System advice please

[1337Bryan]

I am weighing my options for building a computer system for my grandfather. He is currently on a 486, 16mb ram, 500mb harddrive... etc Increased performance is not the primary goal, though i suspect he will enjoy it. I want stability most of all (I dont want to get a phone call in the middle of the night telling me to come over quick and fix the damn thing )

Price is not the primary concern, though i would prefer to keep it under $500. He will be using it primarily for wordproccesing and internet use. There will be some 'kiddie' software on it for when my little cousins visit and whatnot. Im sure he will put a few golf games on it also. A moniter is not necissary, my parents bought him a new moniter last year and it is in good shape. I have a reasonable intel setup in mind, what i would really like is some help in pricing out and chosing stable, reliable AMD components. Performance and overclockability are not the issue, he wont need DDR ram, or software FSB adjustment .

on the intel side i think this setup would do fine:
* intel PIII-800EB -133fsb, why not?

*intel D815EPEA - reliable. onbord sound will be fine for him.

*512mb Kingston PC133 - I have it sitting here with no use for it... might as well give it a home

*Matrox G400 16mb - I am considering either this or an older ATI card (Raedon LE?). 3d performance is not an issue and 2d quality will be the primary concern.

*20gb hard drive 7200rpm - Id just go with whatever offered a better price... seagate, maxtor, WD

*Antec case + 300w PS

*CDrom, DVD, CDRW - I doubt he would use a dvd or cdrw... but they are cheap.

*mouse: Logitech optical, KBD: microsoft.

with shipping, tax, and all this should come to under $500.



What would you recomend for a comparable AMD setup?

 

[Insane3D]

How about this...

ECS K7S5A - $65

512mb Crucial DDR - $60

1.2ghz Athlon - $85

ATI 32mb Xpert2000 Pro - $35

Lite-on 16X CDRW - $75

or

Pioneer 16X DVD - $62

IBM 20GB 60GXP - $82

Logitech Optical Mouse - $14

Microsoft Internet Keyboard w/ Hotkeys - $17

Antec SX630 w/ 300W PSU - $65

Total with DVD drive - $485
Total with CDRW - $498

 

[JimmyJoe]

If performance is not an issue and reliablity is, what you have listed look great. An Intel MB with a P3 would work very well. Maybe even a 440BX MB. I would not go anywere near an ECS MB or an Athlon, given your requirements.

Unless you want that phone call.

 

[1337Bryan]

My first choice would have been the ECs and a duron or athlon... but i think the reliability of the intel board is worth the extra performance im giving up. Are there any AMD chipsets that are as reliable as the 815e?


I'm also trying to get an idea of what kind of OS to give him... he uses 95 now and i plan on giving him either 2000 or Xp on this new comp. My only real reason for going with XP is the built in remote administration tool. Does anyone have any first hand experience with that? I have heard of 'anti-aliased' fonts also... how good are these really? (I realize that these questions might be better suited to the OS forum... but um, yeah depending on which OS i chose my hardware needs might change... so yeah, its a hardware question )

 

[Insane3D]

The SIS chipset is just as reliable. All the systems I have built with it are on 24/7 and are used heavily. It's easy to setup and work with....but it sounds like you think it's not reliable..so I guess you should just get yourself an Intel setup since they are sooooooooo much more "reliable". Why did you even ask about AMD if you think they aren't reliable? For an OS, either XP or 2000 will do nicely...


Why do I even bother...?

 

[Jiggz]

Here we go again with the old adage. Intel is stable, reliable and the best! No siree! AMD is just as good if not better. The ECS is a perfect choice or even a Shuttle AK31 r.31. You can scale down the choices to 256 MB DDR and even go for a duron for CPU and probably would not even spent $400.00! Duron's are about as stable as P3's and probably as fast. If you want a little speed then go for a TB like 1.2 Ghz or even 1.0 Ghz.

 

[oldfart]

What you picked out looks like a nice sensible system that should suite his needs well and cause little support problems for you. It is quite a nice upgrade from the 486 . You could save a few $$ if you need to by going with a Celeron 800 - 1.1. The newer 100FSB chips perform pretty well and are reasonably priced. That 512 meg of ram is not just one 512 stick, correct?

 

[Insane3D]

"What you picked out looks like a nice sensible system that should suite his needs well and cause little support problems for you. It is quite a nice upgrade from the 486."

I'm sure it would be fine as well, but what makes you think that the same could not be said for the AMD setup? I realize you didn't actually say that it would cause less problems, but I'm confounded when people suggest more expensive, slower Intel setups to "avoid problems". Either setup could have problems, and both setups could be equally stable...

 

[oldfart]

<< ECS K7S5A - $65 >>


LOTS of people right here on this very board reporting all sorts of problems with this setup. Granted, not everyone, but enough for it not to fit what he asked for. That Intel mobo will be stable, and last for many years without question. I think the extra $40 - $50 spent for quality as opposed to a cheapie setup is a good idea for this application.

 

[Insane3D]

"LOTS of people right here on this very board reporting all sorts of problems with this setup. Granted, not everyone, but enough for it not to fit what he asked for. That Intel mobo will be stable, and last for many years without question. I think the extra $40 - $50 spent for quality as opposed to a cheapie setup is a good idea for this application."

That's fair, but most of the problems with the ECS are user error problems and are usually associated with weak PSU's and 1.4ghz thunderbirds. There are plenty of other slightly more expensive reliable motherboards for AMD. The Epox 8KHA/8KHA+, Iwill KK266 Plus, Asus A7V133, most MSI boards, etc, etc.... I just recently built three K7S5A/1ghz systems for some elderly customers and I have had only three calls...to thank me for the system. Two of the customers were couples over 65 that had only used the computers @ the local library. I set them up with those Video Professor courses and they loved it. Anyway...I guess this is pointless as no matter how much proof is shown that an AMD system can be completely reliable...it is never believed...

 

[Windogg]

Damn oldfart has beaten me again. Consider a nice 1Ghz or 1.1Ghz Celeron. Great perforamance for cheap. Picked up a nice 1.1Ghz for $70 + S&H from Newegg. The i815 + Celeron is great combo. I have noticed the average user does not want a vacumn cleaner sounding system a cooler chip like a sub-Ghz Celeron will also do. 800Mhz (100Mhz FSB) Celerons are cheap now. If you get an OEM CPU, a decent $7 - 8 Coolermaster heatsink fan will do just fine. They are quiet and offer good cooling performance.

I would also consider the 20GB or 40GB Seagate Barracuda IV. Great performance and the thing is dead silent. There is not even seek noise. Couple that with a Panaflo Low RPM (21dB) fan to keep the case cool.

I like the Matrox cards for 2D. The newer ones run on just a heatsink so that is one less fan.

Windogg

 

[Insane3D]

"Damn oldfart has beaten me again. Consider a nice 1Ghz or 1.1Ghz Celeron. Great perforamance for cheap. Picked up a nice 1.1Ghz for $70 + S&H from Newegg. The i815 + Celeron is great combo. I have noticed the average user does not want a vacumn cleaner sounding system a cooler chip like a sub-Ghz Celeron will also do. 800Mhz (100Mhz FSB) Celerons are cheap now.

I would also consider the 20GB or 40GB Seagate Barracuda IV. Great performance and the thing is dead silent. There is not even seek noise. Couple that with a Panaflo Low RPM (21dB) fan to keep the case cool.

I like the Matrox cards for 2D. The newer ones run on just a heatsink so that is one less fan.

Windogg "

Ugh...more assumptions. First, a lower speed Duron or even a 1ghz Thunderbird DOES NOT need a "vacumn cleaner" fan or extreme cooling. The systems I built used the $17 Taisol HSF's that not only uses all three lugs of the CPU socket for greater security, but also use a measly 24CFM (30db) fan that is extremely quiet. The Matrox cards do have slightly better 2D than the ATI card, but the ATI does not use a fan on the card either. Most older people are going to need dead silent anyway, but my point is that the exact same thing could be achieved with an AMD system... Also, a 1ghz Morgan core Duron would run even cooler and outperform the celly easily...although that is not much of an issue in this case.

 

[Pabster]

Celery? Please. If you're going to blow even $500 you can put together an AMD-based rig which will trample it (price and performance.)

Here's the "quiet" list, since some people seem so obsessed with noise:

Enlight 7237 w/ 340 watt PS - $60
Retail AMD Thunderbird 1.4GHz/266 (includes Taisol super-quiet HS/F) - $120
ECS K7S5A (hands down the best price/performance board out there) - $ 65
512MB Crucial PC2100 DDR - $70
ATI Radeon LE - $75
Seagate Barracuda IV 20.0GB 7200RPM - $85

That's a mere $475, plus or minus a few bucks as prices always fluctuate. I didn't include mouse/keyboard, but that isn't going to be a major expense. You can throw in your choice on the DVD or CD-RW, but if he won't use them, why purchase them?

The final point I'd like to make is that the K7S5A + 1.4GHz Bird + 512MB Crucial PC2100 offers an incredible amount of performance for so little money. There's no better buy on the market right now. Period. And no Intel configuration you could rig together in the same price range could offer even close to "comparable" performance -- plus you'd be stuck with ancient PC133 SDRAM and other inferior components. Just doesn't make sense. I realize some people are concerned about noise, but it isn't a problem. The Taisol HS/F included with the retail box models is ultra quiet and cools well. If you are really worried, throw in $35-$40 for a Swiftech MCX370 with the Papst fan. It is whisper silent and cools incredibly well. It also has the slickest mounting system, short of MC462-A.

With prices so low and performance levels so high, there just isn't reason to consider Celeries. You could swap out the 1.4 Thunderbird for a 1GHz Duron (Morgan core) which not only produces much less heat, but will still trample a piece of Celery The Duron is a very affordable and high performance option.

 

[Windogg]

People here seem to forget the psychological factor. Most older people will only use a Intel based system. You could take the crappiest Intel system and the best AMD system and the AMD will always "crash" more than the Intel system. When I build systems, I take the personality of the person in mind. My last 6 systems have been AMD 1.4Ghz TBirds but my next two will be Intel based systems. I could care less what brand I use. The system must fit the person.

Windogg

 

[Pabster]

Windogg wrote:

"People here seem to forget the psychological factor. Most older people will only use a Intel based system."

Oh, baloney. Most older people don't have the faintest idea what components are inside their case. All they know is it runs. Do you really think Gramps is going to scream about running an AMD-based machine? Let's be realistic here.

 

[Windogg]

Fine Pabster. Whatever you say. Give grandpa a little more credit.

Windogg

BTW, right next to right now are 2 x XP1800 Pallys, a Tyan Tiger MP, and 2 x 36GB Seagate X15 (8MB Cache), 64MB GeForce3, and SB Audigy Platinum to show that I have no biases against AMD or Intel. UPS just dropped it off.

 

[GregMal]

AMD vs Intel is kinda like debating religions. You're never gonna be persuasive.
All I can say is this......
I've been running a self built machine, Celeron 466, ASUS ZX MB, 128 megs PC100 ram,
WD 30 gig single platter, ATI Xpert 2000 and generic CDRom for over 1.5 years.
This is my home machine. My wife and 2 kids use it constantly. I'm running Win98SE on
it and I can count on 1 hand the number of times my family has called on me to help with
a hardware/software or BSOD problem.
Now I concede that AMD systems are nice, less expensive, more powerful etc.
But for peace of mind, no hassles, and yes, reliability my spring 2002 MB/CPU upgrade
will again be Intel........
Now as to the topic.........I would look at the new Tualatin compatible MBs. There are
some nice ones out there at good prices.....Soyo, ASUS, MSI, GigaByte, Biostar......
greg

 

[1337Bryan]

<< Anyway...I guess this is pointless as no matter how much proof is shown that an AMD system can be completely reliable...it is never believed... >>



Please. Read the first few pages here on the board, i think you will see just a few more threads dealing with ECS k7s5a problems than with 815e problems. While that doesnt mean it is bad or a poor value that does mean that i would prefer not to risk those problems in a situation where performance is not an issue. I have run an athlon since they were first introduced, just because i recognize that with some hardware configurations there are reports of problems doesnt make me an AMD bashing intel zelot, it makes me realistic.




<< The SIS chipset is just as reliable. All the systems I have built with it are on 24/7 and are used heavily. It's easy to setup and work with....but it sounds like you think it's not reliable..so I guess you should just get yourself an Intel setup since they are sooooooooo much more "reliable". Why did you even ask about AMD if you think they aren't reliable? For an OS, either XP or 2000 will do nicely... >>




if its not too much of a 'bother' do you think you could offer a bit more info on the SIS chipset you mentioned... sis735 i assume?










<< I'm also trying to get an idea of what kind of OS to give him... he uses 95 now and i plan on giving him either 2000 or Xp on this new comp. My only real reason for going with XP is the built in remote administration tool. Does anyone have any first hand experience with that? I have heard of 'anti-aliased' fonts also... how good are these really? (I realize that these questions might be better suited to the OS forum... but um, yeah depending on which OS i chose my hardware needs might change... so yeah, its a hardware question ) >>



any comments on remote administration with XP?