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Surface Pro 4 and Surface Book

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Commodus said:
Because a 1.7-pound, 0.33-inch tablet is still pretty heavy, even at 12 inches. Ideally, it'd be light enough that you could carry it around almost without thinking. Microsoft is doing a good job all told, it's just going to be bulkier than, say, a 1.5-pound iPad Pro.
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but it's way lighter and smaller than a 2.38 pound, .68" MacBookAir w/ an 11.6" screen.
 
Ns1 said:
but it's way lighter and smaller than a 2.38 pound, .68" MacBookAir w/ an 11.6" screen.
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That and depending on weight distribution it could feel lighter than it is. 1.7lbs really isn't that much for a larger convertible tablet or a laptop.
 
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Still trying to segregate products with CPU speed and amount of RAM. I refuse to support such tactics.
 
cliftonite said:
How are the Surface Pro/Book not full blown laptops? And what about them makes them not a polished solution?
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Well for someone who wants a true laptop, a Surface Pro isn't going to do the trick. Nor is a Chromebook or an iPad Pro. I agree the Surface Pro comes the closest, but the Surface Book or any other Ultrabook probably fits the bill better.

I think my point was that at $899, you're competing against the iPad Pro, and while the iPad Pro isn't exactly as nice, it's also $100 cheaper. We've seen what price can do to consumers, and so what I'm saying is that instead of trying to eek out a bit more profit, they should've just competed at $799 and blown the iPad competition right out of the water.

I'm not trying to say this is a bad product--it's definitely very good, but I find myself in that position where a regular Surface is around my budget level and suits my needs for a portable tablet already. If I want anything more powerful, I might as well go for a full laptop.

And while I think the Surface Pro can challenge the Macbook Air for price, I personally would just pay a little more for a solid laptop. The lappability of a Surface Pro is still questionable. I was sitting on a flight with a guy with a SP3 the other day and while it looked cool, I could see he was struggling to find the most comfortable position. I had a larger 13" Ultrabook, but at any point in time I could say screw this idiotic tray table with the guy in front of me reclining, I'm just going to put my laptop on my lap and use it. He didn't have that option. The kickstand makes it such that you also need your device to sit on something not only at the base. In that respect the new Pixel C is pretty cool.

I still find the Surface Pro just a very niche device that's all.
 
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DLeRium said:
Well for someone who wants a true laptop, a Surface Pro isn't going to do the trick. Nor is a Chromebook or an iPad Pro. I agree the Surface Pro comes the closest, but the Surface Book or any other Ultrabook probably fits the bill better.

I think my point was that at $899, you're competing against the iPad Pro, and while the iPad Pro isn't exactly as nice, it's also $100 cheaper. We've seen what price can do to consumers, and so what I'm saying is that instead of trying to eek out a bit more profit, they should've just competed at $799 and blown the iPad competition right out of the water.

I'm not trying to say this is a bad product--it's definitely very good, but I find myself in that position where a regular Surface is around my budget level and suits my needs for a portable tablet already. If I want anything more powerful, I might as well go for a full laptop.

And while I think the Surface Pro can challenge the Macbook Air for price, I personally would just pay a little more for a solid laptop. The lappability of a Surface Pro is still questionable. I was sitting on a flight with a guy with a SP3 the other day and while it looked cool, I could see he was struggling to find the most comfortable position. I had a larger 13" Ultrabook, but at any point in time I could say screw this idiotic tray table with the guy in front of me reclining, I'm just going to put my laptop on my lap and use it. He didn't have that option. The kickstand makes it such that you also need your device to sit on something not only at the base. In that respect the new Pixel C is pretty cool.

I still find the Surface Pro just a very niche device that's all.
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How exactly do you know that the Surface isn't a laptop replacement? There are plenty of people in my group that use it as a laptop without any issues. The Surface at $899 comes with a pen and 128GB of storage. The iPad at 799 has no pen and a joke of 32GB.
 
I am having a Déjà vu of this. History repeats itself..

HP_Tablet_PC_running_Windows_XP_%28Tablet_PC_edition%29_%282006%29.jpg
 
cliftonite said:
How exactly do you know that the Surface isn't a laptop replacement? There are plenty of people in my group that use it as a laptop without any issues. The Surface at $899 comes with a pen and 128GB of storage. The iPad at 799 has no pen and a joke of 32GB.
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The iPad Pro's OS and apps also won't chew up as much space... and from early benchmarks, it sounds like the A9X may outperform the Core m3 in some areas. That doesn't mean it's a better tablet overall (no one outside of Apple or Microsoft has used those devices for an extended period), just that it's not a clear-cut situation.

Besides, remember how Bill Gates was convinced the iPad would fail because it didn't have a pen and keyboard? Yeah. Pens are nice for some creative types, but not for most of them.
 
DLeRium said:
Well for someone who wants a true laptop, a Surface Pro isn't going to do the trick. Nor is a Chromebook or an iPad Pro. I agree the Surface Pro comes the closest, but the Surface Book or any other Ultrabook probably fits the bill better.
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I've been using the SP2 as a laptop replacement since the SP2 came out.
 
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I'm interested in the new surface type cover... with glass top trackpad... that might do the trick for me... I wouldn't get the SP4, but am considering the Surfacebook (really? that's not a rip off at all) due to it's Nvidia GPU... if it means I can play my starcraft 2.... at medium settings and maintain 60 FPS, i'm in! but @3k, that might be pushing the envelope... might have to lower the settings to low..
 
I'm actually kind of glad the SP4 is evolutionary. My SP3 has become my always everywhere go to device. The SP4 looks like a great device for anyone who wants a tablet(laptop) but means I don't feel that I'm missing too much by not upgrading.
 
DLeRium said:
Well for someone who wants a true laptop, a Surface Pro isn't going to do the trick. Nor is a Chromebook or an iPad Pro. I agree the Surface Pro comes the closest, but the Surface Book or any other Ultrabook probably fits the bill better.

I think my point was that at $899, you're competing against the iPad Pro, and while the iPad Pro isn't exactly as nice, it's also $100 cheaper. We've seen what price can do to consumers, and so what I'm saying is that instead of trying to eek out a bit more profit, they should've just competed at $799 and blown the iPad competition right out of the water.

I'm not trying to say this is a bad product--it's definitely very good, but I find myself in that position where a regular Surface is around my budget level and suits my needs for a portable tablet already. If I want anything more powerful, I might as well go for a full laptop.

And while I think the Surface Pro can challenge the Macbook Air for price, I personally would just pay a little more for a solid laptop. The lappability of a Surface Pro is still questionable. I was sitting on a flight with a guy with a SP3 the other day and while it looked cool, I could see he was struggling to find the most comfortable position. I had a larger 13" Ultrabook, but at any point in time I could say screw this idiotic tray table with the guy in front of me reclining, I'm just going to put my laptop on my lap and use it. He didn't have that option. The kickstand makes it such that you also need your device to sit on something not only at the base. In that respect the new Pixel C is pretty cool.

I still find the Surface Pro just a very niche device that's all.
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You still live in the past where Apple positions itself as luxury brand with premium price tag. Hence you assume Surface should be $100 cheaper than iPad Pro. Very wrong assumption. Fact is, Microsoft created a more luxurious item with a higher price. So if you want the better stuff, you should pay for it.
 
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mmntech said:
Benchmark scores for the Core m3 are all over the map as a result. It is slightly faster than the old Core i3 model, but only some of the time. I think I would spend the extra $100 on the i5.

As for the Surface Book, that accordion hinge on the back is really ugly. Aside from that, I'll have to reserve my opinions until reviews come out. No idea what the details are of its specs.
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I agree on spending the extra $100. IS that the bench for the Skylake m3? I've not seen them, so was curious as to whether you were speaking to Broadwell or Skylake with that.

And the hinge is strange, but I don't mind it. I mind the color much more. I'm sick of light-metal devices. I miss the SP2's dark chassis and the 16 GB Zune HD's. Things like the Nexus 6P and the Macbook Air and the SP3/4 and the Surface Book and the new ASUS laptop, I find them hideous.

DLeRium said:
I get the Surface Pro represents a better solution than the iPad Pro, but at the same time the iPad is selling for $749 only. I kinda wish Microsoft went down to $799 or something. $899 is a bit steep, although better than the SP3 original prices.

Personally I can't see myself spending this much. I want them to release the vanilla Surface 4 now!

And I don't really get all these comparisons with a Macbook Air/Pro. Those are full blown laptops, and if I wanted a laptop I'd probably still go with an MBA/MBP over a Surface Pro 4. The Surface Book also gets expensive once you start adding the features to make it perform well.
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The iPad Pro starts at $799. Then you have to spend $170 on the keyboard and $100 on the Pencil. So, for the full experience (which is still iOS-based, meaning no x86 stuff), you're ACTUALLY starting at $1,070 for 32 GB of storage. The Surface Pro 4's base model (m3, 128 GB) is $900, and with the Type Cover, you're at $1,030. That's to get times the iPad's storage (admittedly, much eaten by the OS and bigger applications), USB support, microSD support, an iris scanner, and a more-powerful pen (eraser, changeable tips, etc.). Even the i5 model and a keyboard would only be $60 more than the iPad Pro.

I'm the same though, I couldn't bring myself to drop $1,000+ on such a thing. I use a desktop exclusively now, and I don't really have gaps in computing availability. $1,000+ for a secondary (arguably tertiary, with my phone secondary) device I'd barely use is just bad money management.

You can say you'd take a Macbook Air, but you're also not everyone, of course. It's smaller, not exactly cheaper, and you don't get the pen support. I agree that the laptop functionality is occasionally overblown with the SP4, but I'd still take it over a MBA all day (but I hate Apple).

Red Storm said:
I was really hoping the Pro 4 would get MUCH thinner, not just a little thinner.
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As Panos Panay said during the event, they couldn't do it without taking the USB 3.0 port from the thing. The Surface Book's USB ports are in its dock, so that tablet doesn't have the ports, and it's down to 7.7 mm. So, they could probably have gotten it to 8.0 mm or less (not sure on exactly 7.7 with the smaller chassis with the SP4), but they're already at the line between form and function.

GTRagnarok said:
Is the keyboard the same on the lower end variants, just without the Nvidia GPU?
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I'd definitely say it is. Why bother making a second keyboard? It'd throw off the weight balancing. If they're not going to give you the discrete GPU, it'd be nice if they added a battery to balance the weight.
 
openwheel said:
Best tech event this year. One word: Fedora.

Seriously they did a good job this year.
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Panos does a good job of presenting but when you're hawking devices like Hololens, Surface 4, and the Surface Book you probably don't have to work very hard to get me to start drooling.
 
The Core M3 might actually be pretty fast. It's actually cooled so it should stay at 2.2Ghz most of the time if not all.
 
Skurge said:
The Core M3 might actually be pretty fast. It's actually cooled so it should stay at 2.2Ghz most of the time if not all.
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Then TDP will become an issue. I've demoed a Core M Broadwell based 2-In-1 from HP with active cooling. While temps were great, the TDP limit really hampered it while gaming.
 
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