Synthetic oil vs regular oil...

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TheChort

Diamond Member
May 20, 2003
4,203
0
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Originally posted by: TheChort
synthetic oil is thinner than regular oil, which explains the leaks

In older cars where tubes are more worn out, you run the risk of leaks in switching to synthetic.
Synthetic oil is NOT "thinner" than regular oil.

Worn out tubes huh? What tubes are you speaking of? :p

If the engine does not leak before synthetic, it is unlikely that it will leak aftwerwards.

I don't know if you are right or not, but since you are so confident about your answers and I can't back mine up, this is a good lesson not to post unless I know enough...

<----- agrees not to offer advice he doesnt know about
 

d3n

Golden Member
Mar 13, 2004
1,597
0
0
Granted Eli, I'm not explicitly for 'high mileage' oil types. It was available at Wally world and I like to stay consistent on the rare occasion when I switch oil types. Seemed to not burn off as much as the previous Castrol, hence, my humble recommendation.
 

dug777

Lifer
Oct 13, 2004
24,778
4
0
Originally posted by: dug777
i use a heavier grade when i'm driving hard for at least a few days (like across Oz ), and a lighter grade in town for the rest of the time...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Careful there. City driving is actually severe service compared to highway travel.

i was working on the premise that most of my city stuff is short distance and thus my engine needs oil that will quickly lube everthing without having to get too hot....

wheras for long distance i just fire it up and it goes all day so that longer warmup period doesnt matter so much, and my car uses less of the heavier grade than the lighter stuff on long hot runs...
 
Aug 27, 2002
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eli, the mechanic proved it was the oil. (I'm no mechanic mind you) it had some kind of grannular "rubbery stuff" that built up in the oil pickup unit, all the gaskets where in perfect condition as was the oil filter. they (the repair shop) had some guy from penziol come in and look at it, and he signed off on it as it being the oil. and penzoil paid for the replacement engine. (the penzoil guy didn't ask for proof of brand/weight past 12k miles, which for me at the time was only 2 1/2 moths of driving)

it always amazes me the strong feelings people have toward oil on these forums, lol these threads get as bad as religion threads in ATOT.
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
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Originally posted by: dug777
Originally posted by: dug777
i use a heavier grade when i'm driving hard for at least a few days (like across Oz ), and a lighter grade in town for the rest of the time...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Careful there. City driving is actually severe service compared to highway travel.

i was working on the premise that most of my city stuff is short distance and thus my engine needs oil that will quickly lube everthing without having to get too hot....

wheras for long distance i just fire it up and it goes all day so that longer warmup period doesnt matter so much, and my car uses less of the heavier grade than the lighter stuff on long hot runs...
Ahh.

Well, your engine oil reaches the same operating temperature after 15 or 20 minutes nomatter what it's viscosity. Infact, using too heavy a viscosity can actually raise temperatures due to more friction.

So what you're really concerned about is startup lubrication.

Use a 0W or 5W oil. If you use virtually any synthetic, you should not have to worry about startup lubrication.
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
81
Originally posted by: lobadobadingdong
eli, the mechanic proved it was the oil. (I'm no mechanic mind you) it had some kind of grannular "rubbery stuff" that built up in the oil pickup unit, all the gaskets where in perfect condition as was the oil filter. they (the repair shop) had some guy from penziol come in and look at it, and he signed off on it as it being the oil. and penzoil paid for the replacement engine. (the penzoil guy didn't ask for proof of brand/weight past 12k miles, which for me at the time was only 2 1/2 moths of driving)

it always amazes me the strong feelings people have toward oil on these forums, lol these threads get as bad as religion threads in ATOT.
Interesting....

I guess since you don't fully understand it, you can't fully explain it.. Kinda has me stumped, but I believe you. Maybe the Pennzoil guy was late for lunch and wanted to get out of there or something. He didn't even ask for proof that you had changed the oil on schedule? Or that you were even using Pennzoil?? Bizarre........
 
Aug 27, 2002
10,043
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Originally posted by: Eli
Originally posted by: lobadobadingdong
eli, the mechanic proved it was the oil. (I'm no mechanic mind you) it had some kind of grannular "rubbery stuff" that built up in the oil pickup unit, all the gaskets where in perfect condition as was the oil filter. they (the repair shop) had some guy from penziol come in and look at it, and he signed off on it as it being the oil. and penzoil paid for the replacement engine. (the penzoil guy didn't ask for proof of brand/weight past 12k miles, which for me at the time was only 2 1/2 moths of driving)

it always amazes me the strong feelings people have toward oil on these forums, lol these threads get as bad as religion threads in ATOT.
Interesting....

I guess since you don't fully understand it, you can't fully explain it.. Kinda has me stumped, but I believe you. Maybe the Pennzoil guy was late for lunch and wanted to get out of there or something. He didn't even ask for proof that you had changed the oil on schedule? Or that you were even using Pennzoil?? Bizarre........
he did ask for proof, but only for the last 12k miles, the mechanic told him I was religious at maintenance (which I am) and the pennzoil guy let it go at that after looking at the last 3 oil change reciepts. (he took the oil pickup and the "rubbery stuff" with him to send it to thier lab) he and the mechanic had no idea what it was, and the pennzoil guy never got back with us to let us know....to me that was the bizarre part.
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
81
I'm not be all end all oil expert. I've done a lot of research yes, but it seems that I just.. "get it". This stuff is common sense to me.

I can't stress this next part enough, and this is what I mean when I said that when it comes to engine longevity, there are things more important than the specific oil you use.

Just sit and think about this for a minute. Visualize it in your head.

Any and [/b]all[/b] oil, whether it be military certified NASA space shuttle oil or Liquid Wrench is completely worthless if it has solid particles in it.

Realize what this means. Have you figured it out yet?

That's right. Your oil filter is more important than the oil you use.

As long as you never let your oil become unlubricating sludge, the only thing standing between you and ultimate engine longevity is your oil and air filters.
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
81
Originally posted by: lobadobadingdong
Originally posted by: Eli
Originally posted by: lobadobadingdong
eli, the mechanic proved it was the oil. (I'm no mechanic mind you) it had some kind of grannular "rubbery stuff" that built up in the oil pickup unit, all the gaskets where in perfect condition as was the oil filter. they (the repair shop) had some guy from penziol come in and look at it, and he signed off on it as it being the oil. and penzoil paid for the replacement engine. (the penzoil guy didn't ask for proof of brand/weight past 12k miles, which for me at the time was only 2 1/2 moths of driving)

it always amazes me the strong feelings people have toward oil on these forums, lol these threads get as bad as religion threads in ATOT.
Interesting....

I guess since you don't fully understand it, you can't fully explain it.. Kinda has me stumped, but I believe you. Maybe the Pennzoil guy was late for lunch and wanted to get out of there or something. He didn't even ask for proof that you had changed the oil on schedule? Or that you were even using Pennzoil?? Bizarre........
he did ask for proof, but only for the last 12k miles, the mechanic told him I was religious at maintenance (which I am) and the pennzoil guy let it go at that after looking at the last 3 oil change reciepts. (he took the oil pickup and the "rubbery stuff" with him to send it to thier lab) he and the mechanic had no idea what it was, and the pennzoil guy never got back with us to let us know....to me that was the bizarre part.
Ahh, I see. Interesting. Sounds like you kinda got lucky..

I wonder if the oil really did cause it.. Bad batches of Pennzoil sent to your area maybe? I know I saw a thread on BITOG regarding a Virgin Oil Analysis on some Pennzoil oil that showed extremely low additive values.
 

DainBramaged

Lifer
Jun 19, 2003
23,454
41
91
Originally posted by: Eli
Umm, incase any of you didn't get it, that was a joke... lol


Originally posted by: lobadobadingdong
use the same oil, brand and weight that you have been using in it.

never never never never never change the brand/weight of oil you use in an engine once you make you're first oil change after the break in oil.
Please. Complete horsesh!t.
Originally posted by: bret
mineral oil is good for breaking in an engine, then change to synthetic... i use mobil 1 5w 30.
Bleh, you can use whatever oil you want for breakin. There is not an oil on the planet that will "prevent" an engine from breaking in. Should anybody invent such a thing, well.. we'll all know about it.

Synthetic oil manufacturers don't recommend using their oils for breakin because it is pointless. Why bother using expensive synthetic oil when it is going to be fouled because of solid particles in ~1,000 miles? Use the cheapest oil you can find. There's no need to go non-detergent or anything "fancy", unless you know what you're doing and are going to break it in, in your garage and around the block. Most people just drive normally during break-in, and in that case the additives in regular engine oil are going to help, especially if they go beyond the specified break-in period.
Originally posted by: dug777
i use a heavier grade when i'm driving hard for at least a few days (like across Oz ;) ), and a lighter grade in town for the rest of the time...
Careful there. City driving is actually severe service compared to highway travel.
Originally posted by: TheChort
synthetic oil is thinner than regular oil, which explains the leaks

In older cars where tubes are more worn out, you run the risk of leaks in switching to synthetic.
Synthetic oil is NOT "thinner" than regular oil.

Worn out tubes huh? What tubes are you speaking of? :p

If the engine does not leak before synthetic, it is unlikely that it will leak aftwerwards.
Originally posted by: d3n
I'll tend to agree with this. However I think this goes for more of a high mileage vehicle that was previously dino juice. Going Synthetic can really knock allot of the build up loose and clog everything up after a couple years have gone by. I know that it has 'killed off' some cars. I figure you would be ok on the first year or two if you switch from regular to synthetic.

Since you have a 97 I would go for Castrol High Mileage Dino.
There is nothing special about Castrol or the "High Milage" oils. They may have a bit more aggressive additive package, but.. you should have that anyway.

There is no evidence that synthetic oil will "knock" anything loose. While quality synthetic oils do contain a more robust additive package, the detergency difference isn't that profound.

Originally posted by: lobadobadingdong
if you lose an engine, (I've lost 2) and the fault is with the oil, the oil company pays for your replacement engine. if you can't prove that you've had the same oil brand/weight in the engine from the get go, you pay for your replacement engine. go ask any certified mechanic.

of course if you don't know what was used all along, or have already switched oils in the past, it really doesn't matter that much, as long as it's quaility oil, if you have build up problems, I'd use an additive like Restore for one oil change and continue using what you're using now. aluminum block engines don't have near the same issues as steel blocks, and longivity is more of an issue of wear, and worn out gaskets. (my 99 ranger had 287k miles on it with out anything done to it aside from normal maintance....brakes/shocks/tranny service/etc.) when I traded it in.

Penzoil paid for my 2nd engine that blew btw.
Ok, I was with you for the first paragraph, and then you recommended using an oil additive. Folks, DO NOT under any circumstances put ANYTHING into your crankcase but pure, virgin, unadulterated engine oil.

Let's hear more about these replaced engines. First, how on Earth did you go about proving beyond a reasonable doubt that it was the oil's fault that your engine failed? It's virtually impossible, although they would probably oblige you IF you prooved that you had been using nothing but Pennzoil for the entire life of the engine. Was this indeed the case?
Originally posted by: KarenMarie
That is EXACTLY what my b/f said... he is an expert....

he said that if you were gonna change, you should have done it after break in. Now you need to stick with what you already have.
If your boyfriend said that, he may be an expert - but it's not at engine oil. :) There is no logical reasoning for that stance. It doesen't make any sense.

*pant*

Eli, thanks for saving me the time.

 

jagec

Lifer
Apr 30, 2004
24,442
6
81
Originally posted by: Eli
Originally posted by: d3n
I'll tend to agree with this. However I think this goes for more of a high mileage vehicle that was previously dino juice. Going Synthetic can really knock allot of the build up loose and clog everything up after a couple years have gone by. I know that it has 'killed off' some cars. I figure you would be ok on the first year or two if you switch from regular to synthetic.

Since you have a 97 I would go for Castrol High Mileage Dino.
There is nothing special about Castrol or the "High Milage" oils. They may have a bit more aggressive additive package, but.. you should have that anyway.

The guys on theoildrop forums seemed to like molybdenum as a high-mileage oil additive...
 

d3n

Golden Member
Mar 13, 2004
1,597
0
0
My take on the issue of oil filters is that it is hard to go wrong with OEM filters. Buy a big box from the dealer and use them on your oil changes. Spec'd out for your car by the engine designers. Worth the money over the cheapies from AutoZone or the extra wear of 'high performance'

Edit: Also: make sure that your oil seal comes off with the filter. That oil leak sometimes is a old seal stuck to the oil pan with a new filter and seal slapped on top. The only way to deal with that is to drain and redo.
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
81
Originally posted by: dartworth
I didn't think anyone used Penzoil anymore...
Why is that?

Keep in mind that I'm not brand loyal, I go by the oil's specifications alone.

Pennzoil's petroleum oil lineup is good and solid, middle grade, all throughout the viscosity ranges.

Which brings me to my next point... You absolutely cannot compare oils of the same brands and different viscosity, let alone different brands of the same viscosity.

Pennzoil 5W-30 may suck while Pennzoil 10W-30 may rule(that's not the case, just an example).

Their synthetics leave something to be desired. Mostly because, for whatever reason, they don't publish the Flash Point of them.... so you have to assume it's the default minimum of 392ºF, which would be horrid.
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,976
141
106
..moble1 10-30 in my truck..also use it in my generators (honda)..workem real good.
 

amdskip

Lifer
Jan 6, 2001
22,530
13
81
Listen to Eli. Don't change over with a motor with that many miles.

I changed my 96' civic over to amsoil at 60,000 miles without any problems.

Why do I use Amsoil? My family drag races and we have done real world tests with Amsoil products and it has done extremely well. Tranny runs so much cooler and the internals are beautiful when we tear them open. Rear ends last forever with amsoil, etc.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
high mileage oils have additives that swell the worn seals. synthetic is what you can use..if your engine is not old and already eating oil. costs more...whether its worth it to you. personal decision.
 

jagec

Lifer
Apr 30, 2004
24,442
6
81
Originally posted by: d3n
My take on the issue of oil filters is that it is hard to go wrong with OEM filters. Buy a big box from the dealer and use them on your oil changes. Spec'd out for your car by the engine designers. Worth the money over the cheapies from AutoZone or the extra wear of 'high performance'

Yeah, the Toyota filters for my car seem to be pretty well designed...they even had a cutaway at the place.

Plus, I get a 25% discount.
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
81
Originally posted by: jagec
Originally posted by: Eli
Originally posted by: d3n
I'll tend to agree with this. However I think this goes for more of a high mileage vehicle that was previously dino juice. Going Synthetic can really knock allot of the build up loose and clog everything up after a couple years have gone by. I know that it has 'killed off' some cars. I figure you would be ok on the first year or two if you switch from regular to synthetic.

Since you have a 97 I would go for Castrol High Mileage Dino.
There is nothing special about Castrol or the "High Milage" oils. They may have a bit more aggressive additive package, but.. you should have that anyway.

The guys on theoildrop forums seemed to like molybdenum as a high-mileage oil additive...
I really should hang out there more. I don't know why I don't.

I wouldn't doubt at all that some of the oil additives out there can indeed be beneficial. But the theory is that; the oil manufacturers have spent millions in R&D, perfecting their additive package formulas. You just have no idea what your added chemicals are going to do to that balance. But I digress.. Most of the people over there are hardcore and do oil analysis, so they're more free to experiment.. Although we can certainly put that information to use. I'll have to look into it.

Why not just use an oil that has a high Moly package in the first place?

I really, really like the Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 diesel oil we've been running in the Camry and my Chevy PU(350).

 

dartworth

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
15,200
10
81
I was refering to Pennzoil's synthetics.

Royal Purple, Amsoil, or Mobil 1 are excellent.

and always use a Mobile 1 filter;)
 

jagec

Lifer
Apr 30, 2004
24,442
6
81
Originally posted by: Eli
I really should hang out there more. I don't know why I don't.

I wouldn't doubt at all that some of the oil additives out there can indeed be beneficial. But the theory is that; the oil manufacturers have spent millions in R&D, perfecting their additive package formulas. You just have no idea what your added chemicals are going to do to that balance. But I digress.. Most of the people over there are hardcore and do oil analysis, so they're more free to experiment.. Although we can certainly put that information to use. I'll have to look into it.

Why not just use an oil that has a high Moly package in the first place?

I really, really like the Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 diesel oil we've been running in the Camry and my Chevy PU(350).

Oh, I certainly wasn't making a case for additives. I was saying that the oildrop guys claimed that the high-mileage oils usually had a high moly package, and thus could actually be a good idea for older engines. I think Pennzoil had the highest moly count? I could be mistaken, though.
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
81
It sucks that my Dad doesen't drive very much, lol.. It's going to be a long time before I can run the next test on the Camry's oil, since we've gotten the headgasket fixed.

Incase anybody missed my previous posts about it, the oil was in the crankcase for 8 months and 4,800 miles before it was changed and analyzed. The analysis revealed a head gasket leak, which was severely degrading the oil. Dispite this, the wear numbers were almost amazingly low, due to the extremely robust nature of the Mobil Delvac 15W-40.

I hypothesize that since the headgasket has been fixed, the oil will be good for approximately 1 year and 7500 miles, since it had just started to fail at 4800 with the extreme coolant contamination.

Remember that Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 is a petroleum oil. :) It just happens to be one of the best petroleum oils money can buy. And it's cheap!

$5.77/gallon($1.44/quart) at Wal-Mart.
 

QuitBanningMe

Banned
Mar 2, 2005
5,038
2
0
Originally posted by: lobadobadingdong
eli, the mechanic proved it was the oil. (I'm no mechanic mind you) it had some kind of grannular "rubbery stuff" that built up in the oil pickup unit, all the gaskets where in perfect condition as was the oil filter. they (the repair shop) had some guy from penziol come in and look at it, and he signed off on it as it being the oil. and penzoil paid for the replacement engine. (the penzoil guy didn't ask for proof of brand/weight past 12k miles, which for me at the time was only 2 1/2 moths of driving)

it always amazes me the strong feelings people have toward oil on these forums, lol these threads get as bad as religion threads in ATOT.

BS. In case nobody else said so.
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
81
Originally posted by: dartworth
I was refering to Pennzoil's synthetics.

Royal Purple, Amsoil, or Mobil 1 are excellent.

and always use a Mobile 1 filter;)
Surprisingly enough, Mobil1 is only a midrange synthetic. But, it is probably the cheapest and most readily available.

When it comes to 10W-30, there appproximately 10 synthethc oils and 3 conventional oils that are "better" than Mobil1;

Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 10W-30(Conventional)
Precision 102P 10W-30(Conventional)
Citgo Citgard 600 10W-30(Conventional)
Valvoline SynPower Racing 10W-30
Exxon Superflo Synthetic 10W-30
Valvoline VR-1 Racing Synthetic 10W-30
Valvoline HP Syn 10W-30
Chevron Supreme Synethetic 10W-30
Havoline Synthetic 10W-30
Valvoline SynPower 10W-30
AMSOil XL7500 10W-30
Neo Synthetic 10W-30
AMSOil 10W-30

Keep in mind that most of these oils are so close in performance that you would be hard pressed to find any discernable differences in any aspect...