Surgeon general warns of secondhand smoke

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Originally posted by: Extelleron
Just because it's private property doesn't mean squat. A supermarket is a public place. Not public property, but the public gathers there.

And remind me how, by SOMEONE ELSE making the decision to smake, "I" am putting myself in a harmful situation? If I'm at a restuarant and people are smoking, I can't make them stop, can I? They are hurting my health, and inconveniencing me. It's the government's job to protect my right to clean air, not the smoker's right to kill themselves and try to take others with them.

A private establishment can descriminate for any reason, other than race, religion, or creed. A business owner refuse you service because you are too fat, too short, too stupid, don't smoke, or any of a multitude of reasons.

A restaurant is not "public". Unless, of course, it was built and paid for by taxpayers - in which case you can complain all you want. But since you don't own the joint, you shouldn't have a say in how it is run.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: KnightBreed

Originally posted by: Extelleron
Just because it's private property doesn't mean squat. A supermarket is a public place. Not public property, but the public gathers there.

And remind me how, by SOMEONE ELSE making the decision to smake, "I" am putting myself in a harmful situation? If I'm at a restuarant and people are smoking, I can't make them stop, can I? They are hurting my health, and inconveniencing me. It's the government's job to protect my right to clean air, not the smoker's right to kill themselves and try to take others with them.

A private establishment can descriminate for any reason, other than race, religion, or creed. A business owner refuse you service because you are too fat, too short, too stupid, don't smoke, or any of a multitude of reasons.

A restaurant is not "public". Unless, of course, it was built and paid for by taxpayers - in which case you can complain all you want. But since you don't own the joint, you shouldn't have a say in how it is run.

Wrong. The government can say you can't smoke in that "private business" just as they can say you can't kill in it. It can cause death, and the government must protect us from smokers.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Why should I have to deal with smokers?
Why should I have to deal with smokers on the street?
Why should I have to deal with smokers at the store?
Why should I have to deal with smokers at a restaurant?
Why should I have to deal with smokers at the bowling alley?
Why should I have to deal with smokers in public buildings?
Why should kids have no choice but to breathe in smoke every day, when they don't have a choice?

Why shouldn't you?

Why should you be granted the right to dictate what occurs on another person's paid-for, private, property?
Why are you patronizing businesses that don't support your personal preferences when there are so many others out there?
Why should you support the stripping away of private property rights because you're inconvenienced?
Why are you going to bitch and moan the next time a right that you actually care about is taken away while you stood by when the government did it to others?

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: KnightBreed

Originally posted by: Extelleron
Just because it's private property doesn't mean squat. A supermarket is a public place. Not public property, but the public gathers there.

And remind me how, by SOMEONE ELSE making the decision to smake, "I" am putting myself in a harmful situation? If I'm at a restuarant and people are smoking, I can't make them stop, can I? They are hurting my health, and inconveniencing me. It's the government's job to protect my right to clean air, not the smoker's right to kill themselves and try to take others with them.

A private establishment can descriminate for any reason, other than race, religion, or creed. A business owner refuse you service because you are too fat, too short, too stupid, don't smoke, or any of a multitude of reasons.

A restaurant is not "public". Unless, of course, it was built and paid for by taxpayers - in which case you can complain all you want. But since you don't own the joint, you shouldn't have a say in how it is run.

Wrong. The government can say you can't smoke in that "private business" just as they can say you can't kill in it. It can cause death, and the government must protect us from smokers.

You are a fool. That's the whole issue at hand; the government violating the notion of private property rights.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Why should I have to deal with smokers?
Why should I have to deal with smokers on the street?
Why should I have to deal with smokers at the store?
Why should I have to deal with smokers at a restaurant?
Why should I have to deal with smokers at the bowling alley?
Why should I have to deal with smokers in public buildings?
Why should kids have no choice but to breathe in smoke every day, when they don't have a choice?

Why shouldn't you?

Why should you be granted the right to dictate what occurs on another person's paid-for, private, property?
Why are you patronizing businesses that don't support your personal preferences when there are so many others out there?
Why should you support the stripping away of private property rights because you're inconvenienced?
Why are you going to bitch and moan the next time a right that you actually care about is taken away while you stood by when the government did it to others?

There is no such thing as the "Right to smoke in public areas and cause death to others."

Anyone who supports rights for those that choose to kill themselves and try to take other people with them has their priorities messed up.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: KnightBreed
This thread pretty much took the same path as every thread about second hand smoke before it.

Correct. I wonder just how many pages this one will make it to?

They usually start to fizzle out around 150-200 posts. I suspect this thread to be no different.

The problem is, the few intelligent folks from the "anti-smoking" camp tend to avoid these threads because they recognize that smoking bans are generally about nuisance and personal preference - not public safety.

Instead you get people like Extelleron frothing at the mouth about public property and emphazema.:roll:

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: KnightBreed

Originally posted by: Extelleron
Just because it's private property doesn't mean squat. A supermarket is a public place. Not public property, but the public gathers there.

And remind me how, by SOMEONE ELSE making the decision to smake, "I" am putting myself in a harmful situation? If I'm at a restuarant and people are smoking, I can't make them stop, can I? They are hurting my health, and inconveniencing me. It's the government's job to protect my right to clean air, not the smoker's right to kill themselves and try to take others with them.

A private establishment can descriminate for any reason, other than race, religion, or creed. A business owner refuse you service because you are too fat, too short, too stupid, don't smoke, or any of a multitude of reasons.

A restaurant is not "public". Unless, of course, it was built and paid for by taxpayers - in which case you can complain all you want. But since you don't own the joint, you shouldn't have a say in how it is run.

Wrong. The government can say you can't smoke in that "private business" just as they can say you can't kill in it. It can cause death, and the government must protect us from smokers.

You are a fool. That's the whole issue at hand; the government violating the notion of private property rights.

No, I am not a fool. He who wants those who are killing themselves and taking others with them is a fool. The government has every right to use any amount of force neccessary to protect the majority of citizens.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: Extelleron
Why should I have to deal with smokers?
Why should I have to deal with smokers on the street?
Why should I have to deal with smokers at the store?
Why should I have to deal with smokers at a restaurant?
Why should I have to deal with smokers at the bowling alley?
Why should I have to deal with smokers in public buildings?
Why should kids have no choice but to breathe in smoke every day, when they don't have a choice?

And yet you're just fine with motor vehicle exhaust?

 

[KK]

ah, hog wash.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: Extelleron
Why should I have to deal with smokers?
Why should I have to deal with smokers on the street?
Why should I have to deal with smokers at the store?
Why should I have to deal with smokers at a restaurant?
Why should I have to deal with smokers at the bowling alley?
Why should I have to deal with smokers in public buildings?
Why should kids have no choice but to breathe in smoke every day, when they don't have a choice?

And yet you're just fine with motor vehicle exhaust?

So now they're bringing in motor vehicles into the stores, the restaurants, and the public areas?

When you encounter motor vehicle exhaust fumes, you're in your car, not right next to the person smoking.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Extelleron
Why should I have to deal with smokers?

you dont have to deal with them. don't allow smokers in your house or a business you own

Why should I have to deal with smokers on the street?

walk away or drive. 1 second (if that) is not going to kill you.

Why should I have to deal with smokers at the store?

find a store that is non-smoking. if none around feel free to open one up yourself.

Why should I have to deal with smokers at a restaurant?

again find one that is non-smokeing. if none around feel free to open one up yourself

Why should I have to deal with smokers at the bowling alley?

same as above. open one yourself blah blah

Why should I have to deal with smokers in public buildings?

a true public building (such as a library, welfare office etc) i agree! bars, stores etc are private business and not public

Why should kids have no choice but to breathe in smoke every day, when they don't have a choice?

if you do not want your kids to inhale 2nd hand smoke do not smoke or allow them in places that allow smokeing.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Why should I have to deal with smokers?
Why should I have to deal with smokers on the street?
Why should I have to deal with smokers at the store?
Why should I have to deal with smokers at a restaurant?
Why should I have to deal with smokers at the bowling alley?
Why should I have to deal with smokers in public buildings?
Why should kids have no choice but to breathe in smoke every day, when they don't have a choice?

Why shouldn't you?

Why should you be granted the right to dictate what occurs on another person's paid-for, private, property?
Why are you patronizing businesses that don't support your personal preferences when there are so many others out there?
Why should you support the stripping away of private property rights because you're inconvenienced?
Why are you going to bitch and moan the next time a right that you actually care about is taken away while you stood by when the government did it to others?

There is no such thing as the "Right to smoke in public areas and cause death to others."

Anyone who supports rights for those that choose to kill themselves and try to take other people with them has their priorities messed up.

Do you eat fatty foods?
Do you ever drink alcohol and have more than 5 drinks in a single sitting?
Do you strictly regulate your diet?
Do you put suntan lotion on when you go out into the summer?

Smokers do not try to take others with them. By you actively choosing to put yourself into harms way, you are choosing to expose yourself to the possible dangers of second-hand smoke.

Tell me, if you are notified before entering private property that there is going to be smoking on the premesises, why do you feel it's your right to still enter that building and have all the other patrons conform to your choices?

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Originally posted by: Extelleron
Wrong. The government can say you can't smoke in that "private business" just as they can say you can't kill in it. It can cause death, and the government must protect us from smokers.

LOL.😀 The Federal Government - our savior!

When the argument becomes this absurd, I feel it time to bow out.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Extelleron
Why should I have to deal with smokers?

you dont have to deal with them. don't allow smokers in your house or a business you own

Why should I have to deal with smokers on the street?

walk away or drive. 1 second (if that) is not going to kill you.

Why should I have to deal with smokers at the store?

find a store that is non-smoking. if none around feel free to open one up yourself.

Why should I have to deal with smokers at a restaurant?

again find one that is non-smokeing. if none around feel free to open one up yourself

Why should I have to deal with smokers at the bowling alley?

same as above. open one yourself blah blah

Why should I have to deal with smokers in public buildings?

a true public building (such as a library, welfare office etc) i agree! bars, stores etc are private business and not public

Why should kids have no choice but to breathe in smoke every day, when they don't have a choice?

if you do not want your kids to inhale 2nd hand smoke do not smoke or allow them in places that allow smokeing.

Why should I have to go to another store or open my own because a few people are killing others at one of them?

What about kids who have parents that smoke? What about kids who's parents are like you?

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: KnightBreed

Originally posted by: Extelleron
Wrong. The government can say you can't smoke in that "private business" just as they can say you can't kill in it. It can cause death, and the government must protect us from smokers.

LOL.😀 The Federal Government - our savior!

When the argument becomes this absurd, I feel it time to bow out.

You're the one who's absurd.

The government is bound to protect its citizens. The government is bound to protect me and you from smokers, just as they protect us from murders and thieves.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: KnightBreed

Originally posted by: Extelleron
Wrong. The government can say you can't smoke in that "private business" just as they can say you can't kill in it. It can cause death, and the government must protect us from smokers.

LOL.😀 The Federal Government - our savior!

When the argument becomes this absurd, I feel it time to bow out.

I'm bowing out after this little gem:

Originally posted by: Extelleron
The government has every right to use any amount of force neccessary to protect the majority of citizens.

I can guarandamntee you that he is more than likely up in arms about things such as the Patriot Act, Racial Profiling, Speeding tickets, National ID Cards, etc.

But since it's smoking, the government exercising any amount of power to get rid of it is fine with him.

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: KnightBreed

Originally posted by: Extelleron
Just because it's private property doesn't mean squat. A supermarket is a public place. Not public property, but the public gathers there.

And remind me how, by SOMEONE ELSE making the decision to smake, "I" am putting myself in a harmful situation? If I'm at a restuarant and people are smoking, I can't make them stop, can I? They are hurting my health, and inconveniencing me. It's the government's job to protect my right to clean air, not the smoker's right to kill themselves and try to take others with them.

A private establishment can descriminate for any reason, other than race, religion, or creed. A business owner refuse you service because you are too fat, too short, too stupid, don't smoke, or any of a multitude of reasons.

A restaurant is not "public". Unless, of course, it was built and paid for by taxpayers - in which case you can complain all you want. But since you don't own the joint, you shouldn't have a say in how it is run.

Wrong. The government can say you can't smoke in that "private business" just as they can say you can't kill in it. It can cause death, and the government must protect us from smokers.

You are a fool. That's the whole issue at hand; the government violating the notion of private property rights.

That's a pretty weak argument considering all the precidents that already apply to both public and non-public space in the name of public health and safety.

I mean, what's up with the building codes? I should be able to build any damn way I please? Or how about those fire code occupancy restrictions? If I'm a business owner, why should I turn people away when there's still room to cram a few more in? And sanitation? If it's not clean enough for you, go somewhere else. How about noise regulations, etc.

The government already regulates a wide variety of behavior on various health, economic or simply nuisance grounds. Smoking is both a health issue and a nuisance.

 

[tranceport]

Who cares. Smoking, smokers, and the smoke smells bad. You look stupid doing it. Keep smoking so you can die faster and hopefully I'll get your cash. Take your smoke filled possesions with you. I don't even want your smoke infested females!

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
I still don't buy it.

seriously?

the smoke is bad for the smoker. why wouldn't it be bad for the person next to them?

The poison is in the dose.

Just because you are exposed to a substance doesn't mean you will be negatively affected if that exposure is minimal. We all need potassium in our system to live. Yet, what is the main ingredient in a "Lethal Injection"? Smokers are affected because they subject themselves to massive amounts of smoke. Second hand smoke, by comparison yields very low, and brief levels of exposure.

Link
Link

The WHO did a very in depth study on this subject about 10 years ago and then promptly buried the results because they didn't jive with the rhetoric they had been spewing. Their own study contradicted them! (And many of the points in your link)

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Extelleron
Why should I have to go to another store or open my own because a few people are killing others at one of them?

What about kids who have parents that smoke? What about kids who's parents are like you?

because this is America. We are (well should be) able to make decisions for ourselvs. IF i want to run a store here smoking is encouraged then great! i should be able to! i am free to be a success or failure!

also going along with that. if you do not want to be around smokers then by all means go to a different bar/store/whatever or start one of your own.

What i do in my private business (long as it is legal. and right now smoking is legal) is up to me.

what about parents that smoke? what about it? again it is a persons right to do what they want.



this is what bothers me about this. people want to ban smoking i just cringe at what is next. fatty foods (oops already happening), running with scissors? riding a motorcycle? hang gliding?

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: KnightBreed

Originally posted by: Extelleron
Wrong. The government can say you can't smoke in that "private business" just as they can say you can't kill in it. It can cause death, and the government must protect us from smokers.

LOL.😀 The Federal Government - our savior!

When the argument becomes this absurd, I feel it time to bow out.

I'm bowing out after this little gem:

Originally posted by: Extelleron
The government has every right to use any amount of force neccessary to protect the majority of citizens.

I can guarandamntee you that he is more than likely up in arms about things such as the Patriot Act, Racial Profiling, Speeding tickets, National ID Cards, etc.

But since it's smoking, the government exercising any amount of power to get rid of it is fine with him.

Patriot Act? 100% support. I am 100% in support of being a safer country and giving more power to the government rather than having everyone's rights protected completely. A small invasion of privacy is worth it for the defense of the nation and prosecution of criminals/terrorists.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: Armitage

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: KnightBreed

Originally posted by: Extelleron
Just because it's private property doesn't mean squat. A supermarket is a public place. Not public property, but the public gathers there.

And remind me how, by SOMEONE ELSE making the decision to smake, "I" am putting myself in a harmful situation? If I'm at a restuarant and people are smoking, I can't make them stop, can I? They are hurting my health, and inconveniencing me. It's the government's job to protect my right to clean air, not the smoker's right to kill themselves and try to take others with them.

A private establishment can descriminate for any reason, other than race, religion, or creed. A business owner refuse you service because you are too fat, too short, too stupid, don't smoke, or any of a multitude of reasons.

A restaurant is not "public". Unless, of course, it was built and paid for by taxpayers - in which case you can complain all you want. But since you don't own the joint, you shouldn't have a say in how it is run.

Wrong. The government can say you can't smoke in that "private business" just as they can say you can't kill in it. It can cause death, and the government must protect us from smokers.

You are a fool. That's the whole issue at hand; the government violating the notion of private property rights.

That's a pretty weak argument considering all the precidents that already apply to both public and non-public space in the name of public health and safety.

I mean, what's up with the building codes? I should be able to build any damn way I please? Or how about those fire code occupancy restrictions? If I'm a business owner, why should I turn people away when there's still room to cram a few more in? And sanitation? If it's not clean enough for you, go somewhere else.

Since you're not Extelleron, I'll take the time to reply to you.

If you look at another post of mine is this thread, you can clearly see where I address this:

And yes, I know you're about to go into the fact that government regulates laws to protect the safety of the customers. But they only will do this when the customer cannot reasonably protect their own safety if they otherwise weren't in place (for example, sanitation laws).

Look at the laws that the regulatory agencies put in place regarding private businesses and they are only their to protect the customers and the employees from actions taken by the business that would jeopardize their safety in a way they cannot know about or avoid.

Making sure a building is built to code is a hell of a lot different than a customer being notified upon entering the premises that smoking is allowed and they're actively subjecting their bodies to whatever risk they think second-hand smoke proposes.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Extelleron
Why should I have to go to another store or open my own because a few people are killing others at one of them?

What about kids who have parents that smoke? What about kids who's parents are like you?

because this is America. We are (well should be) able to make decisions for ourselvs. IF i want to run a store here smoking is encouraged then great! i should be able to! i am free to be a success or failure!

also going along with that. if you do not want to be around smokers then by all means go to a different bar/store/whatever or start one of your own.

What i do in my private business (long as it is legal. and right now smoking is legal) is up to me.

what about parents that smoke? what about it? again it is a persons right to do what they want.



this is what bothers me about this. people want to ban smoking i just cringe at what is next. fatty foods (oops already happening), running with scissors? riding a motorcycle? hang gliding?

It is not a person's right to "do what they want." You cannot kill, or steal, why should you be able to smoke when it hurts others?

And once again, what about children that are unwillingly exposed to smoke from their parents/others, and could get hurt because of it?

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: Extelleron
Why should I have to deal with smokers?
Why should I have to deal with smokers on the street?
Why should I have to deal with smokers at the store?
Why should I have to deal with smokers at a restaurant?
Why should I have to deal with smokers at the bowling alley?
Why should I have to deal with smokers in public buildings?
Why should kids have no choice but to breathe in smoke every day, when they don't have a choice?

And yet you're just fine with motor vehicle exhaust?

So now they're bringing in motor vehicles into the stores, the restaurants, and the public areas?

When you encounter motor vehicle exhaust fumes, you're in your car, not right next to the person smoking.

:laugh:
That's a good one.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: Extelleron
Why should I have to deal with smokers?
Why should I have to deal with smokers on the street?
Why should I have to deal with smokers at the store?
Why should I have to deal with smokers at a restaurant?
Why should I have to deal with smokers at the bowling alley?
Why should I have to deal with smokers in public buildings?
Why should kids have no choice but to breathe in smoke every day, when they don't have a choice?

And yet you're just fine with motor vehicle exhaust?

So now they're bringing in motor vehicles into the stores, the restaurants, and the public areas?

When you encounter motor vehicle exhaust fumes, you're in your car, not right next to the person smoking.

:laugh:
That's a good one.

Nobody walks these days, and we definitely don't have cities like NYC with traffic up the arse and those cars blowing exhaust right into our faces, right?