Sysprep and leased computers with OEM keys

[Booty]

I just started working for a new company. They lease their all their systems (IBM desktops and laptops), which come pre-installed with XP and a bunch of crap that we don't need on them (IBM help tools, Google Picasa, etc). We also have a bunch of apps we have to install on them for our users (of course). Before I got here, they were actually doing all updates, software installation/removal, etc. manually. I haven't worked with too many companies this size before, but I knew this was unnecessary, so I went looking for the solution. I found lots of information on sysprep and imaging, as well as a nice site that showed how to add more drivers to make your sysprep image more flexible.

All that worked fine, except for activation has been a pain. Sometimes it takes 3-4 reboots/tries to get it to activate (claims a timeout even though the network connection is otherwise perfectly fine). Recently, a machine claimed the key was bad even though we triple-checked and we're typing it in EXACTLY as it is on the COA sticker.

I'm seeing online that if we had VLM (Volume License Media) for XP, I coud use sysprep and ghost (acutally, acronis true image) without having to type in the unique CD-key and activate every machine, which would not only save those headaches, but would even save me a little time with the machines that DO work.

Long story short, my question is how do I get ahold of VL media considering these are leased machines with OEM licenses? I've looked around a bit on Microsoft's site, but am not getting the straight information on how to obtain what we need (and how much, if anything, it will cost). Anyone out there have a similar situation? Office is also a problem - manually entering/switching keys on every machine is such a waste of time if it can be avoided...

 

[spyordie007]

VL Media is easy to get your hands on, but you would also need volume licenses in order to use it (which is going to increase your cost by quite a bit).

If all you're looking for is to avoid activation configure your sysprep.inf to use the SLP pre-activated key during mini-setup (which is the one they use during their installs).

 

[spyordie007]

Oh yeah, and the reason you're having so much trouble activating using the COA key is not because you're entering it wrong; it's because they dont allow automatic activations with the big OEM's COA keys. This is intentional to stop people from ripping off the keys from those machines and using the license elsewhere.

 

[Tarrant64]

In response to your question about Office. (assuming you end up getting a volume license for this...not sure if you need it though)

If you are using Ghost, use the AutoInstall utility(AI Snapshot or something). Starting up AI Snapshot it will take a look at your system(snapshot). Go through with your Office install like you normally would. AI Snapshot will then take another look at your system and make the comparisons. Whatever changes it finds it will create a auto-install package for it, which one that's done, you can generate a builder. In the end you end up with an *.exe file. Whenever you run this it will automate the entire install of Office. All you gotta do is sit and wait.

Now as to the XP imaging and activation issue...What I had was a VL of XP, and once the PC was setup exactly how I wanted, I did an image and would deploy that image where I needed. No activation issues whatsoever.

I DIDN'T however use sysprep when doing the image. I use LANDesk software and for whatever reason getting sysprep configured right and having it deploy with LANDesk causes activation issues everytime. Or sometimes invalid key errors.

 

[gsellis]

The problem with going the VLA route is that you will end up paying for licenses twice unless you can work a deal with MS. Using the media without the correct licenses will get you in hot water.

Try from different angle. Do you ever use a setup script on your original builds in the previous VLA life? Our builds use a script from the syspreped image. On startup, it does an auto logon for admin and runs a script you put into startup as part of cmdlines.txt. Well, it was easy to adopt the same script as a CD autorun. Bring the OEM key up to admin and run it. OR, using Bart's PE, create a script to modify the OEM setup to be more complete (a script to modify the sysprep.inf, unattend.txt or ... brain fart - cannot remember what the OEM Setupkit file is called with all of your answers.)

 

[spyordie007]

The problem with going the VLA route is that you will end up paying for licenses twice unless you can work a deal with MS.

Client VLA OS licenses are always upgrades, so you have to first buy the OS to upgrade from (typically XP Home OEM since it's the cheapest that qualifies).

Try from different angle. Do you ever use a setup script on your original builds in the previous VLA life? Our builds use a script from the syspreped image. On startup, it does an auto logon for admin and runs a script you put into startup as part of cmdlines.txt. Well, it was easy to adopt the same script as a CD autorun. Bring the OEM key up to admin and run it. OR, using Bart's PE, create a script to modify the OEM setup to be more complete (a script to modify the sysprep.inf, unattend.txt or ... brain fart - cannot remember what the OEM Setupkit file is called with all of your answers.)

This is way more than the OP is looking for, he's having problems with activation of the COA keys (which wont let you automatically activate over the internet). The very simple, fast and supported solution is to use the SLP pre-activated keys as I have already said.

 

[Booty]

VL Media is easy to get your hands on, but you would also need volume licenses in order to use it (which is going to increase your cost by quite a bit).

If all you're looking for is to avoid activation configure your sysprep.inf to use the SLP pre-activated key during mini-setup (which is the one they use during their installs).

This document was linked to on another thread... after reading it, do you still think I would actually need volume licences in order to use it? I guess in the first line is says it's available to Volume Licensing customers - so I understand that just getting ahold of a copy of the VL media would not be legit unless it somehow came through Microsoft. Which I'm fairly sure would be a huge pain to acquire - especially since we wouldn't want/need to buy any additional software licenses.

Regarding the SLP key, I did a little googling and somewhat understand how that key works, but could use some clarification - is it simply a key given to OEMs (IBM, Dell, HP, etc) that allows them to make their images, install, then just slap a sticker on the side of the box? If that's the case, then the key on that sticker is never actually entered/stored on the PC at any point? Also, if so, how generic are the SLP keys? Is there just one key for each vendor, one key for each model (Dimension 4200, ThinkCentre M52, etc), or...? The reason I ask is simply so I know how flexible I can make an image. I came across this site last week when looking for information on using sysprep, and using that guide it sounds like I could put together an image that works on a TON of different systems, which would be ideal, because this company has all kinds of different models of systems out there. My ultimate goal would to just have a few images for the different departments, so that when a new machine comes in or, say, a hard drive dies on an existing box, we can just reimage the machine and roll it out with the correct configuration. This product key issue is the only real snag in it.

Oh yeah, and the reason you're having so much trouble activating using the COA key is not because you're entering it wrong; it's because they dont allow automatic activations with the big OEM's COA keys. This is intentional to stop people from ripping off the keys from those machines and using the license elsewhere.

I'm assuming that's because those keys are issued/tied to specific vendors and are pre-activated, and are never really actually tied to that specific machine (in the sense that they're never entered into/stored on the machine). So they have to be used in conjunction with the SLP key, right? That makes sense. So if I'm understanding this correctly, I can take a PC, install windows, set it up to my liking, use the key in this article in my sysprep.inf file, create the image and I'm good, yes? On the PC I create the image from does it matter what type of key is used? I'm assuming/hoping it wouldn't, since it's going to be replaced with the key from that article. If I have to enter the COA key for whichever machine when I apply the image, I'm fine with that - I'm not doing a fully unattended install anyway because I have to specify the computer name anyway - I just want to avoid failed activations and/or invalid key messages.

What's weird about the whole COA keys being designed to not allow automatic activation is that about 80% of the PCs so far have accepted the key and activated over the net. There's one particular model (slightly older, but not much) that is just refusing to go, though... I'm wondering if the company we're leasing these from isn't using the same type of key. Anyway, I don't care as long as I can finally create an image that works.

As for office...

Tarrant - that's not really what I'm looking for. I want office (and all other software) built into the image. Otherwise, I'd just push it through group policy. Either way, it sounds like I need VL media for office. Manually changing the CD key, though not ideal, is acceptable to me as long as it activates, though...

gsellis - Let me see if I'm understanding you correctly. What you guys are doing, instead of taking a new machine and essentially wiping out the existing installation with your image, you run a script that modifies that installation... sets it up how you want it, installs your software, etc. Is that right? It'd be cool if you could clarify a little.

The key to all of this for me is to make everything as standardized and automated as possible. Problem for me is, since I'm currently low man on the totem pole, I can't go and say "ok, we're going to do it this way"... I'm new, so I'm learning their way of doing things and just trying to improve on it a little at a time wherever I can. So if you have any other ideas or advice, that'd be awesome. Thanks for the replies so far!

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: Booty

gsellis - Let me see if I'm understanding you correctly. What you guys are doing, instead of taking a new machine and essentially wiping out the existing installation with your image, you run a script that modifies that installation... sets it up how you want it, installs your software, etc. Is that right? It'd be cool if you could clarify a little.

Yes. We have a Toughbook build and a Tablet build that have either a 3rd party support model or elements that the mfgr cannot seem to figure out how they got working. So, we changed a setup script (VBScript) that does directory creation, acl mods, registry mods, application setup, machine detect and setup per type (display settings), and security mods.

The effort you put into it depends on the volumn you have to support and the need for consistant or 3rd party support (field offices around the world or a mfgr distribution center.)

 

[Booty]

Originally posted by: gsellis

Originally posted by: Booty

gsellis - Let me see if I'm understanding you correctly. What you guys are doing, instead of taking a new machine and essentially wiping out the existing installation with your image, you run a script that modifies that installation... sets it up how you want it, installs your software, etc. Is that right? It'd be cool if you could clarify a little.

Yes. We have a Toughbook build and a Tablet build that have either a 3rd party support model or elements that the mfgr cannot seem to figure out how they got working. So, we changed a setup script (VBScript) that does directory creation, acl mods, registry mods, application setup, machine detect and setup per type (display settings), and security mods.

The effort you put into it depends on the volumn you have to support and the need for consistant or 3rd party support (field offices around the world or a mfgr distribution center.)

This works better for you than using group policy to push out settings and software? Just curious about what options are out there - I'm not a total newbie, but I definitely have a lot to learn about managing a larger environment.

 

[networkman]

Another tip for Office (assuming 2003) - when you patch it to SP2, there are two downloadable files you can use: the first is roughly 40 meg and assumes you have the Office CD to insert when the update is being done; the second is roughly 100 meg and includes all of the files necessary from the CD so that you don't have to have it present for the update(s).

We're in the process of building staff images now - using this 2nd larger file for the update eases issues concerning WSUS and pushing Office 2003 updates in the future to remote locations.

 

[Booty]

In case anyone's interested, to change/strip out the Office Key you just need to go to the registry... HKLM/Software/Microsoft/Office/[Version]/Registration/{GUID}. Rename/Delete the Digital and Product ID keys (or the whole registration folder I've read, but I just renamed the keys) - next time you open an office app you'll have to enter the key and activate. I'm just going to delete those registry keys before I sysprep the next image. It's still something to do manually, but at least it automated a couple small steps.

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: Booty

Originally posted by: gsellis

Originally posted by: Booty

gsellis - Let me see if I'm understanding you correctly. What you guys are doing, instead of taking a new machine and essentially wiping out the existing installation with your image, you run a script that modifies that installation... sets it up how you want it, installs your software, etc. Is that right? It'd be cool if you could clarify a little.

Yes. We have a Toughbook build and a Tablet build that have either a 3rd party support model or elements that the mfgr cannot seem to figure out how they got working. So, we changed a setup script (VBScript) that does directory creation, acl mods, registry mods, application setup, machine detect and setup per type (display settings), and security mods.

The effort you put into it depends on the volumn you have to support and the need for consistant or 3rd party support (field offices around the world or a mfgr distribution center.)

This works better for you than using group policy to push out settings and software? Just curious about what options are out there - I'm not a total newbie, but I definitely have a lot to learn about managing a larger environment.

Yes, because we can do it in a staging center (ours or a VARs), offline, or in a slow link location. Some of the settings would require custom ADMs (and finally have the server team doing one). Others are not covered in the GPO and use SECEDIT to change the ACLS on directories or registry keys. Our build is cross-platform too, so it may do deletes on certain systray items and set settings based on display type (laptops get custom settings per device.) We also have a could items that do not PnP install, so I have to PnP scan for the device and run an installer in phases.

But, that drifts from you orginal question. If there is demand, I can see if I can update my installer sample.

 

[nweaver]

If you have a lot of machines, I would move away from using Acronis, (not that it's a bad product) and into the relm of enterprise imaging. Landesk has already been mentioned, and is decent software. We use Altiris Deployment solution, and both allow for quick/easy configuration post install, and managment after the fact.

 

[spyordie007]

Originally posted by: Booty
This document was linked to on another thread... after reading it, do you still think I would actually need volume licences in order to use it?

Actually I didnt realze they allowed for it, but you are correct in that you'd still need the VLA to do it (it just means you wouldnt have to purchase additional licenses for every machine, so you could just buy one XP Pro license on your VLA and you'd be set).

Regarding the SLP key, I did a little googling and somewhat understand how that key works, but could use some clarification - is it simply a key given to OEMs (IBM, Dell, HP, etc) that allows them to make their images, install, then just slap a sticker on the side of the box? If that's the case, then the key on that sticker is never actually entered/stored on the PC at any point? Also, if so, how generic are the SLP keys? Is there just one key for each vendor, one key for each model (Dimension 4200, ThinkCentre M52, etc), or...?

You got it right, the OEM does all their installs using a single key that (so long as it's used on the right hardware) wont require activation. It varies OEM to OEM but most of them are just a single key for all their XP Pro builds (I can confirm that Dell is this way).

Not to long ago I built some images for Dell hardware that all used the OEM licenses; used the same sysprep.inf w/ the SLP pre-activated key for several differant hardware builds (laptops and desktops). Worked like a charm.

That makes sense. So if I'm understanding this correctly, I can take a PC, install windows, set it up to my liking, use the key in this article in my sysprep.inf file, create the image and I'm good, yes?

You are correct, I havent used that exact key but sounds like it will work.

 

[Booty]

Originally posted by: nweaver
If you have a lot of machines, I would move away from using Acronis, (not that it's a bad product) and into the relm of enterprise imaging. Landesk has already been mentioned, and is decent software. We use Altiris Deployment solution, and both allow for quick/easy configuration post install, and managment after the fact.

I don't think we have enough machines to justify that quite yet... or, rather, I don't think the company will be up for forking over any significant ammount of cash for such a package, and I'm definitely not yet in the position where I feel like my opinion has any weight. I'll definitely check out those solutions, though, if nothing else for future reference.

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: Booty

Originally posted by: nweaver
If you have a lot of machines, I would move away from using Acronis, (not that it's a bad product) and into the relm of enterprise imaging. Landesk has already been mentioned, and is decent software. We use Altiris Deployment solution, and both allow for quick/easy configuration post install, and managment after the fact.

I don't think we have enough machines to justify that quite yet... or, rather, I don't think the company will be up for forking over any significant ammount of cash for such a package, and I'm definitely not yet in the position where I feel like my opinion has any weight. I'll definitely check out those solutions, though, if nothing else for future reference.

you make it sound like you are working on more then 100 machines....

I'm not sure on Altiris license costs, but if used correctly, your mgmt time (money) goes way down per machine.

get managment thinking TCO

 

[Booty]

Yeah, it's more than 100 machines... maybe after I've been here a while longer I can get them thinking along those lines. Right now, I'm just hoping to find ways to improve things without asking anyone to spend any more money. From what I've heard around here, it took a lot just to get things to the point they are now (as in there were still 98 machines in use within the last year or two).