Swapping MB and Processor - Do I need to reformat?

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: Insane3D
Well, I'm not going to argue about the people you know, but I can speak for myself, and it doesn't take anywhere near that long. It sounds like you are someone who doesn't often do fresh installs (since you mention having a 2 year old Win2K install), so maybe for you, it is that way. I can speak for myself, and the PC's I build for clients, and it does NOT take the better part of week to set up a PC.

Doing the basic setup and driver install is quick (well, relatively quick; unless you have them all handy, you need to download and install updated drivers, Windows patches, and things like DirectX). It's tweaking every application you have so it's set up the way you want that's a huge PITA.

As I said previously, you can customize the install CD's so things are set up the way you like it, if you want to spend the time doing it. Personally, I make myself cutomized OS install CD's for each of my systems...

Way too much hassle for your average user with one system who mainly reinstalls Windows when they change hardware (making the old install CD useless anyway). Of course, you could always install your system, tweak it, Ghost that drive, and then use that to reinstall -- but again, this still doesn't help you if you switch hardware or change your applications and/or settings.

...and have a networked storage drive that I can quickly dump any files that need to be backed up to, so at worst it takes me about a afternoon or so to get things back the way I want.

Again, this requires a second system and home network. Backing up data is also relatively quick and easy; however, most applications offer no good way to migrate your settings and customizations to another system (or, if such a way is offered, it still involves several manual steps on each end).

If you have to do installs/reinstalls ALL THE TIME (which it sounds like you do) -- yes, there are a lot of things you can do to make the process go faster and more smoothly. However, since reinstalls can largely be avoided in WinXP-based systems, it's just not effective for a single-system user who reinstalls fairly rarely to do them.

Originally posted by: stevty2889
The repair installation may work, but you would really be better off reformating, XP does not like it when you change motherboards, unless they have the same chipset.

Several people in this thread have expressed this opinion or very similar ones (calling it, for example, "half-assed"). In my experience (and knowledge of how WinNT/XP works), this is just not true. All reinstalling does for you in 'hardware change' cases is to reinitialize your system's hardware information, and to replace its drivers with the correct ones for the new hardware. This is exactly what the Repair Installation does, but without wiping out the rest of the registry and the other data on the partition.

I can't vouch for anyone else -- but I recently swapped motherboards (from a VIA KT133 to a new NForce2Ultra400) and video cards with a Repair Installation without a hitch (other than having to finagle the video and chipset drivers a bit to get them to play nice, but that often happens when changing videocards and updating chipset drivers anyway).

 

[Insane3D]

Again, that's all well and good, but it does not take a week to do the fresh install....plain and simple. We aren't talking about setting everything up the way you like it, we are talking about the fresh install itself. It takes a bit more time than a repair, but it's a better choice when changing to a completely different platform.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: Insane3D
Again, that's all well and good, but it does not take a week to do the fresh install....plain and simple. We aren't talking about setting everything up the way you like it, we are talking about the fresh install itself.

It sounds like you agree with Cerb (and me) on this point, then.

It takes a bit more time than a repair, but it's a better choice when changing to a completely different platform.

WHY? How is it "better"? What is it doing for you other than letting Windows redetect your new hardware and install appropraite drivers?

 

[BFG10K]

It's best to do a clean install when swapping motherboards.

What this does is basically wipes out all the hardware info in the registry, and removes your existing device drivers, and then redetects and reinstalls all your hardware from scratch.

I don't believe it does that at all. All it'll do is restore any files/settings that it has deemed are broken/corrupted.

Fresh install: ~3-7 days.

There is something very, very wrong with your format procedure if it takes you that long to do it.

 

[Insane3D]

It sounds like you agree with Cerb (and me) on this point, then.

No, I don't actually. I don't think it generally takes the better part of a WEEK to set things up the way you like.

WHY? How is it "better"? What is it doing for you other than letting Windows redetect your new hardware and install appropraite drivers?

Do you really need this question answered? Instead of trying to modify a existing windows install that has who knows what settings and such changed in the registry, you are starting from a freshly formatted drive, with a freshly installed, non-modified registry, and avoiding any conflict that may arise from such a install.

Doing the basic setup and driver install is quick (well, relatively quick; unless you have them all handy, you need to download and install updated drivers, Windows patches, and things like DirectX). It's tweaking every application you have so it's set up the way you want that's a huge PITA.

Maybe it's a PITA for YOU, but I don't think it's that big of a deal. As for updated drivers and patches, as I said, it can be added to the install CD, and it is something the casual user can do. There are several clear, and concise guides on how to do this out there, and most of the "work" involves simply cutting and pasting the info in the guides. Do you consider making a slipstreamed XP CD a hassle that the "average user" can't handle?

Again, this requires a second system and home network. Backing up data is also relatively quick and easy; however, most applications offer no good way to migrate your settings and customizations to another system (or, if such a way is offered, it still involves several manual steps on each end).

If you have to do installs/reinstalls ALL THE TIME (which it sounds like you do) -- yes, there are a lot of things you can do to make the process go faster and more smoothly. However, since reinstalls can largely be avoided in WinXP-based systems, it's just not effective for a single-system user who reinstalls fairly rarely to do them.

There you go again about the "average user", are you the "official spokesperson for the average user"? While the "average user" may not have access to a networked drive or a second PC, they should have access to a CDRW, especially with the 52X models under $30 now, and they can back up their stuff on a CD-R or CD-RW.

Several people in this thread have expressed this opinion or very similar ones (calling it, for example, "half-assed"). In my experience (and knowledge of how WinNT/XP works), this is just not true. All reinstalling does for you in 'hardware change' cases is to reinitialize your system's hardware information, and to replace its drivers with the correct ones for the new hardware. This is exactly what the Repair Installation does, but without wiping out the rest of the registry and the other data on the partition.

I can't vouch for anyone else -- but I recently swapped motherboards (from a VIA KT133 to a new NForce2Ultra400) and video cards with a Repair Installation without a hitch (other than having to finagle the video and chipset drivers a bit to get them to play nice, but that often happens when changing videocards and updating chipset drivers anyway).

Yes, I consider it "half-assed" because I think it makes more sense to do things the correct way the first time, then try a workaround/shortcut and hope it works ok. As you said in your example, you needed to "finagle the video and chipset drivers" to get them to "play nice"....this simply doesn't happen with a fresh install. Do you know how much can be changed in the registry from past programs that may or may not cause problems down the road?

 

[mechBgon]

I tried a Windows2000Pro Repair-mode installation of necessity a while back (K7S5A died, replaced it with my A7N8X Deluxe). While the Repair mode can work out well at times, this time it didn't. Windows ended up with some strange behaviors and I said heck with that. I agree with BFG10K, you're stacking the odds in your favor if you reinstall.

As for how long it takes? Earlier this week I brought home my older 15k SCSI drive, heaved it into my home system and did these steps, which I think took me about 4 hours?

• Boot from CD, F6 for driver floppy, full format of Mr. Cheetah, etc etc.
• Install DirectX 9.0B (have it on CD), reboot
• Install Service Pack 4 (have it on CD), reboot
• Install IE6SP1 (have it on CD), reboot
• Run FASTPATCH.BAT, a batchfile I have that installs about 35 IE/Windows patches in one shot (have it/them on CD), reboot
• Install Windows Media Player 9 (have it on CD), reboot
• Install ZoneAlarm and AVG Free Edition (have them on CD) as well as Acrobat Reader 6.0 and WinZip 9.0 (licensed)
• Install nVidia UDP 4.24 driver pack (have it on CD), reboot
• Install ATI video drivers (have it on CD), reboot, AHHHH finally rid of that blasted 640 x 480 x 16
• Install modem drivers (booyah, look out world, I have 49.2k)
• Hit Windows Update for a couple of final patches
• Install Microsoft Baseline Security Analyzer 1.2 (have it on CD, you sense a theme here)
• Make some GUI customizations and adjust a few Local Security Policy items, etc

Granted, a 15000rpm SCSI drive is a little bit of help here, but that was maybe 3-4 hours of work? And granted also, I had the foresight to save the files that I need to do this. I don't know what applications I would need to do much tweaking and configuration in, unless we're talking keyboard assignments in first-person shooters or something

If I had WinXP Professional, I could have stopped at this point and done an ASR backup, then burned that .bkf file to DVD, or saved it on a spare hard drive, and I would have a sort of Ghost image except it's hardware-neutral... an ASR backup from a Celeron on a VIA-chipset board with a SCSI drive will work on an AthlonXP with an nForce board and an IDE drive, provided the drive has enough capacity for the system partition(s) that the original drive had. Could be a good use for an old drive if you have one lying around. AFAIK WinXP Home doesn't offer ASR, so that's not going to help everyone.

 

[Insane3D]

Well, I think we all just have different opinions on this, and that's fine. The original poster asked if he *needed* to do a fresh install. I guess, technically, the answer is no. However, I think most will agree here, if you have the time , a fresh install is the safest bet to avoid trouble.

I'm done arguing this anyhow...you know that saying about a dead horse?

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: Cerb

Originally posted by: Insane3D
Why do people go through so much trouble to avoid a fresh install? I just don't get it?

'Trouble': ~3-15 minutes
Fresh install: ~3-7 days.

And over the next week or so you keep discovering the various small utilities that you don't have, and now must look for again.

My advice - try it, and if Windows doesn't like it, reinstall. I doubt that a new motherboard and CPU will make Windows unusable.

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: Insane3D
Yeah...repair will work, but it's a half-a$$ed way of doing things. For a high end setup like that, anything other than a fresh install is a waste of time IMO.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: Insane3D

WHY? How is it "better"? What is it doing for you other than letting Windows redetect your new hardware and install appropraite drivers?

Do you really need this question answered? Instead of trying to modify a existing windows install that has who knows what settings and such changed in the registry, you are starting from a freshly formatted drive, with a freshly installed, non-modified registry, and avoiding any conflict that may arise from such a install.

You dodged the question again; I hear a lot of people basically saying "A fresh install is obviously better", but nobody has provided any compelling reasons for this. What good is a "freshly-installed, non-modified registry", if the first thing you're going to do is install a dozen progams and updated drivers into it (thereby probably introducing the same modifications it had before)?

The Repair Installation throws away all your old hardware drivers and information -- what "conflict" are you going to have?

Doing the basic setup and driver install is quick (well, relatively quick; unless you have them all handy, you need to download and install updated drivers, Windows patches, and things like DirectX). It's tweaking every application you have so it's set up the way you want that's a huge PITA.

Maybe it's a PITA for YOU, but I don't think it's that big of a deal. As for updated drivers and patches, as I said, it can be added to the install CD, and it is something the casual user can do. There are several clear, and concise guides on how to do this out there, and most of the "work" involves simply cutting and pasting the info in the guides. Do you consider making a slipstreamed XP CD a hassle that the "average user" can't handle?

No, the average user COULD do it, but it's not worthwhile for a single install. Also, you have to keep the CD up to date (or else you'll just have to update the drivers again after the custom install) -- or do you want them to make a new slipstreamed CD every time they reinstall?

There you go again about the "average user", are you the "official spokesperson for the average user"? While the "average user" may not have access to a networked drive or a second PC, they should have access to a CDRW, especially with the 52X models under $30 now, and they can back up their stuff on a CD-R or CD-RW.

As I said, backing up bulk data (unless you have a *lot* of it, as some users do) is the easy part.

Yes, I consider it "half-assed" because I think it makes more sense to do things the correct way the a first time, then try a workaround/shortcut and hope it works ok.

And I think it makes more sense to do what's required, rather than vast overkill that results in a lot more hassle and wasted time.

As you said in your example, you needed to "finagle the video and chipset drivers" to get them to "play nice"....this simply doesn't happen with a fresh install. Do you know how much can be changed in the registry from past programs that may or may not cause problems down the road?

I beg to differ. Recently I had to do the same thing again after I updated my chipset drivers; there's a decent chance I'd have to do the same thing on a fresh install, unless everything was installed in the right order and it all went perfectly.

 

[Bumrush99]

Well, I found this... Pretty decent guide, but I think I'll still opt for a fresh install.

 

[Insane3D]

You dodged the question again

You might brush up on your reading skills. You asked:

WHY? How is it "better"? What is it doing for you other than letting Windows redetect your new hardware and install appropraite drivers?

I answered...

Instead of trying to modify a existing windows install that has who knows what settings and such changed in the registry, you are starting from a freshly formatted drive, with a freshly installed, non-modified registry, and avoiding any conflict that may arise from such a install.

Sorry I "dodged the question".

:roll:

 

[BFG10K]

What good is a "freshly-installed, non-modified registry",

A clean system has none of the old motherboard information, registry switches or drivers present and therefore there is zero chance of having problems.

Yes a repair might work just fine in most cases but to be safe it's best to do a clean install.

The Repair Installation throws away all your old hardware drivers and information -- what "conflict" are you going to have?

Are you sure? Because I don't believe it does. If it did it would be the same as a clean install in which case you'd gain absolutely nothing by doing a repair.

The whole point of a repair is to only replace damaged/corrupted files but leave everything else untouched so you don't have to install it again.

Granted, a 15000rpm SCSI drive is a little bit of help here, but that was maybe 3-4 hours of work?

For me personally it takes about 60 minutes to get my core OS installed (along with chipset drivers, DirectX, etc) and then perhaps another 30-60 minutes to reinstall the few programs that need to be installed (Office 2003, Visual Studio, etc).

So yeah, it's really no big deal and I only do it when I swap motherboards.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

The Repair Installation throws away all your old hardware drivers and information -- what "conflict" are you going to have?

Are you sure? Because I don't believe it does. If it did it would be the same as a clean install in which case you'd gain absolutely nothing by doing a repair.

The whole point of a repair is to only replace damaged/corrupted files but leave everything else untouched so you don't have to install it again.

It differs from a clean install mostly in that the parts of your registry *not* dealing with your hardware are left intact -- that is, it doesn't break all your installed programs.

It definitely goes through and redetects all your hardware again, and tries to reinstall appropriate drivers from the CD (just like a "clean" install does). This is the entire point of doing a Repair Installation as opposed to a full reinstall, since this is the important part when you change low-level hardware.

What I'm missing is what you all think a "clean" install is doing that this *isn't*.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: Insane3D

You dodged the question again

You might brush up on your reading skills. You asked:

WHY? How is it "better"? What is it doing for you other than letting Windows redetect your new hardware and install appropraite drivers?

I answered...

Instead of trying to modify a existing windows install that has who knows what settings and such changed in the registry, you are starting from a freshly formatted drive, with a freshly installed, non-modified registry, and avoiding any conflict that may arise from such a install.

Sorry I "dodged the question".

:roll:

You *originally* said:

It takes a bit more time than a repair, but it's a better choice when changing to a completely different platform.

I asked why it was a "better choice", and you didn't really provide a good answer -- you replied that it gives you a "freshly installed, non-modified registry". Which, of course, you're going to go off and modify in *exactly the same way* that you did before, by installing all your programs and drivers again. You also implied that you are likely to have conflicts if you don't do a full reinstall, but I'm just not seeing what you're going to conflict *with*, since all the hardware information is wiped out and replaced.

The only thing I could possibly see a full install fixing is registry *corruption* -- but that's a different issue, and not a real common one.

 

[Mem]

Good men listen to Mem ,reformat is the best option ,as to your important files etc they should always be backed up in some way like on another HD, CDR etc...you never know when your HD will fail.

(Pete )Insane3d called it right,Bumrush99 start reformatting it won`t take you long, as to installing all your other stuff well it took me less the 1 day and I did it the hard way with lots of coffee breaks .

Repair option does not always work and if you get stability problems you cannot rule out the OS unless you did a clean install.

 

[DotheDamnTHing]

Originally posted by: Insane3D
Yeah...repair will work, but it's a half-a$$ed way of doing things. For a high end setup like that, anything other than a fresh install is a waste of time IMO.