassing to recommend a PC to a client and then find that their software has problems running on it.

I work for a multi-disciplinary consultancy using Revit, Microstation and AutoCAD applications of varying types and ages. For example, in our office, we have AutoCAD Lt 2006, 2007, Architectural Desktop 2007, 2008, 2010, etc.

We all use run-of-the-mill computers, which are shitty by modern day computing standards.

I personally draw 2D drawings in 'CAD, whilst the guys and gals upstairs do full 3D renderings (this is for new builds and walk-throughs)

 

[mfenn]

Man that's a lot of dough for a $300 cpu and $200 video card setup... There's no monitor there, right? Without actually trying, I believe I could build two systems for that much money that are 90% as good.

Would there be any reason to go with straight XP instead of Win 7 and use the XP mode for backwards compatibiltiy?

Yes, Precisions aren't cheap, but the service and support are top notch.

Since your version of AutoCAD may not be certified for 7. Also, XP Mode is really just a virtual machine, and virtual machines and 3d don't mix (generally speaking). However, it will probably work in 7, it's just not guaranteed to be flawless.

 

[mfenn]

I see you mean. I think in most cases it would be better to buy a pre-built from Dell. But for what I'm thinking, I don't think it's that clear. First, it would be a home office, therefore work+play in effect 🙂. Secondly, I'd want to certain components, install an SSD right away, which would void some warranty I'm sure. Third, it's out of pocket, cost will be an issue. If it's going to cost an extra $700 for a Dell Precision for the 3 year support, I might as well buy a lesser laptop with that money as a backup in case something does go wrong. And lastly, I don't think the possibility of frying a component after the first couple months is that likely to begin with.

All that to say, I'm not really asking for pre-build vs self-build debate because I'm not looking to buy anytime soon, I'm mostly interested in the hardware requirements so I can somewhat plan ahead as well as satisfy my own curiosity.

Hey, it's your time and money. 🙂 If this is just going to be a secondary "convenience" then building your own is OK. I just wouldn't rely on a self-built machine for anything critical (i.e. back up EVERYTHING work-related to the office).

 

[wwswimming]

I'm hoping $2k video card is overkill. Not trying to render huge files. Solidworks 10-50MB files max? What about the OpenGL specs?

complete overkill.

you'd be all right with a 7600GT.

i suggest getting a gaming card that has been out at least a year. for example the Sapphire 4850 1 GB. cost me about $120.

i have Solidworks 2005.

 

[Brian Stirling]

Do yourself a favor and save the money for the one component you should spend it on -- the display! Get a good mid priced PC and then get a great 30 inch display with 2560x1600 resolution.


Brian

 

[Seggybop]

keep in mind that the video card has nothing to do with the rendering output; it's only for the view while you're working. the rendering itself is done by the CPU. unless you're using something strange like nvidia's gelato, you're very silly if you think an expensive video card will affect render times or quality.

and even if viewport performance is what you're concerned about, many software packages don't even benefit from the driver optimizations in the "pro" series cards. it's necessary to check that out on a case by case basis.

beyond that, if you're not being subsidized by a company and you're not total newbsauce with troubleshooting computers, it's very unlikely that the extra cost of certified components is worthwhile for this. even if the worst case where the whole system breaks down, it'll be cheaper to go down to best buy and grab some overpriced replacement part than spend all that extra cash... though if you have it laying around to spend and want absolutely minimal inconvenience, then sure, go with a premade.

 

[Knavish]

FYI I was recently shopping for a Nvidia Quadro FX1800 for Solidworks @ work. It's $450 at newegg, has 768MB of ram. It also has the same GPU as the 9600GT, which is $85 (after rebate) with 1GB of ram.

I'm sure the driver has some additional features which accelerate programs like Solidworks, but not *that* much. The real reason to own one of this is to satisfy tech support if you're paying the big $$$ for a supported CAD license.

 

[jaydee]

Hey, it's your time and money. 🙂 If this is just going to be a secondary "convenience" then building your own is OK. I just wouldn't rely on a self-built machine for anything critical (i.e. back up EVERYTHING work-related to the office).

I appreciate your input 🙂 Maybe I'll feel differently when I actually get to work on this, but if I were start right now, handbuild seems to be the best choice given my budget and other circumstances.

keep in mind that the video card has nothing to do with the rendering output; it's only for the view while you're working. the rendering itself is done by the CPU. unless you're using something strange like nvidia's gelato, you're very silly if you think an expensive video card will affect render times or quality.

and even if viewport performance is what you're concerned about, many software packages don't even benefit from the driver optimizations in the "pro" series cards. it's necessary to check that out on a case by case basis.

At the risk of sounding newbish, based on what you're saying, if I were to look at anandtech cpu and/or gpu reviews, I should look at the 3D Rendering benchmarks? I usually skip over the "General Performance" page on reviews, lol, guess there is a purpose! If this is the case, that answers a lot of questions, I didn't really know Anand or anyone really had useful benchmarks for non-gamers!

Edit, there's a lot of benchmarks for 3D renderings, is there a "best" one?