SweClockers: Geforce GTX 590 burns @ 772MHz & 1.025V

[3DVagabond]

It is clear that there mast be a fan working in the front of the case in the HD6990 review. If im not mistaken the case is an Antec Sonata (I had one) and it has an 120mm fan in the front. The temperatures in the front department of the case (where the cables are) in front of the HD6990 is lower at idle and on full load and it influence the HDD temp.

HD6990

GTX590

Every reading is lower for the 6990, starting with the card itself by 15c. I would think that might influence the surrounding ambient temps.

Something that I don't like about either of these cards is reports stating they need fans that remove hot air from the case in the front. Air needs to be pushed into the case from somewhere or you end up with negative pressure. FWIU positive pressure improves cooling. So, considering how most cases are designed, how are we going to achieve this desired positive pressure? The cards are exhausting air from in the case out the back. They want the front fans to be switched around to exhaust too. Somewhere we need cooler fresh air blown onto the card, and into the system in general, to replenish the hot air being removed.

 

[thilanliyan]

Post # 445, I see what he means now. You can see the blue in the bottom right hand corner of the 6990 system from the fan working and it seems to be off on the gtx590 picture.
That does look rather fishy.

As Vesku said, that can easily be the extra heat being dumped into the case by the 590 consuming more power...not necessarily a fan off. If the 590 consumed LESS power and that region was still warmer then it might be fishy.

 

[AtenRa]

It does decrease the amps though (P=IV).

There is a reason the VRM's are spec'ed by the amperage they can reliably operate at, right?

Too many amps is bad, less amps is better, lower and lower amps means longer and longer operating lifetime for the component.

This is probably universally true of all electrical components owing to the fact that fundamentally the degradation mechanisms involve the same basic factors - electric field gradient, thermal energy, electrons, and atoms.

This is correct but,

There were two rumors involving the GTX590, the first one was for the VRMs and that they couldn’t sustain the power the GPUs requested and the second was that new drivers lower the GPU frequency to 550MHz (57MHz decrease from the default 607MHz) in order to decrease the workload of the “anemic” VRMs.

The only photo we have that show a blown up GTX590 VRM is from W1zzard who increased the Voltage to 1.2V. All the other photos of cards that blow up don’t show a blow up VRM apparatus like the PWM or the MOSFET etc.

MOSFET failed (W1zzard)
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GeForce_GTX_590/26.html

Other GTX590 blow up, back side

As for the second rumor I have said that when we decrease the frequency (MHz) without decreasing the Voltage (Volt) the decrease in current (Amps) is minute and that’s because P (Wattage) = I (Amps) * V (Voltage). Post #403 clearly shows that Current is more dependable to the Voltage than Frequency.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=31480231&postcount=403

So 50MHz decrease will only lower the current the VRMs produce by 0.2-.04A and unless the VRMs are working in their maximum capacity this change will not effect the VRMs working conditions.

At Default settings (607MHz with 0.938V) the VRMs of the GTX590 don’t work in their maximum capacity so decreasing only the frequency is not a measure to prevent the VRMs from blowing.

People will have to understand that because GTX590 GPUs work at lower frequencies (Memory too) and voltage than GTX580 the power requirement is less, so the VRM implementation doesn’t need to be the same as in GTX580 (Per GPU). The same goes for GTX570 which has less VRM stages than GTX580 in the same PCB design.

GTX580
6 phase VRM (No solid electrolyte capacitors)

6 x 330uf capacitors, back side

----------------------------------------------------------------

GTX570
4 Phase VRM (No solid electrolyte capacitors)

4 x 330uf capacitors, back side

----------------------------------------------------------------

GTX590

5 Phase VRM with 4 solid electrolyte capacitors Per GPU (Left image)
8 x 330uf capacitors + one not used, back side Per GPU(Right image)

One more thing, the VRM design in the GTX590 is much better than in GTX580 as it has more capacitors than in the reference GTX580 (8 vs 6) + 5 solid electrolyte capacitors per GPU.
It can’t provide more power than the GTX580 design but it provides “smoother” voltage to the GPUs than the former.

Links
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GeForce_GTX_590/26.html
http://lab501.ro/placi-video/nvidia-geforce-gtx-580-studiu-de-overclocking/7
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_580/2.html
http://translate.google.gr/translat...o/placi-video/nvidia-geforce-gtx-570-review/3
http://lab501.ro/placi-video/nvidia-geforce-gtx-590-studiu-de-overclocking/12

Edit: links

 

[AtenRa]

Every reading is lower for the 6990, starting with the card itself by 15c. I would think that might influence the surrounding ambient temps.

Something that I don't like about either of these cards is reports stating they need fans that remove hot air from the case in the front. Air needs to be pushed into the case from somewhere or you end up with negative pressure. FWIU positive pressure improves cooling. So, considering how most cases are designed, how are we going to achieve this desired positive pressure? The cards are exhausting air from in the case out the back. They want the front fans to be switched around to exhaust too. Somewhere we need cooler fresh air blown onto the card, and into the system in general, to replenish the hot air being removed.

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/747-22/maj-dossier-cartes-graphiques-degagement-thermique.html

HD6990 @ 375W

HD6990 @ 450W

Even at 450W the front of the case has almost the same temperature as before, clearly there mast be a fan active.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Even at 450W the front of the case has almost the same temperature as before, clearly there mast be a fan active.

There's distinctly more orange and yellow at 450W in the front of the case.

Something that I don't like about either of these cards is reports stating they need fans that remove hot air from the case in the front. Air needs to be pushed into the case from somewhere or you end up with negative pressure. FWIU positive pressure improves cooling. So, considering how most cases are designed, how are we going to achieve this desired positive pressure? The cards are exhausting air from in the case out the back. They want the front fans to be switched around to exhaust too. Somewhere we need cooler fresh air blown onto the card, and into the system in general, to replenish the hot air being removed.

Air pressure is definitely important.

An anecdotal experience: I have a 240mm side case fan that has a switch controlling which way it blows. I usually have it as an intake. I decided to see what would happen if it was an outtake - if it would lower temps on my video card which has a heatsink dumping all air inside the case.

So I flipped it, but hardly any air at all was being blown out and it seemed like the fan was spinning slower. Now it doesn't spin very fast to begin with, since it's huge. However, the rear case fan, which is 120mm and very high flow, is practically right next to side fan in 3D space. It seems as if the rear case fan was just overpowering and stealing all the air. Also my CPU heatsink blows air towards the rear as well.

Basically the rear case fan was creating so much suction that it had really big impact on the performance of the side case fan. Thus negative pressure. And the two fans were competing instead of working together. And in my situation, air could only get into the case via the front panel, which has no active fan. It's simply mesh - a very dense mesh which would be restrictive of airflow. But even if the front of the case was open, I still think the two fans would have competed with each other simply because of their proximity to each other, as air would take some time to reach the back of the case from the front.

 

[AtenRa]

There's distinctly more orange and yellow at 450W in the front of the case.

check the difference with HD6990 @ 450W and GTX590

 

[kevinsbane]

It should be noted that the HD 6990 does exhaust a lot more hot air than the GTX 590, given the rear plate profiles, like Outrage pointed out. The GTX 590 can only exhaust about half the amount of air out the rear plate as the HD 6990 can, since it only has half the open area. The GTX may or may not be using more power at any given point, but it is always exhausting less air outside the case and doing more recirculation than the HD 6990

 

[Arkadrel]

check the difference with HD6990 @ 450W and GTX590

Why compair a overclock, to a stock 590 when it comes to temps?

At stock the 6990 is a tiny bit fast than the 590, Overclock it, and the picture changes.

Yes a 450watt overclocked 6990, is probably as warm as the 590.... its also a lot faster at that point though.

 

[thilanliyan]

check the difference with HD6990 @ 450W and GTX590

As explained by others, if the GTX590 doesn't exhaust as much hot air out of the case (which seems to be the case), it would definitely be cooler in that area with the 6990, even at 450w. I think people are grasping here claiming a fan is off, what does that site have to gain? One card uses more power and doesn't exhaust air out of the case like the other, of course the case is then going to be hotter.

 

[SirPauly]

Business is about earning money, a dicipline NV have been much better at than AMD.

On the consumer side the profit for NV comes from the volume part, ie the lower segments <96 cores.

In that segment perciewed performance more than brute numbers rule the decisions.

NV contrary to AMD knows they dont sell gfx with numbers, they know they sell entertainment and feelings.

Here brand value comes in. NV brand value is excellent, and their most valuable asset. Nothing is more valuable than a brand. It affect your cognitive perception of the reality - it shapes reality. Thats why a real Coca Cola tastes far better than all the no name competitors.

One of the points that strengtens a brand is to have the fastest card in the world. Just look at have NV markets the card.

Thats the purpose. So the seller at retail can say "its from NV the maker of the fastest gfx in the world."

Did NV succes in doing so. Yes. Here is why.

When you produce 1000 pcx, its not from a professional point a view manufactoring. Its a sample. The number of cards, i can tell you is about the sample size you use for development of high tech parts for tool development.

In the strictest sense. Its therefore not a card. With 1000pcx, you can not say it exsist. But its a marketing tool. For earning money - the purpose of the company and what NV is good at.

Now when does this marketing tools succeed?

Here comes the intereshting:
NV succeed the moment the reviewers compared it to the 6990

Its simply the very professional marketing and PR at NV doing their job well as they have done before. Add relation building over time and professional reviewers guide and you have the recipy.

Now there is perhaps some issues with the card. But it doesnt matter in this context. Remember NV can claim they have the fastest card. And they can shout far louder and better than AMD. Thats also the benefit of the brand.

I can tell from a high tech, high brand company, that we are someone that know we are hiding behind the brand. And i bet someone at NV knows the same.

But when the market turns red, its about to be creative, because it can not last. You can not continue forever to sell warm air. That why we see NV and Intel trying to expand into other markets. AMD just dont have the financial and ressources to do it, and they have traditionally always lagged a little bit on the business side of thinking.

imho,

It's nVidia's pro-active nature and engineering that has been the recipe for success for their brand families. If you don't engineer and execute -- brand is nothing.

 

[AtenRa]

As explained by others, if the GTX590 doesn't exhaust as much hot air out of the case (which seems to be the case), it would definitely be cooler in that area with the 6990, even at 450w. I think people are grasping here claiming a fan is off, what does that site have to gain? One card uses more power and doesn't exhaust air out of the case like the other, of course the case is then going to be hotter.

Due to the central fan design the cold air comes through the fan inside the card and it is distributed left and right through the heatsinks. The air can't re-circulate back from the left heatsink and pass the fan and then be exhausted in the right side of the card and inside the PC case. So the air that goes through the left heatsink is being exhausted through the back panel and the holes in the left top side of the shroud.
Because the top holes in the shroud are exhausting air inside the case we have an elevation in temperature near that area.

HD6990 @ 375W

HD6990 @ 450W

GTX590 Default

Now we know that default HD6990 consume less power than GTX590 and it should produce less heat as well and that it's clear in the first picture.

What is interesting in the pictures is, that HD6990 @ 450W produces more heat and that influence the surrounding area on top of the card elevating the temperature of the Motherboards NorthBridge by 5.1 degrees to 84,1C and the CPU by 4,9 degrees to 80,7C but the temperature of the back of the card (right side) doesn't rise that much.

At 450W the HD6990 should exhaust higher temperature air inside the case than GTX590 but as we can see from the pictures thats not the case. There mast be a fan working with the HD6990 in order to have those lower temperatures in that side of the PC case and it has nothing to do with the GTX590 exhaust.

 

[bryanW1995]

I must say I did not know this word existed. I have never seen it before - probably because of the popularity of detrimental. But I like it.

Yes, deleterious is quite fashionable among the cognoscenti.

 

[MrK6]

Now we know that default HD6990 consume less power than GTX590 and it should produce less heat as well and that it's clear in the first picture.

What is interesting in the pictures is, that HD6990 @ 450W produces more heat and that influence the surrounding area on top of the card elevating the temperature of the Motherboards NorthBridge by 5.1 degrees to 84,1C and the CPU by 4,9 degrees to 80,7C but the temperature of the back of the card (right side) doesn't rise that much.

At 450W the HD6990 should exhaust higher temperature air inside the case than GTX590 but as we can see from the pictures thats not the case. There mast be a fan working with the HD6990 in order to have those lower temperatures in that side of the PC case and it has nothing to do with the GTX590 exhaust.

Huh? The 6990 increases temperatures in the case all around, as is expected from a card producing 75W+ more heat. The GTX 590 simply produces more heat and lacks the airflow the 6990 generates, leading to the higher temperatures seen.

 

[AtenRa]

Huh? The 6990 increases temperatures in the case all around, as is expected from a card producing 75W+ more heat.

Exactly, but then again the front of the PC case has less temperature than GTX590

The GTX 590 simply produces more heat and lacks the airflow the 6990 generates, leading to the higher temperatures seen.

GTX590 doesn't produces more heat than HD6990 @ 450W, you said it your self (above).

Watt = 1 Joule/sec

Because HD6990 @450W produces more heat it exhaust higher temperature air in the front of the PC case and it had to raise the temperature in that area more than the GTX590.

GTX590 GPU cores have higher temperature because the heatsink is smaller and has a smaller thermal dissipation capability or the airflow is less. But the card produces less heat (Less wattage) than HD6990 @ 450W.

 

[railven]

Huh? The 6990 increases temperatures in the case all around, as is expected from a card producing 75W+ more heat. The GTX 590 simply produces more heat and lacks the airflow the 6990 generates, leading to the higher temperatures seen.

I just noticed that the mounting bracket and whole PCI brackets jumped in temperature a lot.

The 6990 from 375W to 450W is dumping a lot of hot air out of the case. The heat is being absorbed by the case as evident by the metal starting to heat more.

 

[railven]

Exactly, but then again the front of the PC case has less temperature than GTX590



GTX590 doesn't produces more heat than HD6990 @ 450W, you said it your self (above).

Watt = 1 Joule/sec

Because HD6990 @450W produces more heat it exhaust higher temperature air in the front of the PC case and it had to raise the temperature in that area more than the GTX590.

GTX590 GPU cores have higher temperature because the heatsink is smaller and has a smaller thermal dissipation capability or the airflow is less. But the card produces less heat (Less wattage) than HD6990 @ 450W.

If you see my post, I noticed that the rear shows high increase in heat for the 6990.

Is it plausible that the 6990 is just dumping more heat outside of the case than the GTX 590? The front increases in temperature with the wattage increase but no where near as much as the rear did for the 6990. That tells me the 6990 is dumping a lot of hot air outside of the case.

EDIT: looking closer, I'd argue the 6990's images show the rear being hotter both stock and OC'ed than the GTX 590 images.

 

[AtenRa]

HD6990 has the same cooling design with GTX590, a single fan in the middle of two heatsinks. Both ends of the card exhaust the same amount of air volume and the same amount of heat (same for GTX590).

I dont see why HD6990 could exhaust more heat out of the case.

If one card consumes more watts it creates more heat and HD6990 @ 450W produces more heat and that's a fact. So it had to exhaust higher temperature air inside the front of the PC case than GTX590, but the pictures show different results and that's because only an outside factor could influence the heat in that PC case area.

Edit: back panel picture inserted

 

[GaiaHunter]

HD6990 has the same cooling design with GTX590, a single fan in the middle of two heatsinks. Both ends of the card exhaust the same amount of air volume and the same amount of heat (same for GTX590).

I dont see why HD6990 could exhaust more heat out of the case.

If one card consumes more watts it creates more heat and HD6990 @ 450W produces more heat and that's a fact. So it had to exhaust higher temperature air inside the front of the PC case than GTX590, but the pictures show different results and that's because only an outside factor could influence the heat in that PC case area.

Edit: back panel picture inserted

61.8 is bigger than 59.7 or am I missing something?

The rest is due to different card sizes and surface areas.

 

[AtenRa]

61.8 is bigger than 59.7 or am I missing something?

The rest is due to different card sizes and surface areas.

Those temps are for the HDDs and yes they show that HD6990 @ 450W exhaust more heat in that area than GTX590.
The problem is in the lower area of the front of the PC case, bellow the rear exhaust of the HD6990. In that area the temperature is lower than GTX590 even when HD6990 exhaust more heat.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Those temps are for the HDDs and yes they show that HD6990 @ 450W exhaust more heat in that area than GTX590.
The problem is in the lower area of the front of the PC case, bellow the rear exhaust of the HD6990. In that area the temperature is lower than GTX590 even when HD6990 exhaust more heat.

But the 6990 is quite longer.

The back of the card (pcb) will be the hotter area and will allow more heat to rise to the top.

 

[thilanliyan]

I dont see why HD6990 could exhaust more heat out of the case.

If one card consumes more watts it creates more heat and HD6990 @ 450W produces more heat and that's a fact. So it had to exhaust higher temperature air inside the front of the PC case than GTX590, but the pictures show different results and that's because only an outside factor could influence the heat in that PC case area.

Edit: back panel picture inserted

You can see from the pics there that the exhaust on the 6990 is more open than the 590, and more importantly, if the fan is spinning faster (we know the 6990 is louder), then why wouldn't it be cooler inside the case with the 6990? I really think there is a simple explanation for this and it is nothing to do with a conspiracy. Also remember that air will follow the easiest path out. If the case has positive pressure, and the 6990 fan is spinning fast, it could in fact be pulling more air out of the right side heatsink as well (relative to if the fan was not spinning fast).

From the GTX590 photo you can see that temps inside the case are already hot, meaning the hot air is not being exhausted outside the case that well.

 

[railven]

HD6990 has the same cooling design with GTX590, a single fan in the middle of two heatsinks. Both ends of the card exhaust the same amount of air volume and the same amount of heat (same for GTX590).

<snip>

I dont see why HD6990 could exhaust more heat out of the case.

If one card consumes more watts it creates more heat and HD6990 @ 450W produces more heat and that's a fact. So it had to exhaust higher temperature air inside the front of the PC case than GTX590, but the pictures show different results and that's because only an outside factor could influence the heat in that PC case area.

Edit: back panel picture inserted

But they don't use the same fan design. Does anyone know the CFM for the fans on each card?

The GTX 590 fan/design is doing something poor, using the simple knowledge that more watts == more heat, but looking at the Anandtech reviews, the temps are within a few degrees in temperatures from the 6990 OC and the GTX 590 stock:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4239/nvidias-geforce-gtx-590-duking-it-out-for-the-single-card-king/16

The obvious trade off is sound:

My theory would be the lax fan design on the GTX 590 is letting hot air leak out into the case versus being exhaused faster through the rear. This causes more hot air to build up inside the case, and over time the temperatures increase through out as shown.

 

[TerabyteX]

HD6990 has the same cooling design with GTX590, a single fan in the middle of two heatsinks. Both ends of the card exhaust the same amount of air volume and the same amount of heat (same for GTX590).

The heatsinks used on the GTX 590 are smaller, look at it.

I dont see why HD6990 could exhaust more heat out of the case.

If one card consumes more watts it creates more heat and HD6990 @ 450W produces more heat and that's a fact. So it had to exhaust higher temperature air inside the front of the PC case than GTX590, but the pictures show different results and that's because only an outside factor could influence the heat in that PC case area.

Edit: back panel picture inserted

I can see why the HD 6990 can exhaust more heat out of the case. Look at the GTX 590 rear exhaust.

The GTX 590 rear exhaust is blocked by a DVI Port, making it considerably smaller to effectively exhaust hot air compared to the HD 6990 exhaust.

 

[railven]

The heatsinks used on the GTX 590 are smaller, look at it.





I can see why the HD 6990 can exhaust more heat out of the case. Look at the GTX 590 rear exhaust.



The GTX 590 rear exhaust is blocked by a DVI Port, making it considerably smaller to effectively exhaust hot air compared to the HD 6990 exhaust.

Two great points that disqualify they use the "same cooling design" angle. Small differences like that can make a big difference.

 

[AtenRa]

The heatsinks used on the GTX 590 are smaller, look at it.




I can see why the HD 6990 can exhaust more heat out of the case. Look at the GTX 590 rear exhaust.



The GTX 590 rear exhaust is blocked by a DVI Port, making it considerably smaller to effectively exhaust hot air compared to the HD 6990 exhaust.

Nope, the smaller opening will allow the same air volume to pass at the same time as a bigger opening but at a higher speed. That&#8217;s a fact (Physics)

The opening of the rear panel in HD6990 is smaller than the front end. By your theory HD6990 will exhaust more air volume inside the case than outside through the smaller backpanel opening. Again that&#8217;s not the case, both ends will exhaust the same amount of air volume, the difference is that in the smaller opening the air speed will be higher than the larger opening and that's a fact (Physics).

Bernoulli's Theorem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli&#37;27s_principle