SWTOR f2p

[Fanatical Meat]

I never really played it other than a beta invite I received, wasn't my thing. Could someone who knows more than I educate me why its so damn expensive to make an MMO & why they all either shoot for $15 per month or free to play.
Why aren't there cheaper game engines that can be made into decent MMO'S for a low cost. Can it really be salaries? Unemployment is high & game companies seem to work people like dogs. Why only two viable models? Why not $40-60 upfront then $7 per month or $50 for 12 for 12 months.
Could it really be executives making poor decisions? Doesn't anyone understand that a WOW like game that costs $15 per month is in the express lane for the fail boat?
Rant complete.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

I think part of the problem is the availability of old MMOs that are going free 2 play, the market is just too saturated. I mean, in the shooter market, players want new graphics a lot faster. But, at least in my guessing, I would think that MMO players are a bit less focused on graphics and are more focused on social stuff and with older MMORPGs going free 2 play you can keep in touch with old friends for free. I think EQ and other older games are going to have to fully die so that new games can live.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Good point, I want people to be successful making games so we see decent quality ones. I guess why does it cost so much to make a game, why is a 10 million budget with somewhere around 100k people paying $7 per month and $60 upfront a bad plan, assuming its decent they'll make it back in a few months.

 

[micrometers]

it is not a good game. I'm having a hard time justifying spending time in the game, even for free.

Something's just a little off about the animations and combat.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Good point, I want people to be successful making games so we see decent quality ones. I guess why does it cost so much to make a game, why is a 10 million budget with somewhere around 100k people paying $7 per month and $60 upfront a bad plan, assuming its decent they'll make it back in a few months.

Graphics are getting REALLY good. I don't know anything about this kind of thing, but surely in the next 5-10 years an engine could be made that's so capable of graphics and physics that it could last 20 years and the costs of making it could be, uh, what's the word? Depreciated? Amortized? Whatever the word is, by not having to make a new engine for every game, each game wouldn't have to bear the accounting brunt of the engine's cost.

I don't know how long ForgeLight will last, but SOE seems to already be hitting this efficiency with it being used for both Planetside 2 and EQ Next.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Swtor is one of the biggest MMO fiaskos.

The game is just too dumbed- and watered down.

They went from something like 2mio subs to maybe 200-300K in around ½ a year. Empty and barren servers cept a handful.

 

[micrometers]

Swtor is one of the biggest MMO fiaskos.

The game is just too dumbed- and watered down.

They went from something like 2mio subs to maybe 200-300K in around ½ a year. Empty and barren servers cept a handful.

it's weird.

It feels like the game was designed by committee, you know? It lacks individual artistic flair I feel.

 

[ShintaiDK]

it's weird.

It feels like the game was designed by committee, you know? It lacks individual artistic flair I feel.

I think it was a game not to be played. But directed instead.

 

[sushicide]

Exactly.

It takes them FOREVER to add things everybody had been asking for since early beta, it's like they cannot make a real decisions without loops of meetings after meetings.

Corporate bureaucratization FTL

 

[Fanatical Meat]

last few mmos I've tried I felt like they lacked any "love" its like they were banged together by a committee and nobody showed pride in what was created.

 

[ShintaiDK]

last few mmos I've tried I felt like they lacked any "love" its like they were banged together by a committee and nobody showed pride in what was created.

Same, only MMO I like is GW2.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Before WoW, MMORPGs were a niche.

SWTOR is WoW in space - the "single player" story is better than WoW, but the rest of the game is actually worse than WoW.

Additionally, there are better and cheaper single player RPGs than SWTOR:

The market for WoW is already playing WoW.

 

[kyrax12]

What makes WoW so great?

 

[videogames101]

What makes WoW so great?

Well, when it was first released, it was difficult.

Now, people play it because they've always played it.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Well, when it was first released, it was difficult.

Now, people play it because they've always played it.

I have not played it, how was it difficult compared to the ways EQ was considered difficult?

 

[Jeff7181]

I never really played it other than a beta invite I received, wasn't my thing. Could someone who knows more than I educate me why its so damn expensive to make an MMO & why they all either shoot for $15 per month or free to play.
Why aren't there cheaper game engines that can be made into decent MMO'S for a low cost. Can it really be salaries? Unemployment is high & game companies seem to work people like dogs. Why only two viable models? Why not $40-60 upfront then $7 per month or $50 for 12 for 12 months.
Could it really be executives making poor decisions? Doesn't anyone understand that a WOW like game that costs $15 per month is in the express lane for the fail boat?
Rant complete.

It requires infrastructure to run an MMO. Infrastructure of that magnitude is not cheap, even if you use commodity servers.

This is from 2009, the specs have no doubt grown...

"To maintain the online game World of Warcraft Blizzard has 13,250 blade servers, with a total of 75,000 CPU cores and terabytes of 112.5 terabytes of RAM. The servers host requires 1.3 petabytes of data storage. It employs 4600 people at the game."

With those kind of specs, you're talking close to $100 million in hardware. Add recurring costs like floor space, utilities, software licensing, network connections and staff and the development costs start to look cheap.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

All that stuff scales, though. A game that has 500,000 subscribers can still make a profit, it won't need 13000 servers, 75000 CPU cores or the full 4600 service and tech people. But companies today don't just want to make a profit, they want to hit a grand slam and make the next WoW at 13 million subscribers. An RBI, or even a home run isn't enough anymore, it's got to be a grand slam.

I'm actually answering a question that wasn't really asked - WoW is the game who commands WoW's audience. Everyone else is trying to go for WoW's 13 million instead of just catering to their own 500,000 or 1,000,000 sized playerbases. And look what it's doing to TOR.

 

[kyrax12]

I have not played it, how was it difficult compared to the ways EQ was considered difficult?

I heard the WoW PVP was one of the most difficult in all of MMORPGs.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

I heard the WoW PVP was one of the most difficult in all of MMORPGs.

Difficult to master the mechanics to even get started, or the game makes the skill ceiling high such that skilled players can dominate lesser skilled? Or some other way?

 

[kyrax12]

Difficult to master the mechanics to even get started, or the game makes the skill ceiling high such that skilled players can dominate lesser skilled? Or some other way?

I want to say both.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

I want to say both.

Ah...I was not even thinking about PvP, actually, but instead, of difficulty in terms of how long you have to camp a mob until you get a certain drop, that kind of thing.

 

[GaiaHunter]

WoW had polished game play, removed most of the inconveniences crawling in the genre.

It was a professional game in the middle of amateurs.

So, WoW attracted players to it that had never or would ever play a MMORPG if it wasn't for the (then) Blizzard seal of quality.

The problem is that the devs looked at it and mistook the WoW market for MMORPG market.

Players have invested thousand of dollars and thousand of hours in WoW. WHy will they toss it away to play a game that it is just like it (and most of the WoW clones have worse game play)?

Now, current day WoW isn't the same as Vanilla or The Burning Crusade WoW - making an everlasting game with a focus on after level cap means that the best bits of the previous content (that used to be the after level cap) are lost.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

1. WoW had polished game play, removed most of the inconveniences crawling in the genre.

2. Players have invested thousand of dollars and thousand of hours in WoW. WHy will they toss it away to play a game that it is just like it (and most of the WoW clones have worse game play)?

1. Again, I don't know how easy WoW was compared to EQ in terms of grinding time required to level, camping time to get gear, but does that polish you speak of HAVE to go hand in hand with a game where you're max level in a week and raiding is only for 6 people?
2. I'm more interested in the fact that people won't leave until their friends do even if they start wanting to. And, I've heard talk of some companies planning to leave the old games up as long as they can, or at least I think SOE has said that. Especially with more and more people on free 2 play, aren't they eventually going to have to pull the plug or newer games can't enter the market?

 

[GaiaHunter]

You wouldn't reach level 60 in WoW in a week back then.

Still it wasn't a second job compared to EQ.

Polish as in controls were tight, camera was tight, great UI, etc.

Additionally the combat was faster and more visceral. Quests made the game feel less grindy then.

WoW is already on the descending course and it is only less obvious due to how Asia "subs work" - I wouldn't be surprised if WoW in the West was under 4 millions.

Friends will move to newer games together.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

You wouldn't reach level 60 in WoW in a week back then.

Still it wasn't a second job compared to EQ.

Polish as in controls were tight, camera was tight, great UI, etc.

Additionally the combat was faster and more visceral. Quests made the game feel less grindy then.

WoW is already on the descending course and it is only less obvious due to how Asia "subs work" - I wouldn't be surprised if WoW in the West was under 4 millions.

Well, as I say I have not played WoW, so the "max level in a week" comment was mostly aimed at ToR. A week might have been an exaggeration but I definitely remember being 40 something and well on the way to 50 in about 2 weeks when I played.