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Surrogacy should be illegal

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Chiropteran said:
Okay, here is a less ridiculous example. Couple of buddies out drinking, a few hours later they decide to drive home, stupid drunk. Why not? They are consenting adults.

Point is very simple: just because 2 consenting adults agree to do something, doesn't mean it should be legalized.
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really? i mean, really?
like seriously really?
 
Chiropteran said:
The average ATOT response here reminds me a lot of this video-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il3o4rmcLBc

Attitude seems to be that if you pay enough money you should be able to do whatever you want.

I won't comment directly on the OP's topic, but I will say a lot of posters here sound like they are posting from a position that lacks any sort of life experience.

"Government has no business getting involved in the behavior of consenting adults."

Yeah, right. If a couple adults want to burn down a house because the owner has different colored skin, they should be free to do so! The government needs to just mind it's own business. And if one consenting adult wants to pay another consenting adult to murder a particularly annoying person, that should be A-OK too! And if I get caught speeding, I should be allowed to offer the cop $500 to let the ticket slide, since it would just be an agreement between consenting adults.
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Your examples suck.

If two consenting adults want to fight their dogs, should it be any of government's business? If two consenting adults wanted to built a second floor to their home, should it be any of government's business?

EDIT: Thought of another one. Two consenting adults enter an agreement where they stand to financially gain or lose money based on an outcome outside their control. Should it be the government's business?
 
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her209 said:
Your examples suck.

If two consenting adults want to fight their dogs, should it be any of government's business? If two consenting adults wanted to built a second floor to their home, should it be any of government's business?
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Yeah, I realized that. That is why I brought up the drunk driving example. Dog fighting is another good one, although the trolls will probably say it's not the same thing because the dogs didn't consent.

Anyway, I think I made my point. You can't use a broad statement as part of your argument if it's easily proven false when applied in broad situations.
 
Chiropteran said:
Yeah, I realized that. That is why I brought up the drunk driving example. Dog fighting is another good one, although the trolls will probably say it's not the same thing because the dogs didn't consent.

Anyway, I think I made my point. You can't use a broad statement as part of your argument if it's easily proven false when applied in broad situations.
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Drunk driving is still involving non-consenting parties on the roadway.

Come up with an example only involving the two consenting adults that should be outlawed.
 
so how will rich mommy breast feed her new babby if she didnt get preggers?

guess shes going to have to import it from shitfuckistan and turn surrogate mother into a dairy cow now.

i can see greedy people turning this 'service' into puppy mills soon.
 
Chiropteran said:
Yeah, I realized that. That is why I brought up the drunk driving example. Dog fighting is another good one, although the trolls will probably say it's not the same thing because the dogs didn't consent.

Anyway, I think I made my point. You can't use a broad statement as part of your argument if it's easily proven false when applied in broad situations.
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you have proven multiple times that you're a moron who can't come up with a valid example to save your life.

drunk driving can and often does involve non-consenting individuals.
 
Spikesoldier said:
so how will rich mommy breast feed her new babby if she didnt get preggers?

guess shes going to have to import it from shitfuckistan and turn surrogate mother into a dairy cow now.

i can see greedy people turning this 'service' into puppy mills soon.
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Women don't have to get pregnant to breast feed, wtf is with people today.
 
that is as asinine as making abortions illegal simply because you assume so many use it as birth control, or even, gasp! as sexual selection (some do, actually.)
 
BrunoPuntzJones said:
Derp derp. Are you serious? Women been birthing babies since the dawn of man, they are made to do it. Yet it's more dangerous than an organ transplant?
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well, actually, since the dawn of humans, it was incredibly dangerous. It was only until modern OBGYN and maternity medicine, and I'm talking only 70-80 years of serious protocol-driven medicine, the mortality rate in ave. child birth dipped (in modern health care) from some 40% to less than 5%.

It is the single most successful improvement in quality care in any modern medical field, and even though it is a relatively new advance, the majority of generations alive today simply have no experience with how serious the process was for generations of human history. it's one of the reasons families used to be so much larger, why housewives were more prominent (more pregnancies). Children, especially in child birth, died all the time. It was very, very common.

In fact, we aren't "perfectly designed for child birth." ....humans are born very young and undeveloped compared to most mammals--our gigantic brains leading to larger heads, but the female pelvis--while adapting--isn't exactly perfect for such a massive head.

hell, pregnancy today is no certain thing. Unless you and your spouse are trying to get pregnant, you probably aren't aware of how difficult it can be--and how easily and unexpectedly one can miscarriage (even when one didn't know she was pregnant)--friends and family don't always share these things with others, so people remain largely oblivious to how common this is.
 
I have a good friend who's sterile, she's been discussing the possibility of surrogacy with her sister in hopes that she could have a child that's as close to biologically hers as possible. I'll be sure to direct her to this thread, though, as I'm sure the OP's opinions would enlighten her.
 
DougoMan said:
That's fine, you are entitled to your opinion. I'm glad the majority of society disagrees with you on this point, though.

Will you acknowledge that the three activities are similar in nature, however? That is more of my point. If prostitution and organ sales are illegal, so should surrogacy.

If prostitution and organ donation are legal, then I might buy that surrogacy might as well be legal as well.

I just do not see why there is this huge disconnect between surrogacy and organ donation, in particular, as they are both risky activities for those involved. Although organ donation does not carry the emotional baggage that losing a child you felt crawl around in your belly for months does.
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With both prostitution and surrogacy, a person is offering a service to someone else which makes use of some aspect of the seller's body. If you want to go a bit farther, giving blood is also along the same vein. (Yeah, I went there.)
Your body does things for which other people are willing to pay money in order to gain limited access.
So hey, it's your body, rent it out if you want to. Be mindful of wear and tear though. 🙂

As a species though, we tend to get all psychotic whenever anything involving genitals comes up, often behaving about as rationally as a bunch of chimps trying to figure out a 1-megavolt Tesla Coil. It amounts to a lot of crazed screaming and ranting, all centered around the horrors of basic reproductive functionality which nearly every adult member of the species has.



Selling of organs: That's starting to stray from this category, as it's not really a rental service. You're completely giving up the functionality of the organ, which can be self-destructive. Our species also has a tendency of defaulting to short-term solutions, at the expense of our future selves. Sell 1 kidney today, I can pay my mortgage for another month. Sell 2 kidneys today, and I can pay for even longer. Oh, wait...crap.
 
JulesMaximus said:
Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit.

My wife went through pregnancy and gave birth to our son after carrying him alive inside her for 9 months. He was a separate entity living inside her, a part of her, she could feel him moving around, he reacted to sounds and movements. To compare child birth to auto repair is perhaps the dumbest fucking thing I've ever read on these forums.

Can it be agreed upon by two parties and drawn up in legal contracts? Yes. Is it the same as any other transaction? No fucking way.

And it's not just 2 consenting adults. It is at least 2 consenting adults, frequently 3 adults (woman who doesn't want to or cannot conceive, woman who will carry the child, sperm donor), plus the child him/herself. I'm not even going to get into the possible emotions that could complicate things.

It amazes me the way some people here try to trivialize things like child birth.
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You are sounding like the anti abortion nutjobs. Pregnancy is not a big deal, as George Carlin said "Every ejaculation does not need a name." Many couples get pregnant by accident in fact many people I went to highschool with were very good at that.
 
i'm surprised op isn't hal, the brits do this ban everything under the sun mentality. they've even banned anonymous sperm donation..leading to wonderful shortages.
 
BlahBlahYouToo said:
you have proven multiple times that you're a moron who can't come up with a valid example to save your life.

drunk driving can and often does involve non-consenting individuals.
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But in my example it doesn't. Plenty of drunk drivers are able to amble home without getting involved in any accidents, it doesn't make it any more legal. It's also possible a child born to a surrogate could go on to become a serial killer or other criminal.
Small chance? Probably.

The drunk trying to explain to the cop that he was only driving 1/4 mile down a country road at half the speed limit at night when nobody else was driving on it also has a pretty small chance of ever impacting anyone else. That doesn't change it's legal status.
 
zinfamous said:
well, actually, since the dawn of humans, it was incredibly dangerous. It was only until modern OBGYN and maternity medicine, and I'm talking only 70-80 years of serious protocol-driven medicine, the mortality rate in ave. child birth dipped (in modern health care) from some 40% to less than 5%.

It is the single most successful improvement in quality care in any modern medical field, and even though it is a relatively new advance, the majority of generations alive today simply have no experience with how serious the process was for generations of human history. it's one of the reasons families used to be so much larger, why housewives were more prominent (more pregnancies). Children, especially in child birth, died all the time. It was very, very common.

In fact, we aren't "perfectly designed for child birth." ....humans are born very young and undeveloped compared to most mammals--our gigantic brains leading to larger heads, but the female pelvis--while adapting--isn't exactly perfect for such a massive head.

hell, pregnancy today is no certain thing. Unless you and your spouse are trying to get pregnant, you probably aren't aware of how difficult it can be--and how easily and unexpectedly one can miscarriage (even when one didn't know she was pregnant)--friends and family don't always share these things with others, so people remain largely oblivious to how common this is.
Click to expand...

Oh, I'm very aware actually. Kinda funny that all it took was someone figuring to wash their hands after each delivery could make such a big difference 😛

I was just stating that thinking an organ transplant could somehow be safer than pregnancy was ridonkulous.
 
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