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Swat team in Fairfax County, VA murder innocent man.

yeah terrible situation. but the man should have come out..

what do you expect them to do? go away? when there is a report of a gun and domestic abuse?


though the police shouldn't have just shot him. he wasn't pointing a gun at them or anything.
 
waggy said:
yeah terrible situation. but the man should have come out..

what do you expect them to do? go away? when there is a report of a gun and domestic abuse?


though the police shouldn't have just shot him. he wasn't pointing a gun at them or anything.
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so he should just let them illegally search his home? you're allowed to own a gun and he was there alone, who could he have abused? I have a feeling the domestic abuse claim is just a way for police to circumvent your 4th amendment right.
 
rdubbz said:
so he should just let them illegally search his home? you're allowed to own a gun and he was there alone, who could he have abused? I have a feeling the domestic abuse claim is just a way for police to circumvent your 4th amendment right.
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Its called probable cause in cases like this. The police do not know anyone is not there unless they look.

Also this is from Aug.
 
rdubbz said:
Cliffs:
Police get a report of man with a weapon (not illegal to own a gun and his wife is dea)
Show up at house with armored vehicles claiming domestic abuse call. (dude is alone in the house)
Man refuses to come out or let police in.
Police murder man...
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Far from defusing violent situations, most SWAT raids actually create them.


Eastern Kentucky University criminologist Peter Kraska, a widely cited expert on the “militarization” of domestic police departments, estimates that the number of SWAT team deployments has jumped from 3,000 a year in the early 1980s to more than 40,000 a year by the early 2000s. -- Cato.org
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Man at home alone. Not bothering anyone or breaking any laws. SWAT shows up and kills him. I think I've heard this philosophy before....

"'It became necessary to destroy the town to save it,' a United States major said today.

Uno
 
rdubbz said:
so he should just let them illegally search his home? you're allowed to own a gun and he was there alone, who could he have abused? I have a feeling the domestic abuse claim is just a way for police to circumvent your 4th amendment right.
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pretty much his only choice. they are coming in and they have guns.

die or sue and make a fuss latter?


again with those limited facts he SHOULD have come out. sorry he died but i can't place 100% blame on the cops.
 
Jimzz said:
Its called probable cause in cases like this. The police do not know anyone is not there unless they look.

Also this is from Aug.
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why even have a right to privacy when the police can say they've received an anonymous call for domestic violence and they search at will or kill. there needs to be better checks and balances.
 
Did they show up with 30 tons of armored freedumb before shooting a man for being in his own home with a gun? This is what happens when you let police play soldier.
 
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Jimzz said:
Its called probable cause in cases like this. The police do not know anyone is not there unless they look..
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Probable cause or prank?

Meet 'swatting,' the dangerous prank that could get someone killed
It’s relatively easy to swat someone, since law enforcement tends to err on the side of taking emergency calls seriously. The threshold for calling in a special forces team varies by district, but generally it seems to be enough to say you have a gun and a potential victim. All swatters really need is the victim’s address, a way to mask their phone number, and a crazy story to tell the 911 operator.
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Uno
 
I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but you guys should wait for more facts to come out before you start screaming murder. Nothing in that article said that the shooting wasn't justified. He could have pointed the firearm at an officer through a window and been shot. And even then he chose to barricade himself, further prolonging the even much longer.

And yes, law enforcement do need armored vehicles like that in events like this. I have been in barricaded subject calls and it's very difficult to find adequate cover in an urban environment, especially if the suspect is armed with a long gun.
 
Jimzz said:
It can be both; they are not mutually exclusive. The police still have probable cause in cases like this. After they see its false then they can back track the call and see what happened.
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so a cop doesn't feel like jumping through hoops to get a search warrant can make or have someone phone in an anonymous call from a pay phone and have free rein to the house? and I've known a cop wouldn't think twice about doing this.
 
wholesalestunna said:
I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but you guys should wait for more facts to come out before you start screaming murder. Nothing in that article said that the shooting wasn't justified. He could have pointed the firearm at an officer through a window and been shot. And even then he chose to barricade himself, further prolonging the even much longer.

And yes, law enforcement do need armored vehicles like that in events like this. I have been in barricaded subject calls and it's very difficult to find adequate cover in an urban environment, especially if the suspect is armed with a long gun.
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the police don't seem to be releasing any of this info (this happened a couple months ago), how do we demand to know what happened? or do we just take their word for it?
 
Way old, and another sad attempt of someone trying to push their agenda. Good try, you just look ignorant instead.
 
Ackmed said:
Way old, and another sad attempt of someone trying to push their agenda. Good try, you just look ignorant instead.
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august 30th is not way old and demanding answers isn't a sign of ignorance, but putting your head up your ass is.
 
rdubbz said:
so a cop doesn't feel like jumping through hoops to get a search warrant can make or have someone phone in an anonymous call from a pay phone and have free rein to the house? and I've known a cop wouldn't think twice about doing this.
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By the way, police don't always have to have a warrant to enter a house. Exigency created by a domestic situation with a subject armed with a gun could allow them entry depending on the circumstances. No warrant needed.
 
And the swatting prank is why all the militarization of police needs to stop. All it takes is an idiot asshole to use cash to buy a pre-paid visa or mastercard. Use that card to purchase a disposable no contract phone. Go someone with the phone they normally would not go. Make a 911 call claiming whatever it takes to send the police to a location they want to hassle. Destroy the phone and thus evidence of the call. Watch as the cops screw up a scenario they should have. Not saying the cops will screw it up, but just putting that situation together means there is always a chance for a fuck up.
 
wholesalestunna said:
By the way, police don't always have to have a warrant to enter a house. Exigency created by a domestic situation with a subject armed with a gun could allow them entry depending on the circumstances. No warrant needed.
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They would have to see evidence of a crime in progress to enter a home without a warrant. The owner having a gun is NOT a crime in progress. Which is why they had not entered the home yet. They either need someone calling out for help from the inside, or be able to view from the outside someone being hurt. A person being armed legally in their own home does NOT constitute a crime in progress not the means for cops to legally enter a home without a warrant. If you think so then you've been watching way too many bad cop tv shows that are pushing the wrong information out there to the public.
 
HumblePie said:
They would have to see evidence of a crime in progress to enter a home without a warrant. The owner having a gun is NOT a crime in progress. Which is why they had not entered the home yet. They either need someone calling out for help from the inside, or be able to view from the outside someone being hurt. A person being armed legally in their own home does NOT constitute a crime in progress not the means for cops to legally enter a home without a warrant. If you think so then you've been watching way too many bad cop tv shows that are pushing the wrong information out there to the public.
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I never said that just that in itself would create exigency. If I answered a call though that was a domestic dispute where someone calls and says someone is threatening them with a gun, you think I would leave if I knocked on the door and didn't get an answer? We have to be more thorough than that.

The article does not have a lot of information and is obviously leaving a lot out. I can assure you they do not call out SWAT and an armored vehicle for a man legallly armed in his own home. If he didn't want the officers in his house, all he had to do was come outside and talk to them (unarmed of course) if he had good intentions.
 
remember, if they carry a badge, you MUST obey. They own you. It's not a question of derived authority. you do NOT have a choice because they have a justified monopoly of force. OBEY!
 
wholesalestunna said:
I never said that just that in itself would create exigency. If I answered a call though that was a domestic dispute where someone calls and says someone is threatening them with a gun, you think I would leave if I knocked on the door and didn't get an answer? We have to be more thorough than that.

The article does not have a lot of information and is obviously leaving a lot out. I can assure you they do not call out SWAT and an armored vehicle for a man legallly armed in his own home. If he didn't want the officers in his house, all he had to do was come outside and talk to them (unarmed of course) if he had good intentions.
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I would not expect the cops to leave until they know the situation for sure. Which would either require waiting for a warrant or a one of those exigency that would allow them to come in to "save" someone from a dangerous situation.

However, the story and the video shows basically a cop shooting through a window at someone inside. There is nothing in the world I can think of that would allow a cop to do that.
 
People...


His wife is DEA. So when the gang members showed up, they were there to exact revenge for one of their own gang members, not settle some domestic disturbance.

If your spouse is inside the thin-blue-line gang you are majorly fscked if you need the police to help you.
 
HumblePie said:
I would not expect the cops to leave until they know the situation for sure. Which would either require waiting for a warrant or a one of those exigency that would allow them to come in to "save" someone from a dangerous situation.

However, the story and the video shows basically a cop shooting through a window at someone inside. There is nothing in the world I can think of that would allow a cop to do that.
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Crap like that happens all the time, it's not even surprising.


And LOL at 'making the cops wait'. If their time was more important than a citizen's life then there would be no way to afford these fancy swat vehicles and all the toys that come along with it.

It boggles my mind that a 'no knock warrant' involving 20+ gangsters where they will shoot you if you're half asleep makes more sense in our society compared to covertly waiting outside for a few days/weeks/month even for the person to leave.
 
Uh, alright no one really knows the details of the situation, but there's a little common sense to be observed here.

If anyone be they cop, burglar or Batman is trying to get into your house, and you're trying to keep them out of your house, and they have guns, STAY AWAY FROM THE FREAKING WINDOWS.

If they wrongfully enter anyway, sue hard enough to make their lives miserable and their careers dead.
 
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