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System build advice request: $2650 video editing rig

S

sperho

Member
I've built several systems over the years, most recently about 6 months ago (photo editing workstation). I'm looking for fast, reliable, and reasonably quiet. A monitor does not need to be included in this budget. The computer will not be used for gaming and given that we're not sure which software we're going for yet, I'm thinking about adding a suitable higher-end GPU after the decision is made and as such, a high-end is not a part of the stated budget. I'm strongly leaning toward a 3930k processor despite it's age, so unless someone has a compelling recommendation to not go that way, please bias the system around that processor. *edit*: I guess I need a discrete GPU with the 3930k, so I'm willing to spend up to $150 for at worst a placeholder GPU, but it may be fine for the long run too, depending on what editing software we go with. Thanks!


1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing.
Video editing. Software not completely chosen yet and it is not a part of the hardware budget.

2. What YOUR budget is. A price range is acceptable as long as it's not more than a 20% spread
$2650, monitor excluded

3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from.
USA, online only (no good PC parts stores anywhere close by).

4. IF you're buying parts OUTSIDE the US, please post a link to the vendor you'll be buying from.
We can't be expected to scour the internet on your behalf, chasing down deals in your specific country... Again, help us, help YOU.

5. IF YOU have a brand preference. That means, are you an Intel-Fanboy, AMD-Fanboy, ATI-Fanboy, nVidia-Fanboy, Seagate-Fanboy, WD-Fanboy, etc.
Preferences: Intel, Samsung SSDs, Western Digital HDs

6. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are.
New build (I've already selected a monitor and already own mouse, keyboard and speakers)

7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds.
No overclock initially, perhaps a mild overclock in the future.

8. What resolution, not monitor size, will you be using?
27", 2560x1440 (reminder: it is not included in this budget)

9. WHEN do you plan to build it?
Note that it is usually not cost or time effective to choose your build more than a month before you actually plan to be using it.
Within the next 2-3 weeks.

X. Do you need to purchase any software to go with the system, such as Windows or Blu Ray playback software?
I'll need to purchase Win 7 Pro 64 bit.
 
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sperho said:
I'm thinking about adding a suitable GPU after the decision is made and as such, this build needs to be ready for a GPU, but it is not a part of the stated budget.
Click to expand...
Well, if you're going to get 3930K, you will need some discrete graphics card regardless of software used, so it should be included in the budget.
sperho said:
8. What resolution, not monitor size, will you be using?
27", 2560x1440 (reminder: it is not included in this budget)
Click to expand...

Why not? Is it not part of the same new build? You probably have a good reason for this, but I just want to check, cos we've had cases before where the monitor is in a separate budget for no good reason. Do you have other peripherals i.e. keyboard, mouse, speakers/headphones?
 
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Oops, didn't realize that about the 3930k... I'll edit my original post. On the monitor, I already know what I want, so I didn't need a recommendation for it...
 
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Just for ref, the dell is a great deal right now!

Also, I'm still confused on your answer to lehtv. Is this a $2500 budget including the monitor, meaning that there is $1950 remaining to spend on other components, or is this a $3050 budget with $550 earmarked for the dell monitor and therefore $2500 left to spend on components? Or is it something else?
 
Also, I'm still confused on your answer to lehtv. Is this a $2500 budget including the monitor, meaning that there is $1950 remaining to spend on other components, or is this a $3050 budget with $550 earmarked for the dell monitor and therefore $2500 left to spend on components? Or is it something else?
Click to expand...

The highlighted. Actually, I bumped the budget to $2650 as well for the parts excluding the monitor.
 
Is there any chance of deciding on your software package before you actually build?

I'm assuming from your choice of an LGA-2011 processor that time is money for you? In other words, being able to process a chunk of video 50% faster will result in 20-50% higher revenue for you?
 
DSF said:
Is there any chance of deciding on your software package before you actually build?
Click to expand...
Agreed. Methinks if it says Adobe, a decent ~$200 video card might be better than a, "worst placeholder." I'm not sure of any video software that's hung up on pro hardware, either.

To OP:
1. How much RAM do you expect to be able to use, right off?
2. What is driving you to build, rather than buy, given a budget that can right about fit a Z or Precision?
 
2. What is driving you to build, rather than buy, given a budget that can right about fit a Z or Precision?
Click to expand...

I'm assuming from your choice of an LGA-2011 processor that time is money for you? In other words, being able to process a chunk of video 50% faster will result in 20-50% higher revenue for you?
Click to expand...

This. If time really is money to you in this sense, how comfortable are you with having to troubleshoot your own pro-level workstation if there is a problem rather than calling support from, for example, Dell? Are you willing to spend time and effort (possibly significant amounts of both) doing things that don't result in money for your business/work?
 
DSF said:
Is there any chance of deciding on your software package before you actually build?

I'm assuming from your choice of an LGA-2011 processor that time is money for you? In other words, being able to process a chunk of video 50% faster will result in 20-50% higher revenue for you?
Click to expand...

To the first question: probably not. To the second paragraph: time is precious for the user of this build (my wife). We both work, have kids, and she especially doesn't have tons of time for hobbies. She is a very creative person and has been wanting to edit video for years for personal work, not professional work. She does not want to be waiting around both while in the program (things need to happen without lag/delay while editing) or while rendering and wants the fastest machine we can afford. She wants a smooth experience with a machine that I can support her on in an environment that she's familiar with (Windows PCs). So, time is not really money, but very valuable; if the computer is slow, there are significantly diminishing returns on this hobby. If a $1500 system is only 10% slower than a $2500 system, then show me the system. I post here to get some more expert ideas to layer onto my own research. If I can spend $500 or $1000 less AND get 90% of the performance that $2500 can attain performance-wise, then I'll spend less. I'm not hung up on spending just to spend, but I am not going to pinch pennies just to save them, either. Performance is more important than coming under budget by buying something that is less expandable/quality/etc.

Cerb said:
Agreed. Methinks if it says Adobe, a decent ~$200 video card might be better than a, "worst placeholder." I'm not sure of any video software that's hung up on pro hardware, either.

To OP:
1. How much RAM do you expect to be able to use, right off?
2. What is driving you to build, rather than buy, given a budget that can right about fit a Z or Precision?
Click to expand...

I'm guessing that there is a pretty good chance that the software will be Sony Vegas Pro. I don't like what Adobe has done with the whole subscription thing as far as I can tell and we don't need to be on the latest/greatest version, which seems to be the benefit if a pro shop was going to upgrade every cycle no matter what. Vegas apparently likes a different card set than Premiere Pro and Elements, to my knowledge, Elements doesn't use GPU acceleration at all. I really think Elements is going to be too constraining for what she wants to do anyway, but she is going to download trials of both (and probably Adobe PP for reference) and go from there, but wants to do it on the system she'll be running.

I expect that I'll be putting no less than 16 GB in to start with and if it's only a 100 bucks more or so for another 16, I'll probably just put 32 in just to not have to do it in the future. Maybe she'll never need it. That's ok. If she does, it's there.

I don't know much about the Dell and HP workstation options. I am very comfortable with "enthusiast" grade hardware and builds. I don't have to spend my full budget and I know I don't want to allow the budget to expand any more than I've stated. How much is a Dell or HP going to cost me relative to what I'm interested in buying? I really just don't want to deal with it really and be locked in to their platform.

Essence_of_War said:
This. If time really is money to you in this sense, how comfortable are you with having to troubleshoot your own pro-level workstation if there is a problem rather than calling support from, for example, Dell? Are you willing to spend time and effort (possibly significant amounts of both) doing things that don't result in money for your business/work?
Click to expand...

As stated above, I'm very comfortable with troubleshooting. I've been working with, on, in, and around computer hardware for about 23 years for work-related and personal needs. Being down for a week while waiting on a board or whatever is a non issue. I don't mind spending the time to research, build, and fix if necessary a PC for my wife. We both have different tastes in hobbies and doing something like this occasionally is fun for me. I have no interest in video editing, so it's a good fit. 🙂
 
How much real-world gain is there with the Sandy Bridge hexacore architecture compared to the Haswell 4 core architecture (4770K)? I don't see much advantage in the Anandtech benchmarks results. In fact, I see more deficiencies in the 3930K compared to the 4770K, but maybe I'm not looking at the right benchmarks? This is a case in point. I'm not willing to spend nearly $300 more on a single component for a "5%" gain unless that component enables big gains elsewhere. Guidance?
 
lehtv said:
Here's what I'm thinking, if not buying a prebuilt workstation:

3930K $540
AC Freezer i30 $30
Asrock X79 Extreme4 $220
2x8GB Crucial Ballistix Low Profile $268 (two sets)
Plextor M5S 256GB $180 AR
WD Caviar Blue 1TB $57
Seasonic G550 $80
Fractal Design R4 $80 + Corsair AF140 Quiet case fan $19
DVD-RW drive $20

= $1500 so far.

+ additional drives if needed ($57 per drive)
+ backup drive (external usb 3.0)
+ graphics card, depending on application used
Click to expand...

Two of these 2630's are $1270
http://m.newegg.com/Product/index?itemNumber=N82E16819117268

This board is $580
http://m.newegg.com/Product/index?itemNumber=N82E16813131817

Plug in the other numbers: Total $2590. A little slower but 12c/24t!
 
Most of the benchmarks on the AT bench are not heavily multithreaded. 3930K will have significantly better performance in heavily multithreaded tasks, but Haswell's performance per core per clock is probably about 15-20% higher, so it will win the single to quad threaded benches.

Haswell is the more balanced choice in terms of performance, cost, features and power consumption. But you can't find Haswell boards with eight RAM slots... but you're probably going to be fine with 32GB max.
 
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Some real world guidance ..I'm an advanced video hobbyist , and I do value fast rendering versus the old 'wait overnight and pray' method . My primary box runs an I7-3770K .. A colleague from work , who's not a' professional vidoegrapher' but is darn close, creates movies with special effects. He runs an i7 3770k . We both run 16 gig of memory . Neither of use 'placeholder' video cards; He uses a 670 gt , I use an AMD 7970 ( I would have gone lower, but there was an insane deal, so) . Sony Vegas utilizes OpenCL more and more , so I'd suggest a video card with 2 G of memory and decent OpenCL benchmarks. . Hex Core machines with lots of memory are for the 'rendering box' use case, where you have 1 or 2 dedicated machines handling the rendering non-stop.
IMHO , the 3930k would be great; just overkill. You won't need more than 16 g of memory, either. Combine 16g and 2g + on the video card and you're in business.
Throw a nice Dell Monitor ( you're there) an SSD or two and enough storage for humongous video files, and you can come in well under budget , and your wife will not be tied to the workspace.
 
sperho said:
How much real-world gain is there with the Sandy Bridge hexacore architecture compared to the Haswell 4 core architecture (4770K)?
Click to expand...
Not much. You're basically going to be dealing with almost no difference during interactive use, but favoring the Haswell quad, and maybe 30% or a bit faster on the rendering, assuming you'll be going to h.264.

In fact, I see more deficiencies in the 3930K compared to the 4770K, but maybe I'm not looking at the right benchmarks?
Click to expand...
Sandy Bridge-E is 2 CPU generations behind, for around 10-15% worse performance per thread, at similar speeds, and the i7-4770 runs at a bit faster speeds. Add that it's for non-pro use, and I'm not sure that LGA2011 is worth it. On a modern system, especially a quad with Hyperthreading, you'll still be able to use the PC just fine while it renders (granted, it will be a little slower), so if that's not making you money, differences of under +50% really don't matter all that much.

Unless you get a serious workstation for rendering, with multiple CPU sockets, the differences just aren't all that much between midrange CPUs and higher-end ones, and it really only matters if you're waiting on rendering a lot, and a little less of that waiting could result in making more money.

Oh, and I think we've all forgotten to ask: do you live near a Microcenter, by any chance?

Assuming not (cheaper CPU/mobo, if so), here's a bit splurgy Haswell build--IE, made to take a little off, rather than add more on, given your budget.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-4770 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($294.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Arctic Cooling ACFZI30 74.0 CFM Fluid Dynamic Bearing CPU Cooler ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock H87 Performance ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($112.86 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair XMS 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR3-1333 Memory ($234.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial M500 480GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($372.13 @ TigerDirect)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 650 Ti Boost 2GB Video Card ($168.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Arctic White) ATX Mid Tower Case ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic G 550W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($87.98 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $1586.89
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-07-14 16:39 EDT-0400)

So...

Case: it comes in white, black w/ a gray door. other good quiet full-size cases also have full doors (some uATX don't, though--I don't get what's up with that 🙂). For quiet operation, not using much power, you can swap the top fan to a 2nd input, select 5V (oh, it has a simplistic fan controller built in, too), and not mess with it again. No case is perfect, but the Define R4 you can just install into, and have a pretty quiet system, with no fuss.

Video card: probably overkill, honestly, but going down towards $100, the perf/$ just drops and drops and drops. An Asus passive GT 640 would be another, lower-performing option, that still has 2GB, decent outputs, is known-good for Vegas (not the cheapest, but with it installed, and case fans at 5V, you will probably need to check the case lights to see if the PC is on 🙂).

PSU: The G series is down to the S12II prices, now? Nice!

RAM: pretty much any CAS 9 or lower, 1.5V or lower, 1333-1866MHz DDR3 will be as good as any other. Every vendor has something around that price, if not a 32GB kit, 2x16GB kits. A 2x8GB 16GB kit would probably be better to start off with, really. Looser timings aren't terrible, but after a point, they can affect performance, and you generally don't pay more or less to get CAS 9.

CPU cooler: it was there, and it's good.

Motherboard: more than yo need, but no more than a good B85 board, given the -$20 CPU combo.

OS: Windows Pro allows you to use more than 16GB, and should you ever go that high, it would have been substantially cheaper to pay $30 more now, than an anytime upgrade cost.

SSD: ah, here's the real splurge! 480GB is big and expensive, but that also means you can fit a lot on there, in between moving files off to HDDs. It will be lightning-fast for writes, as well as reads, and it has a bit of bad block protection most don't (well, at least others that also have such performance). This absolutely would either not be there, or be a 120GB Samsung 840, with a lower budget.

And, the slightly lesser version:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-4770 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($294.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Arctic Cooling ACFZI30 74.0 CFM Fluid Dynamic Bearing CPU Cooler ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock H87 Performance ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($112.86 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Value Series 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1333 Memory ($55.98 @ Outlet PC)
Memory: G.Skill Value Series 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1333 Memory ($55.98 @ Outlet PC)
Storage: Plextor M5S Series 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($179.99 @ Microcenter)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GT 640 2GB Video Card ($103.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Arctic White) ATX Mid Tower Case ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic G 550W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($87.98 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $1206.72
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-07-14 17:08 EDT-0400)

The Plextor M5S is not new, but is around the price of the Samsung 840 non-pro, around the performance of it, and has generally proven to be reliable drive.

If I were doing it, I would do it like the above, but with a bigger SSD. A big SSD is not a good bang/buck option, but is a good convenience-improving option, allowing more coarse and lazy data management, between the main SSD drive, and data-only HDDs (speed of a current SSD, space of a 500GB HDD). IMO, it's more worth splurging on for this kind of setup than more RAM that you might never need, or an LGA2011 setup, but make no mistake that is more of a splurge-type, nice to have, kind of thing.
 
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snoylekim said:
Some real world guidance ..I'm an advanced video hobbyist , and I do value fast rendering versus the old 'wait overnight and pray' method . My primary box runs an I7-3770K .. A colleague from work , who's not a' professional vidoegrapher' but is darn close, creates movies with special effects. He runs an i7 3770k . We both run 16 gig of memory . Neither of use 'placeholder' video cards; He uses a 670 gt , I use an AMD 7970 ( I would have gone lower, but there was an insane deal, so) . Sony Vegas utilizes OpenCL more and more , so I'd suggest a video card with 2 G of memory and decent OpenCL benchmarks. . Hex Core machines with lots of memory are for the 'rendering box' use case, where you have 1 or 2 dedicated machines handling the rendering non-stop.
IMHO , the 3930k would be great; just overkill. You won't need more than 16 g of memory, either. Combine 16g and 2g + on the video card and you're in business.
Throw a nice Dell Monitor ( you're there) an SSD or two and enough storage for humongous video files, and you can come in well under budget , and your wife will not be tied to the workspace.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your reference point from a stated videography experience. I'm not totally sure that she'll go with Vegas, so if I go the 4770K route (I'm starting to not lean as heavily toward an 3930K rig), I may forego graphics altogether until she makes her decision. In Vegas, is the GPU utilized while editing or only during video file output crunching? If the former, I'll get the video card - I wouldn't want the lack of that color her opinion of the software's snappiness.
 
Thanks again lehtv... Cerb: thank you as well. You've given me much to research and if we go that route, maybe I can spring for a nice multi drive hot-swap bay for some convenient backup options (it's what I use for my photo editing rig and I love it...) Quick question until I do more reading on the SSD front: Why the M500 instead of the 840 Pro?
 
I agree with Cerb on the CPU. The Socket 115X CPUs have picked up enough single-threaded performance to make up for their having fewer cores.

Check out the Anandtech H.264 2-pass benchmark results. The 4770K is about 20% faster in the first pass whereas the the 3930K is about 20% faster in the second pass. There is about a 25/75 split between the first and second passes, so the 3930K is only 10% faster overall.
 
mfenn said:
I agree with Cerb on the CPU. The Socket 115X CPUs have picked up enough single-threaded performance to make up for their having fewer cores.

Check out the Anandtech H.264 2-pass benchmark results. The 4770K is about 20% faster in the first pass whereas the the 3930K is about 20% faster in the second pass. There is about a 25/75 split between the first and second passes, so the 3930K is only 10% faster overall.
Click to expand...

My original thinking was driven by visiting videography forums. My close review of Anand's benches made me ask the question and you just solidly confirmed it. I'm almost certain that I'm going to go the 4770K route now... Thanks...
 
sperho said:
Thanks again lehtv... Cerb: thank you as well. You've given me much to research and if we go that route, maybe I can spring for a nice multi drive hot-swap bay for some convenient backup options (it's what I use for my photo editing rig and I love it...) Quick question until I do more reading on the SSD front: Why the M500 instead of the 840 Pro?
Click to expand...
I was mostly going for avoidance of slower SSDs, for the more splurge-like setup, more-so than specifically zeroing in on the M500, and the 840 Pro 512GB is relatively expensive, for just 30GB more. It was more that, among what PCPP had listed, the M500 had a good Goldilocks' porridge position.

That said, the M500 has added parity, for some added protection against loss from a bad block or URE (unrecoverable read error)*, not unlike Sandforce drives' RAISE, capacitors to allow for sane crashing on power loss, and excellent performance, for its cost. Between the Samsung 840 Pro, Crucial M500, Corsair Neutron GTX, Sandisk Extreme II, or Seagate 600, you'd never notice a difference in actual use, even if you had them side-by-side, with a Windows desktop.

--
* If you do some research on this, do note that actual drives perform better than specified, so we're not at a point of paranoia being justified for anything but RAID 5 users, and flash is already coming out to allow ECC by the controller chip, which will allow more robust overall ECC in future SSDs. But, it is becoming enough of a practical problem to warrant being ever-more vigilant about backups (which it reads you've already got down).
 
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