Switching chipsets so frequently...

[ArchAngel777]

With the current price of DDR2 coming down to acceptable price levels, I am very tempted to pickup some cheap DDR2. However, I feel that AMD burned many of us when they went to AM2 and dropped 939. I personally, was pretty ricked off. There was no upgrade path to AM2 and I believe it was all the result of AMD wanted to look a little better on the benchmarks, by giving itself every edge it could use (the requirement of DD2). Anyway, that is my rant...

BUT, I came here for a question. How long can we expect Intel to support the 965/975 platform? I guess I have been burned so many types with chipset changes that I am real leary to buy anything these days with a planned upgrade... I suppose I should know this answer, but I haven't really kept up on all of this lately... Been slacking.

Thanks!

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777
How long can we expect Intel to support the 965/975 platform?

Why, they've already replaced the 965 as the current top of the line chipset. You hadn't heard? It's called the P35. And don't expect AMD to be any different; why did you think they bought a company that makes AMD chipsets?

 

[hans007]

well intel typically changes the chipset whenever a new cpu spec comes out.

the only real difference with p35 and 965 is the 1333 bus. the 975 isn't even the same platform as the 965, its more based on the 945 set than anything (uses the same ich7).


I suppose amd has less chipsets because it is hyper transport, but the intel chipsets are all so similar that each changes is very small.

 

[Aeros]

I bought the new P35 Asus P5k3...That said I strongly regret purchasing the DDR3 only mobo. Prices on DDR3 are over the top and availability is a joke.

Now is a great time I feel to have got on the DDR2 train; for all the reasons you stated. As well as the "new" P35 also has support for DDR2.

That will carry you out for the next few yr's for sure.

 

[coldpower27]

Originally posted by: Aeros
I bought the new P35 Asus P5k3...That said I strongly regret purchasing the DDR3 only mobo. Prices on DDR3 are over the top and availability is a joke.

Now is a great time I feel to have got on the DDR2 train; for all the reasons you stated. As well as the "new" P35 also has support for DDR2.

That will carry you out for the next few yr's for sure.

Get a hybrid motherboard so you can get with DDR2 now and hop on DDR3 if you do so desire later.

 

[f4phantom2500]

Well to be fair, Intel has used the same CPU socket for quite a bit of time now; you can still use the original 775 Prescott chips on new Intel motherboards, so there's still support for older hardware there, I dunno what you mean about not having an upgrade path?

 

[Aeros]

Originally posted by: coldpower27

Originally posted by: Aeros
I bought the new P35 Asus P5k3...That said I strongly regret purchasing the DDR3 only mobo. Prices on DDR3 are over the top and availability is a joke.

Now is a great time I feel to have got on the DDR2 train; for all the reasons you stated. As well as the "new" P35 also has support for DDR2.

That will carry you out for the next few yr's for sure.

Get a hybrid motherboard so you can get with DDR2 now and hop on DDR3 if you do so desire later.

Hybrids limit you one the amount of RAM you can use and ultimatly are dead ends

 

[coldpower27]

Originally posted by: Aeros

Originally posted by: coldpower27

Originally posted by: Aeros
I bought the new P35 Asus P5k3...That said I strongly regret purchasing the DDR3 only mobo. Prices on DDR3 are over the top and availability is a joke.

Now is a great time I feel to have got on the DDR2 train; for all the reasons you stated. As well as the "new" P35 also has support for DDR2.

That will carry you out for the next few yr's for sure.

Get a hybrid motherboard so you can get with DDR2 now and hop on DDR3 if you do so desire later.

Hybrids limit you one the amount of RAM you can use and ultimatly are dead ends

They are more of stepping stones then dead ends, if you get a P35 Hybrid motherboard now, you can get DDR2 with a Core 2 Duo 65nm, and upgrade to Core 2 Quad 45nm, and DDR3 later.

And when you actually need to get more DDR3, you can make the final jump and reuse the DDR3 on the Eaglelake derivatives with PCi-E 2.0 on the mainstream boards in Mid 2008 or if you can wait a little longer Nehalem with 4xDDR3 slots instead of 2 on the hybrid board.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: f4phantom2500
Well to be fair, Intel has used the same CPU socket for quite a bit of time now; you can still use the original 775 Prescott chips on new Intel motherboards, so there's still support for older hardware there, I dunno what you mean about not having an upgrade path?

I thought my 939 example would be clear of what I meant.

What I mean is this:

I bought a 939 motherboard when they pretty much first came out, I suppose maybe a little after. I purchased it with a A64, 3200+. In about 12-18 months AMD announced it would no longer be producting the 939 chips. This left me in somewhat a of a bind... I wasn't ready to upgrade my CPU at the time of that announcement and once these CPU's are swallowed up, the price of them INCREASES. Since upgrading the CPU requires a NEW motherboard and NEW ram, it became an expensive way just to get some decent CPU power out of an already great system. So instead of slapping in a $150 CPU, I would have had to buy a replacement motherboard, new RAM and a new CPU. This would likely be in the $500 range and it wasn't until recently that DDR2 prices came down.

Point is, AMD abandoned 939 way to early... It is my belief that they adopted DDR2 only because Intel was beating the pants off of them and they wanted every possible performance trick in the book, so they upgraded AM2 to DDR2 to give them a whopping 5%advantage clock for clock over their DDR 939 brethern... It was so pointless... I am certainly not the ONLY person who felt that 939 got the raw end of the deal. HOWEVER, some GOOD did come out of this. Luckily before the 939's dried up, the 3800 came down to a nice $93 bucks and I picked it up... So, I suppose my complaint is somewhat unwarranted - I mean afterall, everything worked out in the end.

But what about people who are not ready to upgrade to dual core yet? In about a few more months, when all the 939 are completely dried up, they will have to purchase a new motherboard + ram + cpu, or purchase a CPU with extremely infalted prices just to plop into their existing system.

So, again, my question was does anyone know what support the 965 has planned for it? No one answered the question. Will Penryn be capatable with 965? That is what I would be concerned about. Because, if so, I would pickup some DDR2 Now, then a cheap E4300 or E2100 + a good 965 mobo and plop in a Penryn when they come out... Ya know? That is what mean about an upgrade path... No one wants to always replace the motherboard + memory just to upgrade a CPU, especially when the performance increase of the faster memory is quite negligable, especially in the case of this new DDR3.

 

[Aeros]

Dont buy a 965. If you plan on a purchase buy the p35. You get support for penryn and have the choice of either DDR2 or 3. Though I recommend DDR2 at the moment.

As for support...I dont think they will add in support for 45nm on the 965.

They are more of stepping stones then dead ends, if you get a P35 Hybrid motherboard now, you can get DDR2 with a Core 2 Duo 65nm, and upgrade to Core 2 Quad 45nm, and DDR3 later.

And when you actually need to get more DDR3, you can make the final jump and reuse the DDR3 on the Eaglelake derivatives with PCi-E 2.0 on the mainstream boards in Mid 2008 or if you can wait a little longer Nehalem with 4xDDR3 slots instead of 2 on thehybrid board.

Youre right it isn't a dead end. Though it would be too exspensive for most (me) as a stepping stone.

 

[MTDEW]

Ya know , i dont really mind moving to a new chipset so often, im glad to see them constantly pushing things foward.
And i admit, i like playing with the latest hardware.

But what i DO mind is paying a premium price for the "latest enthusiast Overclocking mobo" and the first thing we always have to do is add better cooling to the northbridge.
I personally hate the whole heatpipe trend , it cools no better than the playskool HSF fans everyone used to ship their boards with.

I cant help but feel ripped off everytime i pay $200+ for a high end board only to have to mod it as soon as i unpack it!

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: myocardia
And don't expect AMD to be any different; why did you think they bought a company that makes AMD chipsets?

Wrong on that point. Socket AM2 and Socket F will be supported through 2008/early 2009. They will introduce AM2+/AM3/F+, but the CPUs will be backwards compatible with older sockets. This has been reported multiple times on a lot of sources, including AT and DT.

Intel doesn't build their CPUs with backwards compatibility, nor to they build their chipsets with forward compatibility. If you want Penryn, you need P35 (or any of its derivatives) or newer.

 

[f4phantom2500]

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

Originally posted by: f4phantom2500
Well to be fair, Intel has used the same CPU socket for quite a bit of time now; you can still use the original 775 Prescott chips on new Intel motherboards, so there's still support for older hardware there, I dunno what you mean about not having an upgrade path?

I thought my 939 example would be clear of what I meant.

What I mean is this:

I bought a 939 motherboard when they pretty much first came out, I suppose maybe a little after. I purchased it with a A64, 3200+. In about 12-18 months AMD announced it would no longer be producting the 939 chips. This left me in somewhat a of a bind... I wasn't ready to upgrade my CPU at the time of that announcement and once these CPU's are swallowed up, the price of them INCREASES. Since upgrading the CPU requires a NEW motherboard and NEW ram, it became an expensive way just to get some decent CPU power out of an already great system. So instead of slapping in a $150 CPU, I would have had to buy a replacement motherboard, new RAM and a new CPU. This would likely be in the $500 range and it wasn't until recently that DDR2 prices came down.

Point is, AMD abandoned 939 way to early... It is my belief that they adopted DDR2 only because Intel was beating the pants off of them and they wanted every possible performance trick in the book, so they upgraded AM2 to DDR2 to give them a whopping 5%advantage clock for clock over their DDR 939 brethern... It was so pointless... I am certainly not the ONLY person who felt that 939 got the raw end of the deal. HOWEVER, some GOOD did come out of this. Luckily before the 939's dried up, the 3800 came down to a nice $93 bucks and I picked it up... So, I suppose my complaint is somewhat unwarranted - I mean afterall, everything worked out in the end.

But what about people who are not ready to upgrade to dual core yet? In about a few more months, when all the 939 are completely dried up, they will have to purchase a new motherboard + ram + cpu, or purchase a CPU with extremely infalted prices just to plop into their existing system.

So, again, my question was does anyone know what support the 965 has planned for it? No one answered the question. Will Penryn be capatable with 965? That is what I would be concerned about. Because, if so, I would pickup some DDR2 Now, then a cheap E4300 or E2100 + a good 965 mobo and plop in a Penryn when they come out... Ya know? That is what mean about an upgrade path... No one wants to always replace the motherboard + memory just to upgrade a CPU, especially when the performance increase of the faster memory is quite negligable, especially in the case of this new DDR3.

I got all that about 939, but it's a bit different because it's only a chipset upgrade that uses new RAM, but you can still use Intel's old processors in the new boards, so really all you 'have' to buy is the new board (assuming you get one with ddr2, which would be stupid not to at this point since ddr2 is so cheap and ddr3 is so expensive). Even if you have one of the original LGA775 Prescott chips it'd still work in your P35 board, whereas if you'd bought 939 you would, as you pointed out, have had to buy a new processor, RAM, and motherboard. That's why I don't think it's a fair comparison, because at least Intel is letting you reuse your old processor and (if you buy one with DDR2 support) old RAM.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: f4phantom2500
That's why I don't think it's a fair comparison, because at least Intel is letting you reuse your old processor and (if you buy one with DDR2 support) old RAM.

It's a very valid comparison when you're given the fact that Intel makes you upgrade your motherboard a lot more often.

When the LGA775 Prescotts were first introduced, they came with a new socket, so you had to buy a new motherboard.

When the LGA775 Pentium Ds were introduced, you needed a new chipset to support them, so once again a new motherboard was required.

Then the LGA775 Core 2 Duos came along, and of course, they weren't compatible with older Pentium D motherboards; time for yet another new motherboard.

Intel will launch the LGA775 Penryns in late 2007/early 2008, and sorry to say, your Core 2 Duo motherboard won't be compatible; time for yet another new motherboard.

Sockets stayed the same, but you needed a new chipset for every transition, meaning a new motherboard. For AMD, as long as the CPU is socket compatible, it works with older shipsets (an example would be how dual-core X2s and Opterons were just a drop-in solution into existing Socket 939/940 motherboards, whereas Pentium Ds and Core 2 Duos were not drop in solutions into existing LGA775 motherboards).