Surveillance program eavesdrops on thousands, and nets . . . almost no one

[catnap1972]

Originally posted by: Malak

If you aren't doing anything wrong, you have zero to worry about. I find it very sad and disturbing that so many people are afraid of what might happen if someone knew what they did in private.

It's really too bad too, since someone is already watching you.

Great--we'll be over next week to install the bedroom and bathroom cams as well as the tracking device for your car (if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about)

Please advise when the best time is for you and we'll schedule your install...thanks!

 

[MonkeyK]

Originally posted by: Malak

Originally posted by: MonkeyK
Somehow, I think we live in different countries. I live in America, Land of the Free.
In my country it is nobody's business what I do in private (as long as I am not hurting anyone). Even if someone else knowing doesn't directly affect me, it's still not their business.

Why have a government if they can't do their job? The point to a government is that you aren't free to do anything you want. That's called anarchy. They are here to govern us, to show us what we can and can't do, and why. The why has been thrown out the window in the last hundred years, but that doesn't mean we just quit. If you aren't doing anything wrong, you have zero to worry about. I find it very sad and disturbing that so many people are afraid of what might happen if someone knew what they did in private.

It's really too bad too, since someone is already watching you.

As I said, it sounds like you live in some other country. In America, it is not government's job to spy on you, unless they have reason to believe that you are doing something wrong. In America doing things out of the view of others does not mean that you are doing something illegal. In America doing things out of the view of others does not equal anarchy.

Furthermore, although what one does may be legal, that does not imply that one desires others to know that they do it. You will certianly learn about this after you hit puberty.

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: Malak
Why have a government if they can't do their job? The point to a government is that you aren't free to do anything you want. That's called anarchy.

I'm with you there!

Bush is NOT free to do anything he wants. I'd call it fascism though.

If you aren't doing anything wrong, you have zero to worry about. I find it very sad and disturbing that so many people are afraid of what might happen if someone knew what they did in private.

Right on!

We need to to put stop to all these cover ups, not releasing records, presidential priviledge, and stonewalled investigations. You're right, if he has nothing to hide there's zero to worry about. This kinda stuff below has got to stop,,,

"President Bush set limits yesterday on White House cooperation in three political disputes, saying he is determined to assert presidential prerogatives on such matters as domestic eavesdropping and congressional inquiries into Hurricane Katrina.

In a mid-morning news conference, Bush told reporters he is skeptical of a proposed law imposing new oversights on his use of the National Security Agency to listen in on electronic communications. He also said that he will block White House aides from testifying about the slow federal response to Hurricane Katrina, and that he will not release official White House photos of himself with former Republican lobbyist Jack Abramoff.

Facing repeated questions, Bush distanced himself from Abramoff"
[

you do wrong and it will catch up to you, no matter what.

I hope it catches up to him soon too.

Why shoudl the government hire you if they know you aren't a law-abiding citizen? If you are breaking the law, why shouldn't you get caught? These points are plain ridiculous. You are asking for the right to break the law and get away with it.

Speakin' the truth!

We shouldn't have hired Bush. He's breaking the law and needs to be caught. All these neocons are asking for him to have the right to break the law and get away with it.

 

[Lemon law]

Many good points being made here-----but the most important in my mind is teh fact the vast amounts of data are being collected AND NOT BEING DISCARDED. ---------regardless if you are so foolish to be clueless on the emormous temtation that any collector of this data will not use it for unintended purposes---be it blacmail, setting up a police state, or just being a nosy busybody up on the dirt on everybody------one has to ask some questions about the practice in general.

Question #1-----will it catch terrorists------general answer is no-----the serious threats are too smart----they communicate using corriers and human messengers.---------or innocently coded messages like the bake sale went well.

Question #2-------why is the Bush administration so hyer--spastic about not using the rubber stamp FISO courts to get approval------likely amswer----because it likely too broad and they are now surveling everyone foreign and domestic---evesdropping on ALL communications bands------how do we know how prevasive---because GWB&co. reveal nothing-----and play on American paranoia---accusing any foe of being weak on national security.

Question #3----in the history of the world----has any serious terrorist been caught using these methods?--don't count idiots like the shoebomber---Richard Reed---who can't even light his own shoes correctly----if any think a serious terrorist organization would use such a person or trust them to maintain secrecy they are clueless-----the people who will do future damage to us will be made of sterner stuff.----but if Richard Reed did not exist in the flesh they would have to have some boogey man to point to--------because they only seem to catch total idiots.

Question #4.------how may dollars is this currently costing?------and what will it cost in future in huge budgit defecit times.
If GWB &co. suceeds in not being stopped cold in thecourts or congress--you can bet the program will be hugely expanded
and the cost will expand with it.

Question #5-----I frequently metion Al-Quida and the associated idioties of GWB to freinds and family over the phone--maybe I get red flagged----yet the only danger I pose to this country and those who listen in is that any indivual
evesdropping on my conversations will likely die of boredom before I do any harm to this beloved country.-not sure if the opportunity to tell any evesdropping on said conversations exactly what I think of them and their ilk is worth the risk.--but they will get that what I think of them as an added bonus.

Question #6-----who has missed the fact Karl Rove touring the country and openly advertising that the REpubs will campain on these national security hype seeking to portrey dems as living in a pre 911 world---in the same fearmongering way the war in Iraq was sold on now known as totally false WMD issues.-------is their any limit on AMERICAN VOTER GULLABILITY--------this very thread may be a test of that.

 

[dimensionOFdissension]

If Malak's version of America is what we'll become then we're not even worth saving anymore.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: catnap1972

Originally posted by: Malak

If you aren't doing anything wrong, you have zero to worry about. I find it very sad and disturbing that so many people are afraid of what might happen if someone knew what they did in private.

It's really too bad too, since someone is already watching you.

Great--we'll be over next week to install the bedroom and bathroom cams as well as the tracking device for your car (if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about)

Please advise when the best time is for you and we'll schedule your install...thanks!

You forgot about the Lojak suppository!

 

[catnap1972]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: catnap1972

Originally posted by: Malak

If you aren't doing anything wrong, you have zero to worry about. I find it very sad and disturbing that so many people are afraid of what might happen if someone knew what they did in private.

It's really too bad too, since someone is already watching you.

Great--we'll be over next week to install the bedroom and bathroom cams as well as the tracking device for your car (if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about)

Please advise when the best time is for you and we'll schedule your install...thanks!

You forgot about the Lojak suppository!

They're on back order. Seems a certain "mega retailer" has placed an unprecedented order with the supplier and he doesn't know when any more will be available.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: Malak
Why have a government if they can't do their job? The point to a government is that you aren't free to do anything you want. That's called anarchy.

I'm with you there!

Bush is NOT free to do anything he wants. I'd call it fascism though.

If you aren't doing anything wrong, you have zero to worry about. I find it very sad and disturbing that so many people are afraid of what might happen if someone knew what they did in private.

Right on!

We need to to put stop to all these cover ups, not releasing records, presidential priviledge, and stonewalled investigations. You're right, if he has nothing to hide there's zero to worry about. This kinda stuff below has got to stop,,,

"President Bush set limits yesterday on White House cooperation in three political disputes, saying he is determined to assert presidential prerogatives on such matters as domestic eavesdropping and congressional inquiries into Hurricane Katrina.

In a mid-morning news conference, Bush told reporters he is skeptical of a proposed law imposing new oversights on his use of the National Security Agency to listen in on electronic communications. He also said that he will block White House aides from testifying about the slow federal response to Hurricane Katrina, and that he will not release official White House photos of himself with former Republican lobbyist Jack Abramoff.

Facing repeated questions, Bush distanced himself from Abramoff"
[

you do wrong and it will catch up to you, no matter what.

I hope it catches up to him soon too.

Why shoudl the government hire you if they know you aren't a law-abiding citizen? If you are breaking the law, why shouldn't you get caught? These points are plain ridiculous. You are asking for the right to break the law and get away with it.

Speakin' the truth!

We shouldn't have hired Bush. He's breaking the law and needs to be caught. All these neocons are asking for him to have the right to break the law and get away with it.

Touché! Excellent point. It does seem rather hypocritical for supporters of the most secretive administration in decades, an administration that routinely denies the public right to know what our government is doing, to then flip-flop and cry, "If you aren't doing anything wrong, you have zero to worry about." I find it very sad and disturbing that the Bush administration is so afraid of what might happen if Americans know what they do in private, especially since they allegedly work for us and represent our interests. I think too many of the Bush faithful forget that.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: Malak

Originally posted by: MonkeyK
Somehow, I think we live in different countries. I live in America, Land of the Free.
In my country it is nobody's business what I do in private (as long as I am not hurting anyone). Even if someone else knowing doesn't directly affect me, it's still not their business.

Why have a government if they can't do their job? The point to a government is that you aren't free to do anything you want. That's called anarchy. They are here to govern us, to show us what we can and can't do, and why. The why has been thrown out the window in the last hundred years, but that doesn't mean we just quit. If you aren't doing anything wrong, you have zero to worry about. I find it very sad and disturbing that so many people are afraid of what might happen if someone knew what they did in private.

It's really too bad too, since someone is already watching you.

Frankly, you are more terrorizing than Al Qaeda or OBL could ever be. You try to instill fear into those that cherish liberty, freedom and the rule of law. Frankly, you're a coward.

Well said.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: Malak

Originally posted by: MonkeyK
Somehow, I think we live in different countries. I live in America, Land of the Free.
In my country it is nobody's business what I do in private (as long as I am not hurting anyone). Even if someone else knowing doesn't directly affect me, it's still not their business.

Why have a government if they can't do their job? The point to a government is that you aren't free to do anything you want. That's called anarchy. They are here to govern us, to show us what we can and can't do, and why. The why has been thrown out the window in the last hundred years, but that doesn't mean we just quit. If you aren't doing anything wrong, you have zero to worry about. I find it very sad and disturbing that so many people are afraid of what might happen if someone knew what they did in private.

It's really too bad too, since someone is already watching you.

Please, whatever meds you're supposed to be on, start taking them again. You actually want to be a part of the sheeple. You're in totally different world than mine. Are you a product of recent public schooling, by any chance?

 

[techs]

The position:
If you aren't doing anything wrong, you have zero to worry about. I find it very sad and disturbing that so many people are afraid of what might happen if someone knew what they did in private.

The answer:
EVERY government. EVERY one in history has used this power against its own people.

EVERY one.

 

[shira]

According to Malak, there should be no need for ANY search warrants. I mean, if you aren't doing anything wrong, those pesky agents invading your home and your car, and periodically subjecting you to strip searches - all without warrants - aren't going to find anything. So what's the problem?

Why even bother having a Constitution in the first place? As long as you don't do or say or write anything wrong, don't meet with the "wrong kind" of people, don't interact with any "questionable" organizations, don't read the wrong kinds of books, don't watch the wrong kinds of movies, don't . . . . hell, if you just act like someone is ALWAYS watching you - you'll be fine!

Ain't America great!

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: Malak

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
If you are too stupid to see the potentials for abuse here, then there is no point in having a constructive conversation with you.

Everyone cries paranoia, but offers no real problems. If they were listening to your conversation with your grandma, would it really matter? Again, I see zero problems here. It offers the possibility, no matter how remote, to help people, and zero ability to hurt.

There are far worse things to be concerned about in any country, things that kill millions every year, yet some of you fight for those people's right to die, and fight against the things the government tries to do to help others.

Sounds like you would be right at home in the old Soviet Union. Papers, comrade? If you're not guilty, you have nothing to fear!

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Malak

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
If you are too stupid to see the potentials for abuse here, then there is no point in having a constructive conversation with you.

Everyone cries paranoia, but offers no real problems. If they were listening to your conversation with your grandma, would it really matter? Again, I see zero problems here. It offers the possibility, no matter how remote, to help people, and zero ability to hurt.

There are far worse things to be concerned about in any country, things that kill millions every year, yet some of you fight for those people's right to die, and fight against the things the government tries to do to help others.

Sounds like you would be right at home in the old Soviet Union. Papers, comrade? If you're not guilty, you have nothing to fear!

I think Ronald Reagan must be spinning in his grave to see how much "his" party is starting to mimic the "Evil Empire", not to mention their big government, big spending ways. He'd probably go back to being a Democrat.

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: Malak

Originally posted by: feralkid
So, you didn't even read Rainsford's eloquent response?

You just defaulted back to "I don't see a problem".

Well, then we can only assume you never will, either.

Thanks for giving it zero effort.

:roll:

I did read it, and still didn't see the issue. I referred to it as paranoia, which is exactly what it is. People want to find a problem with it, without finding a good reason to have it. There is no real problem. Like I said, it isn't hurting anyone.

What if a Democrat were doing the spying?

(note to sane, rational people: this should get his antenna twitching?)

 

[NJDevil]

Originally posted by: arsbanned

Originally posted by: Malak

Originally posted by: feralkid
So, you didn't even read Rainsford's eloquent response?

You just defaulted back to "I don't see a problem".

Well, then we can only assume you never will, either.

Thanks for giving it zero effort.

:roll:

I did read it, and still didn't see the issue. I referred to it as paranoia, which is exactly what it is. People want to find a problem with it, without finding a good reason to have it. There is no real problem. Like I said, it isn't hurting anyone.

What if a Democrat were doing the spying?

(note to sane, rational people: this should get his antenna twitching?)

I feel like that's a question everyone should ask themselves regarding issues of power and authority. Imagine your least favorite political figure in the position to use that power, would you want them to? (at least, with the checks/balances that exist with the politician they do like).

If you're a bush supporter, would you want Hillary Clinton with the authority to grant wiretaps on anyone, as long as she claims they are terrorists, with no checks to this power?

 

[wirelessenabled]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: Malak
What is wrong with what they are doing? How does their actions have any affect on us as individuals? I can see zero harm being done.

If you are too stupid to see the potentials for abuse here, then there is no point in having a constructive conversation with you.

What he said! How can people be so ignorant of history?

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: wirelessenabled

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: Malak
What is wrong with what they are doing? How does their actions have any affect on us as individuals? I can see zero harm being done.

If you are too stupid to see the potentials for abuse here, then there is no point in having a constructive conversation with you.

What he said! How can people be so ignorant of history?

History can be rewritten. Sure, you have mold your own history to a few facts that can't really be ignored, but then you can just taylor the rest to your views.

1984 and F451 both represent severe extremes, but the same sort of stuff happens in reality to much lesser degrees.