[Sweclockers] Radeon 380X coming late spring, almost 50% improvement over 290X

[stahlhart]

It wouldn't have degenerated to that without users coming in here claiming even with +50% perf and efficiency gains, because the reference cooler is water, makes it automatically bad. That kind of stupid begets a non-serious response.

No, it doesn't. Learn how to agree to disagree respectfully, or get out of this forum.
-- stahlhart

 

[Silverforce11]

It sounds like what you want is for the 380X (or whatever their upcoming flagship is called) to have near the same TDP as the 980 and near the same performance with a good reference air cooler. Is that the efficiency you're talking about? If so, just get a 980.

There isn't anything exciting about staying at the status quo. We've had basically the same level of performance since the 780Ti came out almost 1.5yrs ago. From the looks of it, most people in this thread want Nvidia and AMD to release no-holds-barred flagships with as much performance as possible. If TDP has to hit 250W+ to get there, so be it. I'd much rather see Nvidia/AMD put the efficiency gains to good use in a true flagship card with killer performance.

Spoken like a true enthusiast.

We can speculate on a lot of things, most importantly of all, whether the potential 50% perf & efficiency gains are real, whether HBM contributes to most of that etc..

But I don't understand the need to bash it because it uses similar power to the R290X while delivering a lot more performance.

As you say, if some of you only care about power use, rather than having 50% extra perf at the same power, would it be progress if AMD's top tier GPU had the same performance but used 50% extra power? If all AMD managed as the best GPU is to match the 980 on perf & power use, they would fail hard.

Because GM200 is the giant Gorilla in the room. Its rumored >600mm2, there's no way this thing is going to sip power. But its almost certain that it will have tremendous performance to back it up.

Let's expand on that, if AMD's top tier GPU actually has great perf at 250W, they can scale it down so that the mid-range (GM204 competitor) can have decent perf at sub 200W. The options or segments are covered as it should be. There's no logic to think a top tier GPU is "mainstream" when judged on power or cooling solution metrics.

 

[tweakboy]

That is one sweet Radeon . http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2417448

 

[RampantAndroid]

What makes you think top-GPUs are mainstream? Why is it in your world, is the most expensive GPU mainstream? You keep repeating this falsehood like its a truism.

You zip right past my point. Fine - you're right - R9 is "enthusiast" and R7 is "mainstream" - I used the wrong word. My point remains valid. My meaning is "a card which they expect to ship a good number of." Steam survey shows that the R9 and R7 series (they lump them into "R9 200 series") each hold around .6 of a percentage point in share...

 

[Silverforce11]

You zip right past my point. Fine - you're right - R9 is "enthusiast" and R7 is "mainstream" - I used the wrong word. My point remains valid. My meaning is "a card which they expect to ship a good number of." Steam survey shows that the R9 and R7 series (they lump them into "R9 200 series") each hold around .6 of a percentage point in share...

So now that you understand there's different market segment. ie, mainstream, mid-range, enthusiast, ultra-enthusiast.. let me ask you, how likely is it that a 120mm rad is going to cause enthusiasts problems? This seems to be your point of disagreement with a reference water design. Compare the pros vs the cons.

For mainstream, I will agree, those OEM cases with poor airflow, poor PSU, no 120mm slots would cause problems.

Would you also agree its fair to assume that there will be many models to choose from, that the reference design is but one.

 

[MTDEW]

Serious question
Sorry if answered I haven't read entire thread.

How would you have room to x-fire two GPUs with AIO coolers and rads?

With...
CPU w/AIO cooler and rad.
add
1st GPU with AIO cooler and rad.
and
2nd GPU with AIO cooler and rad.

Where are you mounting all the rads?

Only solution I see is to void warranty and make custom loop.


Even if you go with a good cpu air cooler like the Noctua NH-D14, Im not even sure you'd have enough room for a GPU rad between the Noctua HSF and your cases rear exhaust for the GPU AIO rad. (and I have a CM HAFx which is no small case and it doesnt look like there would be room)..let alone two GPUs with AIO cooling.

 

[5150Joker]

Because many enthusiasts use multicard solutions like me and two aio isn't practical, it's stupid. If AMD fails to offer a good reference air cooler and makes people wait on third party solutions like they did with 290/x they will see a similar failure in sales and market perception especially with an efficient air cooled gm200.

 

[Silverforce11]

Serious question
Sorry if answered I haven't read entire thread.

How would you have room to x-fire two GPUs with AIO coolers and rads?

With...
CPU w/AIO cooler and rad.
add
1st GPU with AIO cooler and rad.
and
2nd GPU with AIO cooler and rad.

Where are you mounting all the rads?

Only solution I see is to void warranty and make custom loop.


Even if you go with a good cpu air cooler like the Noctua NH-D14.
Im not even sure you'd have enough room for a GPU rad between the Noctua HSF and your cases rear exhaust for the GPU AIO rad. (and I have a CM HAFx which is no small case and it doesnt look like there would be room)

My setup, its very ghetto.

CPU = thick 120mm rad
GPU 1 = thick 120mm rad
GPU 2 = thin 240mm rad

All rads are dual purpose as exhaust, so I don't have any exhaust fans other than via radiators.
Intakes from below and side panel with dust filters. SSDs below MB panel.

Because all the heat is exhausted, my case ambient is only a few degrees above room ambient.

It's actually overkill. Thin 120mm rads alone work just fine.

I recently got a Kraken G10 for another rig, it makes AIO cooling look quite nice.

 

[RampantAndroid]

So now that you understand there's different market segment. ie, mainstream, mid-range, enthusiast, ultra-enthusiast.. let me ask you, how likely is it that a 120mm rad is going to cause enthusiasts problems? This seems to be your point of disagreement with a reference water design. Compare the pros vs the cons.

For mainstream, I will agree, those OEM cases with poor airflow, poor PSU, no 120mm slots would cause problems.

Would you also agree its fair to assume that there will be many models to choose from, that the reference design is but one.

I have no doubt there will be multiple models. However, with the reference design being a closed loop water system, is it likely that companies like ASUS are going to stick a copper heatsink with a fan on? I hope so, but it isn't something we really know for sure. The only card to sport an AIB reference heatsink thus far has been the 295x2, right?

How likely is it to cause problems? How many of these enthusiasts already have an H100? How many will want crossfire (or might want crossfire at a later point in time? My 670s were bought at different times.) How many different cases are out there? My case would barely fit a single 120mm RAD in reach of the GPU (Silverstone FT02) - I'd need custom work to fit a second. MTDEW brings up exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[5150Joker]

My setup, its very ghetto.

CPU = thick 120mm rad
GPU 1 = thick 120mm rad
GPU 2 = thin 240mm rad

All rads are dual purpose as exhaust, so I don't have any exhaust fans other than via radiators.
Intakes from below and side panel with dust filters. SSDs below MB panel.

Because all the heat is exhausted, my case ambient is only a few degrees above room ambient.

It's actually overkill. Thin 120mm rads alone work just fine.

I recently got a Kraken G10 for another rig, it makes AIO cooling look quite nice.

No offense but barf. Might as well just go open bench vs that ugly mess.

 

[Silverforce11]

No offense but barf.

None taken. It's not a see through case.

It's silent & cool running. That's all I care about.

If I cared for aesthetics, I'd grab a better case, thin 120mm rads, Kraken G10s and call it day.

But seeing as the R295X2 looks just fine & dandy, it's a non-issue, unless you don't like red.

Edit: If I didn't value money AND cared for aesthetics, I would certainly go with a nice custom water loop with fancy lighting and all that jazz. But I value my money, I get near-full water loop performance for a fraction of the price. The bonus? If I upgrade, these AIOs will be re-useable, so I end up saving even more money.

 

[Silverforce11]

Because many enthusiasts use multicard solutions like me and two aio isn't practical, it's stupid. If AMD fails to offer a good reference air cooler and makes people wait on third party solutions like they did with 290/x they will see a similar failure in sales and market perception especially with an efficient air cooled gm200.

So if the R380X gets Tri-X, VaporX, PCS+ designs its ok?

 

[5150Joker]

So if the R380X gets Tri-X, VaporX, PCS+ designs its ok?

For reference, yes. Now you're getting it. And yes I like red very much - if you knew my history here from pre-2007 you'd know I was a major ATi fan back in the Rollo shill days. Never took a liking to green but love their hardware Will be ditching my AIO (doesn't cut it for a hexacore that's OC'd) for custom WC in a few months. So if NVIDIA were to push out AIO solutions for GM200, I'd be pissed because it would force me to buy aftermarket GPU blocks and another rad in my loop (thus driving up my costs) just to cool them and fit w/the aesthetics. So while this is just me, I'm sure many many other enthusiasts think the same way - a lot of us appreciate aesthetics as much as raw power and like to combine both in a nice package.

 

[boozzer]

Because many enthusiasts use multicard solutions like me and two aio isn't practical, it's stupid. If AMD fails to offer a good reference air cooler and makes people wait on third party solutions like they did with 290/x they will see a similar failure in sales and market perception especially with an efficient air cooled gm200.

can't this problem be easily solve if amd just allow 3rd party to release their cards at the same time as the reference ones?

is there a reason for the delay?

and didn't 3rd party 980/970 release at the same time as reference ones? why can't amd do that?

 

[Gloomy]

The AIO reference is literally the best thing AMD could do. The detractors in this thread are taking a very myopic view of the situation.

AMD is taking care not to give their competitor's marketing an easy strawman. Before you continue on your tirades, please take a little time off to take note of all the sites who bench non-reference designs vs AMD's reference. When AMD's reference is literally the best cooled card on the market, what was previously a sore point for AMD's perception... isn't.

If AMD follows through on their AIO cooled single GPU card then nothing else will be able to touch it in noise or temps. Ever. So what happens to the "hot and loud" meme then?

 

[5150Joker]

can't this problem be easily solve if amd just allow 3rd party to release their cards at the same time as the reference ones?

is there a reason for the delay?

and didn't 3rd party 980/970 release at the same time as reference ones? why can't amd do that?

It could but the thing is reviewers usually get reference samples at launch so the PR damage would be done. That's why I keep insisting that AMD should have a really really nice air cooler on launch that reviewers have access to so they can knock the launch out of the ballpark. Some AMD fans may think those of us that like NV hardware want to see it fail but it couldn't be further from the truth. I'm not oblivious to what's happened on the CPU side of things and certainly don't want that happening to GPUs, it's already stagnant enough.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Serious question
Sorry if answered I haven't read entire thread.

How would you have room to x-fire two GPUs with AIO coolers and rads?.

I have a Cooler Master tower that could easily do it, two rads in the top of the case and one on the back. I don't water cool my CPU because I don't feel the need but no problem if I wanted to add it along with the WC video cards.

 

[Silverforce11]

It could but the thing is reviewers usually get reference samples at launch so the PR damage would be done. That's why I keep insisting that AMD should have a really really nice air cooler on launch that reviewers have access to so they can knock the launch out of the ballpark. Some AMD fans may think those of us that like NV hardware want to see it fail but it couldn't be further from the truth. I'm not oblivious to what's happened on the CPU side of things and certainly don't want that happening to GPUs, it's already stagnant enough.

Look at the R295X2 review. Did you see many negative responses regarding its cooler?

In fact, most reviews I've read, praise and shock at how well it performs and stays quiet, cool, dumping heat out the case, was the common theme.

 

[Silverforce11]

If AMD follows through on their AIO cooled single GPU card then nothing else will be able to touch it in noise or temps. Ever. So what happens to the "hot and loud" meme then?

Well it seems some are trying very hard to change the meme to "water = desperation".. :/

AMD has a long history of producing rubbish reference designs and its been a sore contention since the 7900 series. I fully agree, a reference design for a top-tier GPU that outperforms everything else, is AMD learning its lesson, especially from the R290/X reference fiasco.

As long as there's other custom models for people to pick from, it'll be great.

 

[5150Joker]

Look at the R295X2 review. Did you see many negative responses regarding its cooler?

In fact, most reviews I've read, praise and shock at how well it performs and stays quiet, cool, dumping heat out the case, was the common theme.

I've got no doubt reviewers would praise the temperatures and many enthusiasts would purchase it. However, many others would also take up the same position some of us have argued and say, "well AIO is great and all but I don't want that in my tower" and then see what GM200 does. If NVIDIA delivers a GPU that keeps up or outperforms 380X with a really good air cooler, then you've got a PR problem.

People like me who don't really want AIO GPUs in their towers and don't want to spend the cash/effort on custom blocks can use really good air coolers to do the job. In addition, many "enthusiasts" aren't aware of or don't care about the benefits of AIO and may simply view it as a negative because the GPU is attached to hoses + radiator vs a simple air cooled solution. Multicard is a major sticking point for AIO, especially in midtowers.

 

[Gloomy]

For reference, yes. Now you're getting it. And yes I like red very much - if you knew my history here from pre-2007 you'd know I was a major ATi fan back in the Rollo shill days. Never took a liking to green but love their hardware Will be ditching my AIO (doesn't cut it for a hexacore that's OC'd) for custom WC in a few months. So if NVIDIA were to push out AIO solutions for GM200, I'd be pissed because it would force me to buy aftermarket GPU blocks and another rad in my loop (thus driving up my costs) just to cool them and fit w/the aesthetics. So while this is just me, I'm sure many many other enthusiasts think the same way - a lot of us appreciate aesthetics as much as raw power and like to combine both in a nice package.

I have the same case, and the same cooling setup on my CPU. I found that what was causing high temps is that the top cover adds some resistance and forces the hot air from the heatsink back in through the top of the case at which point it just goes in a loop through the heatsink over and over.

If you peel the top of the case off you'll quickly see what I mean. Cover up the openings with some double-sided tape and posterboard and you'll drop your load temps by like 20C or something retarded like that. I'm talking about these holes:

I'd be surprised if you're having heat troubles after that.

 

[MTDEW]

My setup, its very ghetto.

CPU = thick 120mm rad
GPU 1 = thick 120mm rad
GPU 2 = thin 240mm rad

All rads are dual purpose as exhaust, so I don't have any exhaust fans other than via radiators.
Intakes from below and side panel with dust filters. SSDs below MB panel.

Because all the heat is exhausted, my case ambient is only a few degrees above room ambient.

It's actually overkill. Thin 120mm rads alone work just fine.

I recently got a Kraken G10 for another rig, it makes AIO cooling look quite nice.

Thanks that helps give me some ideas. :thumbsup:

I recently switched my CPU cooling from water to a Noctua NH-D14 when my WC pump quit.
And I must say Ive been very happy with the Noctua NH-D14 vs my WC, the Noctua performs almost as well as WC for my modest OC.

I just don't think id now have room for a GPU rad between my Noctua HSF my rear exhaust now....so i'd have to put the CPU back on WC.

Anyway, your pic gives me some hope that I should be able to find a solution.

I typically never add GPUs to my custom WC loop since I change GPUs way too often....so i was wondering out loud about where id stick those rads.

I think i can.
1: CPU rad - top (as before)
2: GPU1 rad - rear exhaust
3: GPU2 rad - front intake
Or something like that.
Assuming GPU AIO tubes are long enough to reach front intake.

 

[5150Joker]

I have the same case, and the same cooling setup on my CPU. I found that what was causing high temps is that the top cover adds some resistance and forces the hot air from the heatsink back in through the top of the case at which point it just goes in a loop through the heatsink over and over.

If you peel the top of the case off you'll quickly see what I mean. Cover up the openings with some double-sided tape and posterboard and you'll drop your load temps by like 20C or something retarded like that. I'm talking about these holes:

I'd be surprised if you're having heat troubles after that.

We're going OT but I noticed that too during assembly Haven't covered the large hole but did do the smaller top ones and side ones. Will try the large one and see how it goes but regardless I've been itching to go custom WC for a long time and this is my excuse.

 

[Rvenger]

I was thinking, if AIOs on the GPUs get popular, the case makers will make some cool solutions I bet.

Separate AIO chambers on the side panels or something out of the ordinary.

 

[Silverforce11]

Thanks that helps give me some ideas. :thumbsup:

I recently switched my CPU cooling from water to a Noctua NH-D14 when my WC pump quit.
And I must say Ive been very happy with the Noctua NH-D14 vs my WC, the Noctua performs almost as well as WC for my modest OC.

I just don't think id now have room for a GPU rad between my Noctua HSF my rear exhaust now....so i'd have to put the CPU back on WC.

Anyway, your pic gives me some hope that I should be able to find a solution.

I typically never add GPUs to my custom WC loop since I change GPUs way too often....so i was wondering out loud about where id stick those rads.

I think i can.
1: CPU rad - top (as before)
2: GPU1 rad - rear exhaust
3: GPU2 rad - front intake
Or something like that.
Assuming GPU AIO tubes are long enough to reach front intake.

I would not use GPU rads as intakes, it would defeat the purpose of water cooling, to get good temps & noise while dumping heat out your case. As soon as you dump heat in your case, its cheaper just to go with an open air design. ;P