Surrogacy should be illegal

[lxskllr]

Ok, then I hope you support prostitution and the sale of organs for profit.

I support both of these activities. Government has no business getting involved in the behavior of consenting adults.

Seriously?

Yea, seriously.

 

[MotF Bane]

Ok, then I hope you support prostitution and the sale of organs for profit.

The fact is that both of these activities prey on poor people.





You could not be more wrong about all of this.

First off, having one kidney is not a very big deal.

Secondly, a liver transplant does not involve removing your liver. They cut a portion out of it and it grows back.

Finally, if you think childbirth is safe, you are INSANE. Before modern medicine, it was the number one cause of death for women. You would be amazed how common it was to die during childbirth. So to say that because it is natural that it is safe, is absolutely absurd.

It is obviously safer today, but a lot of women still die from childbirth.

Also, there are lasting physical effects that I would argue are probably worse than getting a kidney or liver removed. At least when you are done with those, you do not show any wear and tear on your body.

Once you have given birth, developing hemorrhoids and no longer being able to control your bladder are not at all uncommon.

Not to mention weight gain. Almost all women never return to their pre-pregnancy weight and you should be well aware of the role that obesity plays in disease.

That was an easy one.





Seriously?





Why don't you learn some manners and debate in a civilized fashion. Though it is apparent you do not have anything intelligent to add anyhow.

Just answering the first bit, yes, I have no problems with sale of organs or prostitution. so much for that theory.

t

 

[JulesMaximus]

Some people(me) don't like doing car work, so they pay someone else to do it. No difference.

Um, I think there is a bit of a difference.

 

[MotF Bane]

Um, I think there is a bit of a difference.

Legal contact between two consenting adults.
t

 

[DougoMan]

I support both of these activities. Government has no business getting involved in the behavior of consenting adults.

That's fine, you are entitled to your opinion. I'm glad the majority of society disagrees with you on this point, though.

Will you acknowledge that the three activities are similar in nature, however? That is more of my point. If prostitution and organ sales are illegal, so should surrogacy.

If prostitution and organ donation are legal, then I might buy that surrogacy might as well be legal as well.

I just do not see why there is this huge disconnect between surrogacy and organ donation, in particular, as they are both risky activities for those involved. Although organ donation does not carry the emotional baggage that losing a child you felt crawl around in your belly for months does.

 

[lxskllr]

Um, I think there is a bit of a difference.

No, there's no more difference than an other transaction that's made between adults.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Standard pregnancy can be a huge legal mess. I knew a kid that was born into a family and he was subjected to physical and mental abuse.

Granted, that is only one situation where it went wrong.

Nice, comparing apples to oranges much?

 

[PottedMeat]

It is obviously safer today, but a lot of women still die from childbirth.

Also, there are lasting physical effects that I would argue are probably worse than getting a kidney or liver removed. At least when you are done with those, you do not show any wear and tear on your body.

Once you have given birth, developing hemorrhoids and no longer being able to control your bladder are not at all uncommon.

Not to mention weight gain. Almost all women never return to their pre-pregnancy weight and you should be well aware of the role that obesity plays in disease.

do you have actual rates on these in the first world?

and you seriously cite weight gain as a reason to ban this?

 

[OCGuy]

How does it make you feel that you will never get your wish OP? It will never be banned.

Are you angry? Upset? Or do you think somehow this thread is going to start a national movement about a subject that frankly nobody who isnt directly involved doesnt give two shits about?


Not to mention the misogynistic overtones of your post. "Oh, we need to protect the women, they are too dumb for their own good! They will gain weight!"

That is about as anti-woman as it gets.

 

[Fausto]

do you have actual rates on these in the first world?

and you seriously cite weight gain as a reason to ban this?

Nobody likes fat chicks, bro.

 

[lxskllr]

Will you acknowledge that the three activities are similar in nature, however? That is more of my point. If prostitution and organ sales are illegal, so should surrogacy.

I reject all laws that are put in place to establish "morals" when they don't affect anyone but the people involved. We come onto this planet with absolutely full rights. Governments restrict rights. They have no authority to grant anything.

If prostitution and organ donation are legal, then I would argue surrogacy might as well be legal as well.

I agree that all should be legal. Oppressive laws shouldn't be the basis of more oppressive laws. Restricting rights is never the correct course of action.

 

[PottedMeat]

How does it make you feel that you will never get your wish OP? It will never be banned.

Are you angry? Upset? Or do you think somehow this thread is going to start a national movement about a subject that frankly nobody who isnt directly involved doesnt give two shits about?


Not to mention the misogynistic overtones of your post. "Oh, we need to protect the women, they are too dumb for their own good! They will gain weight!"

That is about as anti-woman as it gets.

yeah his rant sounds personal.

 

[Gooberlx2]

Am I the only one that thinks surrogacy is messed up?

Though it may help some families that cannot conceive, increasingly it is just used by rich women who do not want to undergo the pain and bodily wear that comes from giving birth.

Proof? The conjecture that some vain couples may not want to deal with the pain and figure altering experience, doesn't take away from the fact that surrogacy helps many many couples who can't carry a child on their own.

The surrogates usually agree never to see the babies they give birth to again. In fact couples, like one a nurse friend of mine dealt with the other day, actually travel great distances to make sure they will be out of reach of their surrogates.

And this is a problem why? Makes sense if you want extra assurance that the surrogate won't try to interfere with your kid's life and/or family dynamic.

 

[OCGuy]

I personally know women that would slap you silly for trying to think you know what is best for them. Trust me, they dont need your "protection."

 

[JulesMaximus]

No, there's no more difference than an other transaction that's made between adults.

Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit.

My wife went through pregnancy and gave birth to our son after carrying him alive inside her for 9 months. He was a separate entity living inside her, a part of her, she could feel him moving around, he reacted to sounds and movements. To compare child birth to auto repair is perhaps the dumbest fucking thing I've ever read on these forums.

Can it be agreed upon by two parties and drawn up in legal contracts? Yes. Is it the same as any other transaction? No fucking way.

And it's not just 2 consenting adults. It is at least 2 consenting adults, frequently 3 adults (woman who doesn't want to or cannot conceive, woman who will carry the child, sperm donor), plus the child him/herself. I'm not even going to get into the possible emotions that could complicate things.

It amazes me the way some people here try to trivialize things like child birth.

 

[lxskllr]

Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit.

My wife went through pregnancy and gave birth to our son after carrying him alive inside her for 9 months. He was a separate entity living inside her, a part of her, she could feel him moving around, he reacted to sounds and movements. To compare child birth to auto repair is perhaps the dumbest fucking thing I've ever read on these forums.

Can it be agreed upon by two parties and drawn up in legal contracts? Yes. Is it the same as any other transaction? No fucking way.

And it's not just 2 consenting adults. It is at least 2 consenting adults, frequently 3 adults (woman who doesn't want to or cannot conceive, woman who will carry the child, sperm donor), plus the child him/herself. I'm not even going to get into the possible emotions that could complicate things.

It amazes me the way some people here try to trivialize things like child birth.

Get over yourself. Transactions are naturally variable, and they range from buying a pack of gum, to invading another country. Your emotions don't fuckin' matter. The fact is, it isn't anyone's business other than the people that are involved. Not you, not me, and ESPECIALLY not the government....

 

[insect9]

I just do not see why there is this huge disconnect between surrogacy and organ donation, in particular, as they are both risky activities for those involved. Although organ donation does not carry the emotional baggage that losing a child you felt crawl around in your belly for months does.

So... We should ban everything that's risky for those involved?

Should we also ban adoption? After all, there might be emotional baggage from losing a child you felt crawl around in your belly for months...

 

[OCGuy]

yeah his rant sounds personal.

Yea I am guessing the OP falls in one of these categories:

1. Works for or with an adoption agency. Would rather see the unwanted kids adopted before new kids are brought into the world. The same type of militancy can be seen in the "Dont buy purebred" dog people who push shelter dogs for all.

2. Has a baron wife, and they either couldn't afford a surrogate, or couldnt bring themselves to do it. They have to choose between no children and adoption

and the most unlikely:

3. He is a surrogate test-tuber himself, and has some emotional baggage about the person who brought him to term.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Get over yourself. Transactions are naturally variable, and they range from buying a pack of gum, to invading another country. Your emotions don't fuckin' matter. The fact is, it isn't anyone's business other than the people that are involved. Not you, not me, and ESPECIALLY not the government....

Where did I say the government should get involved? You said it was the same as a car repair transaction. I say you're wrong.

No, my emotions don't matter in this case, but I can see where the emotions of the parties involved could really complicate the transaction. That's when government and the courts are forced to get involved to help straighten out the legal mess. You have a biological mother, a child, a couple that wants the baby...it's not just another transaction.

Trivialize it all you want but you're still wrong.

 

[gaidensensei]

The surrogate mother takes all the emotional and physical toil. 99.99% of the time in the USA, she's likely agreeing to carry the child. Since most of the time there's some sort of reward involved, I don't see why they cannot turn it down. Your body, your money. Ipad kidney chinese boy?

The biological mother and father have their reasons. Here is where other people will disagree with their process; this is the target that's supposed to be focused on. People acknowledge they are taking an "easy way out", no work is involved for them pre-birth.

There are no right and wrong answers, only opinions on what is right and wrong to spectators.

 

[JulesMaximus]

The surrogate mother takes all the emotional and physical toil. 99.99% of the time in the USA, she's likely agreeing to carry the child. Since most of the time there's some sort of reward involved, I don't see why they cannot turn it down. Your body, your money. Ipad kidney chinese boy?

The biological mother and father have their reasons. Here is where other people will disagree with their process; this is the target that's supposed to be focused on. People acknowledge they are taking an "easy way out", no work is involved for them pre-birth.

There are no right and wrong answers, only opinions on what is right and wrong to spectators.

Where it gets complicated is when the woman carrying the baby gets emotionally attached to this fetus growing inside her. Her maternal instincts kick in and/or hormones start to affect her and she has a change of heart about giving the child up. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just that I can understand how this could be an issue.

 

[her209]

Get over yourself. Transactions are naturally variable, and they range from buying a pack of gum, to invading another country. Your emotions don't fuckin' matter. The fact is, it isn't anyone's business other than the people that are involved. Not you, not me, and ESPECIALLY not the government....

Since we're comparing surrogation to mechanical work, if the baby turns out to have physical/mental problems, should baby be considered defective and the surrogate mother be forced to take the baby back and fix the problems?

 

[TheVrolok]

This has gotta be a troll post, there's no way someone is this misguided/confused.

 

[lxskllr]

Since we're comparing surrogation to mechanical work, if the baby turns out to have physical/mental problems, should baby be considered defective and the surrogate mother be forced to take the baby back and fix the problems?

You really need help thinking this through?! Does someone wipe your ass for you also? :^S

 

[mrjminer]

Since we're comparing surrogation to mechanical work, if the baby turns out to have physical/mental problems, should baby be considered defective and the surrogate mother be forced to take the baby back and fix the problems?

It depends on the contract the two parties signed.