System-building advice?

flamingspinach

Senior member
Nov 4, 2004
354
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My plan can be found here.

I'd like to fit within $1500 - I do have a really old Viewsonic VG150 15" LCD from 1999 which I suppose if I was really hard-pressed I could live with, dropping the monitor I have in this list, but I'm trying to find some other option to lower the price without really dropping anything.

For example, do you think it would be wise to downgrade to a 6600? Is it possible to flash a 6600 up to a 6800? Is the processor overkill? Any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you,

-fs
 

dc5

Senior member
Jul 10, 2004
791
0
0
you could save some money and gain performance by going wth amd athlon 64 2800/3000+ instead of a pentium 4. you will have to choose a different motherboard.

edit; this looks like a gaming system so i recomend the athlon 64. the 6600 can not be flashed to a 6800 so stick with the 6800. take out the UPS. are the headset and game pads really necessary for you? i'm not sure what else to take out to keep it under $1500 because it's pretty much a complete computer package.
 

Gioron

Member
Jul 22, 2004
73
0
0
What are you planning to do with this machine? I'm kindof assuming gaming based on the peripherals, but you could always be using the speedpad and rumblepad as blunt objects to bludgeon people who get close to your computer... Actually, it kinda looks like you just said "all the extras" without considering whether you'll use them. Are you really going to record TV shows? Do you really need wireless G? Do you have specific games in mind for the rumblepad? The extras seem to be adding quite a bit of the cost, which is fine if you're going to use all of them, but make sure that its not wasted. Also, are you planning on overclocking?

The first advice has to be: Go with AMD instead of Intel. At this point, there is absolutely no reason to go Intel if you aren't doing 80%+ of your work on the 3-4 content creation programs that are optimized enough for Intel that it can match AMD. The gaming benchmarks aren't even close, especially when you consider cost.
I'd probably go with a retail boxed socket 754 Athlon 64 3000+. The retail heat sink should be good enough unless you're planning on overclocking, so you save $30 on the processor and $40 on the heatsink. Alternately, you could go for a socket 939 Athlon 64 3000+. which should be more future-proofed and overclockable, but the premium for getting a dual-channel DDR system (the main difference between 939 and 754) is higher than the performance benefit.
For motherboards, most that have an nForce 3 250 or nForce 3 Ultra chipset are good, but make sure its not an nForce 3 150. Or wait a few weeks and get one with an nForce 4 chipset, but that'll mean moving to PCI-Express for your video card, and at the moment there isn't really a reason to other than future expansion.

Second:
How bad is your power, and do you really need a UPS? I'd personally go with just the surge protector unless you're subject to frequent short power outages or brownouts. Short outages are mainly just annoyances, and the battery won't last through long outages so it won't help you there.

I'm not sure what to say about the video card, it really depends on what kind of games you're expecting to play. If you're looking for at least decent playability for the next 2 years, that graphics card should be great, if you're planning on replacing sooner, you might downgrade a bit.

I don't know the LCD you've chosen so I can't recommend for or against, but if you buy one I'd highly recommend finding one in a retail store and checking it for dead pixels before buying it. The return policies for dead pixels are still pretty bad, but most retail stores will let you look at a monitor before handing over the cash. Also, it says "w/speakers" so you might be able to shave a few bucks off the price by dumping the other speakers and using the integrated one (note: I have no idea how good/bad the integrated speakers are, so this might or might not be a good idea).

The NEC 3500A got better scores than the BenQ drive you selected, and is only a few bucks more expensive. I know you want to _lower_ the price instead of increase it, but its only a few bucks and might be worth considering.
Reference: http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2260

Also consider waiting on some of the lower cost peripherals. I'm not sure if you can swing it, but I'd personally do it that way and then hint that I wanted them as christmas gifts. Same might go for the keyboard/mouse, but thats a bit more iffy because of the higher price and definite useability improvement with the MX mouse over most normal mice. Waiting on these is also a good way to spread the cost out if you can live without them immediately (and also might work for the LCD panel). Its real easy to upgrade your computer in 6 months by buying a good LCD monitor, and less easy to upgrade the hard drive/video card/etc.

Ok, thats my long winded advice. And yes, I'm at work and bored.
 

flamingspinach

Senior member
Nov 4, 2004
354
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0
dc5: OK, taking out the UPS - I like my gamepads though, and as for the switch to Athlon64, that would require a total rehaul...

Is the Athlon64 technology actually something that's going to become a large player in the future? Or is Intel's 64-bit architecture going to dominate it eventually? Since I'm not sure, I think I'll stick with 32-bit for now... thanks for the advice though.

Gioron: I plan to use this computer for practically everything and anything. Gaming, coding, rendering, word processing, whatever - hence the large number of peripherals. The TV tuner card is so that I can hook up console gaming systems to my computer; the 802.11g is necessary in order to connect to our home network which is totally wireless (bad move I know, but we don't have ethernet in the walls, and cabling is ugly and non-feasible across the distances it would need to traverse); the rumblepad I didn't choose for the force feedback but rather because it looked like a nice sturdy analog/digital combo pad that I could adapt to use for ZSNES or other 2D-type games. As for overclocking, yes I do intend to do that a bit, but I won't be going overboard, don't want to risk damaging anything.

What exactly does AMD have that Intel doesn't? I'm just wondering, because it seems to me just based on people's reviews at NewEgg that everyone thinks P4 Northwood is an excellent processor... Also I don't know if I'm willing to step out on a limb and support AMD's 64-bit architecture, since it is relatively knew, AFAIK. As for heatsinks, the Zalman is IMHO a great deal at only $40, considering the amazing performance it delivers.

Do you think PCIe will become mainstream any time soon? Just wondering.

You're right, I should drop the UPS. What was I thinking!? o_O

I don't intend to replace anything in the near future if I can help it (once I've bought this rig) - my parents, who supply me with computer parts, are of the mentality that if it's not broken, you shouldn't fix it... -_- So I think I'll stick with the 6800 like you said. Since NewEgg started carrying BFG's 6800 non-Ultra, I switched to that from the Leadtek for an extra $20 since I hear BFGTech is an excellent 3rd party card maker. Is this true?

I'll definitely take a look at that NEC drive, thanks for the tip!

Like I said, I'd like to just buy everything at once, but I will wait on that LCD; it's just too expensive for me at this point...

Thanks for the advice! I appreciate it.

-fs
 

KK

Lifer
Jan 2, 2001
15,903
4
81
I believe the Mx Duo is running 60 shipped at zipzoomfly and amazon right now. Look in the hot deals section. That'll save you atleast 10 bucks. I'd probably go AMD64(939 core) route right now, just seems like they are alittle better price for the performance. $41 for the wireless PCI card seems alittle costly, you may be able to get a better deal looking in the hot deal section. BenQ dvd burner, not heard alot about them, so I don't know the quality, the NEC 3500 burner has lots of good comments, same with the pioneer 108.

That's my 2 cents on what I'd look into more.
 

flamingspinach

Senior member
Nov 4, 2004
354
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0
OK, after looking at various threads around here, switched to Athlon64 3200+ (socket 754), changed mobo to Asus K8N-E Deluxe, removed UPS, changed to NEC burner.

Is the socket 939 really worth it? Does it require DDR2? Is DDR2 dual channel DDR? Is DDR2 at all useful?

Also, since the price seems to have dropped a bit, I think I could fit in a sound card. Do you think the K8N-E Deluxe's onboard sound is good enough? If not, can you recommend a good sound card?

Thanks for your help.

BTW, the system specs are here.

-fs
 

flamingspinach

Senior member
Nov 4, 2004
354
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0
bump

I feel really guilty bumping this, but this forum seems to bury posts so quickly, and I'd really like some advice... >_< *berates self*

-fs
 

ts3433

Platinum Member
Jun 29, 2004
2,731
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0
DDR2 is not dual channel DDR--it is DDR2. The S939 platform is, of course, better--pick up a 90nm one and it'll OC very well. It's also supposed to be easier to upgrade from than S754. DDR2 is not used--using it would, IIRC, require a redesign of the processor's integrated memory controller, but I hear DDR2 is not the greatest architecture, and so won't be needed for some time.
 
B

Blackjack2000

Socket 754 -

Speed: Same
Temperature: cooler
Technology: newer
Price: Higher


Socket 939 -

Speed: Same
Teperature: hotter
Technology: older
Price: lower

That's the difference. If you plan on overclocking or upgrading, go for socket 939, if you want the best bang for your buck, go with socket 754.

As for soundcards, read this thread: http://forums.anandtech.com/me...7&amp;threadid=1436010

If you have nice speakers/headphones, and sound makes a big difference to you when gaming or listening to music it would be a good idea.
 

flamingspinach

Senior member
Nov 4, 2004
354
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0
Wait, what? 754 is newer? I thought 939 was newer? o_O

Decided on Audigy2 ZS. Not sure whether my headphones or speakers will limit the sound card though... oh well, can always upgrade those later.

Updated some other stuff too. Rerate please? Thanks.

-fs
 

xsilver

Senior member
Aug 9, 2001
470
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0
Originally posted by: Blackjack2000
Socket 754 -

Speed: Same
Temperature: cooler
Technology: newer
Price: Higher


Socket 939 -

Speed: Same
Teperature: hotter
Technology: older
Price: lower

That's the difference. If you plan on overclocking or upgrading, go for socket 939, if you want the best bang for your buck, go with socket 754.

As for soundcards, read this thread: http://forums.anandtech.com/me...7&amp;threadid=1436010

If you have nice speakers/headphones, and sound makes a big difference to you when gaming or listening to music it would be a good idea.

this guy has it all wrong --
Socket 754 -

Speed: Same (close enough, some are won by s754 some s939 due to the dual channel memory thing)
Temperature: HOTTER
Technology: OLDER
Price: LOWER (but clock for clock higher, eg s939 3000 is cheaper than s754 3000)


Socket 939 -

Speed: Same
Teperature: LOWER (the 0.09u ones)
Technology: newer, actually just more futureproof as the s754 will be phased out around the 4000+ mark or so
Price: HIGHER, as this also incorporates the fx line and other high end stuff

If you're tight on budget s754 is a better option as mobo's are considerably cheaper / more mature
however the s939 is more futureproof and may be a better overclocker due to the new 0.09u process

also personally I think the audigy is overkill, the money could be better spent elsewhere and just use the onboard sound
 

flamingspinach

Senior member
Nov 4, 2004
354
0
0
Er, I'd prefer to stick with the sound card... but do you think I should replace my Cordless MX Duo with an MX510 + generic keyboard? Seems like that might save me some money which I could use maybe to get some actually good memory (as opposed to the "Value" Corsair I have selected right now)...

-fs
 

xsilver

Senior member
Aug 9, 2001
470
0
0
tis people like you that are keeping creative alive :p

also, there's nothing wrong with "value" corsair ram -- I'm a big believer of tigher timings = marketing spin as performance is not increased greatly with uber expensive 222 ram
/puts flamesuit on
 

flamingspinach

Senior member
Nov 4, 2004
354
0
0
Does your comment about the RAM apply to overclocking as well, or just to general stock performance? And regardless of whether I upgrade my RAM or not, do you think the Cordless MX Duo is worth it, or should I switch to an MX510 and a generic keyboard?

Thanks.

-fs
 

Waylay00

Golden Member
Nov 15, 2004
1,793
0
71
Well, looking at your wishlist flamingspinach, I have some comments. First of all, you have selected a Socket 939 mobo, yet you have selected a Socket 939 Newcastle 3200+. If you are going with socket 939, get a Winchester core 3200+ A64. They are a tad bit cheaper, perform better, create less heat, and overclock like bandits.
 

xsilver

Senior member
Aug 9, 2001
470
0
0
if you're overclocking you can just use the memory divider's to clock down the memory -- granted its not going to be as fast as 1:1 ratio but I think the price/performance ratio is not worth it....

mouse and keyboard combos are a matter of ergonomics /preference -- if you plan to use them away from the computer, there's not much you can do with a corded option ? eg. if the computer is in your bedroom and you want to surf the net in bed ; that's pretty sad :p:) --- i mean you'll NEED the wireless option
 

flamingspinach

Senior member
Nov 4, 2004
354
0
0
Waylay: actually I've selected a socket 754 mobo and socket 754 newcastle... at least I think so... *checks his wishlist* yep...

I would absolutely get a Winchester 939, but the nForce4 boards are all SLI so far, AFAIK... and I don't want SLI, I want an AGP+PCI setup...

xsilver: That's true, I guess it will all depend on how I use it... but considering that I only have a 15" screen I'll probably be close enough to it to not need wireless...

-fs
 

xsilver

Senior member
Aug 9, 2001
470
0
0
-- get an nforce 3 -- the point of nforce 4 is the PCI express / SLI option -- the other benefits are pretty useless

and LOL a 15" screen,LCD? or CRT? I can just imagine a l33t noob going look at my ace fx55 /6800 system that can run 1600x1200 @100fps ..... but my monitor only runs 800x600 @ 65hz :):):)
 
B

Blackjack2000

Originally posted by: xsilver
Originally posted by: Blackjack2000
Socket 754 -

Speed: Same
Temperature: cooler
Technology: newer
Price: Higher


Socket 939 -

Speed: Same
Teperature: hotter
Technology: older
Price: lower

That's the difference. If you plan on overclocking or upgrading, go for socket 939, if you want the best bang for your buck, go with socket 754.

As for soundcards, read this thread: http://forums.anandtech.com/me...7&amp;threadid=1436010

If you have nice speakers/headphones, and sound makes a big difference to you when gaming or listening to music it would be a good idea.

this guy has it all wrong --
Socket 754 -

Speed: Same (close enough, some are won by s754 some s939 due to the dual channel memory thing)
Temperature: HOTTER
Technology: OLDER
Price: LOWER (but clock for clock higher, eg s939 3000 is cheaper than s754 3000)


Socket 939 -

Speed: Same
Teperature: LOWER (the 0.09u ones)
Technology: newer, actually just more futureproof as the s754 will be phased out around the 4000+ mark or so
Price: HIGHER, as this also incorporates the fx line and other high end stuff

If you're tight on budget s754 is a better option as mobo's are considerably cheaper / more mature
however the s939 is more futureproof and may be a better overclocker due to the new 0.09u process

also personally I think the audigy is overkill, the money could be better spent elsewhere and just use the onboard sound

oye, my second bad mistake. Yeah, I had the two sockets mixed up.
 

flamingspinach

Senior member
Nov 4, 2004
354
0
0
Originally posted by: xsilver
-- get an nforce 3 -- the point of nforce 4 is the PCI express / SLI option -- the other benefits are pretty useless

and LOL a 15" screen,LCD? or CRT? I can just imagine a l33t noob going look at my ace fx55 /6800 system that can run 1600x1200 @100fps ..... but my monitor only runs 800x600 @ 65hz :):):)

Hehe - it's a 15" Viewsonic VG150 LCD screen - one of the first-gen LCDs from back before the turn of the millennium. CRTs, though they can achieve great refresh rates (resolution doesn't really concern me as 1280x1024 is good enough for me), are a bit too clunky for my tastes (plus I'd have to buy a new monitor :p).

Asus doesn't make any nForce3 s939 boards, AFAIK - and I kinda wanted the AI Bios features of Asus. Asus is the only company I really know makes good motherboards - I've heard a lot of good things about them. If you know of any other good mobo companies that make an nForce3 s939 board, please, by all means, advise me! :)

-fs