Surface Pro 3 thread - Info, thoughts, opinions

[Imp]

Here is my example of comparison.

Excuse my horrible writing.

Jackpot! Now I can write my ransom letter.

 

[jalyst]

But it's not nearly as good as the Surface Pro 1. The lines are not quite as smooth and the cursor seems more imprecise. I tried calibrating it, but it's still the same. Maybe I got a bad tablet. Because the reviewers had me expecting it would be as good as the SP1/SP2 WRT handwriting. Just curious, has anyone else had trouble with handwriting on the SP3?

Off of OneNote alone, my lines are definitely thinner - due to the shallower, needed pressure difference. My handwriting, and strokes aren't as smooth, but not exaggeratedly so, only by a tiny bit. It seems a bit like a comparison to cutting a piece of wood freeform on a bandsaw with a rough blade, versus running a piece of wood with a fence guide at a proper tooth count, for making smooth cuts - (the smooth cut being the Wacom, and the rough blade being N-Trig) - but that is going off topic-ish. But yes, you aren't the only one noticing that the Wacom implementations is a bit more smoother. But it shouldn't be drastically different. Calibration is relatively spot on for me and I have no problem with the cursor to pen tip matchup.

Didn't Gabe mention that there's updates coming which should improve this area?

I changed the pen type to "medium" instead of "thin" in onenote and it made a world of difference.

Yeah, maybe that changes things a bit for the other owners here?

Wacom looks thicker and more like what you'd expect on a computer screen (smoother, more marker-like) while the Ntrig looks like it was written with a real pen imo.

Fair point....

 

[jalyst]

I thought they hinted of it having a thunderbolt port that was integrated into the power connector during their AMA.
http://www.wpcentral.com/surface-pro-3-ama-reddit-panos-panay

Nah they officially denounced that later, TB's def. not on the SP3 itself, sadly... :-(
There's still a very remote chance that there's TB integrated into the dock (actual controller there), using some proprietary/franken TB implementation via the power-port that avoids licensing costs etc, but that's pretty unlikely IMO.

really wish i could make an egpu for this....

Even if one does have a TB interface, eGPU's no "walk in the park" with the DIY approach, it's quite buggy/unreliable/unoptimal, & if you go the appliance route it's exorbitantly priced & not much better. Still, I do hope Microsoft gets serious about TB (or a proprietary implementation) by the time SP4 rolls around.

Makes sense. Multiplied out 3:2 is 15:10.

It's roughly in-between what iOS & Android commonly use, iOS optimised stuff often looks horrid on Android & vice-versa, with the SP3 it'll look 'okay' for both.

 

[wasabiman123]

Yeah weird that they did some custom thing there instead of adopting TB.
I'm sure they have their reasons...right?

 

[jalyst]

As explained, if TB really has been implemented the way I suggested (which I doubt), one of the main reasons for doing it that way, would be to avoid (or greatly mitigate) licensing costs.

 

[sm625]

I just dont understand the thinking behind the display. The device isntpowerful enough to drive anything meaningful at that resolution, ie a game. And since its not 1080p, the moment you plug into your desk, which probably is 1080p, then windows is going to totally butcher your desktop and open windows, the way it always does when you change resolution. It just makes no sense to push up costs, reduce battery life, and reduce its already abysmal gaming performance by going with a > 1080p screen.

What the product does have going for it is its blazing fast javascript and general web performance. But the thing is, that's all this is really good for, and even with the underclocked Y part, it would still be great at that. So why does the Y version still come with a fan? Does that fan run at all or is it almost always off? Why didnt anand review that model? Since that is the only model that actually makes sense.

 

[EightySix Four]

I just dont understand the thinking behind the display. The device isntpowerful enough to drive anything meaningful at that resolution, ie a game. And since its not 1080p, the moment you plug into your desk, which probably is 1080p, then windows is going to totally butcher your desktop and open windows, the way it always does when you change resolution. It just makes no sense to push up costs, reduce battery life, and reduce its already abysmal gaming performance by going with a > 1080p screen.

I played Civ V for a few hours at 2160x1440 the other day, so yeah, you can make use of it.

 

[Ravynmagi]

I just dont understand the thinking behind the display. The device isntpowerful enough to drive anything meaningful at that resolution, ie a game. And since its not 1080p, the moment you plug into your desk, which probably is 1080p, then windows is going to totally butcher your desktop and open windows, the way it always does when you change resolution. It just makes no sense to push up costs, reduce battery life, and reduce its already abysmal gaming performance by going with a > 1080p screen.

It's nice having the high DPI when using it as a tablet and surfing the web or running Windows 8 apps. 1080p on a 12.5 inch screen held in the hands will start showing pixels and wouldn't be as sharp. I believe the high DPI is more for the tablet experience than the laptop experience. Granted the laptop experience does suffer some what from needing DPI scaling which sucks on many apps, sadly including Chrome and even Microsoft's own Skype for Desktop.

 

[EightySix Four]

It's nice having the high DPI when using it as a tablet and surfing the web or running Windows 8 apps. 1080p on a 12.5 inch screen held in the hands will start showing pixels and wouldn't be as sharp. I believe the high DPI is more for the tablet experience than the laptop experience. Granted the laptop experience does suffer some what from needing DPI scaling which sucks on many apps, sadly including Chrome and even Microsoft's own Skype for Desktop.

I'm willing to bet that it was also to improve the handwriting experience and make the ink look better.

 

[InfiniteLurker]

Also, can you imagine the field day the Microsoft-haters would have (above and beyond the one they're already trying to have) if they had released it at only 1080p? "Retina blah blah blah, ppi blah blah blah. M$ blah blah blah"

 

[Ravynmagi]

Curious if this is normal. When I close the cover, it turns off the display (good), but when I open the cover, the display does not come on. I thought Surface tablets would turn on when the cover was opened?

 

[tsupersonic]

Curious if this is normal. When I close the cover, it turns off the display (good), but when I open the cover, the display does not come on. I thought Surface tablets would turn on when the cover was opened?

Nope, my Surface Pro 2 with Type Cover 2 has never turned the device on when opening the cover/keyboard. When I closed it, it would sleep, just as you describe. It's unfortunate that it doesn't work when you open the cover, like a traditional laptop or tablet (with smart/magnet cover). /insert joke about Surface Pro line not being like a tablet or laptop heh.

 

[Imaginer]

Nope, my Surface Pro 2 with Type Cover 2 has never turned the device on when opening the cover/keyboard. When I closed it, it would sleep, just as you describe. It's unfortunate that it doesn't work when you open the cover, like a traditional laptop or tablet (with smart/magnet cover). /insert joke about Surface Pro line not being like a tablet or laptop heh.

That is correct. However, with the latest updates (though it could have been a bit longer back) hitting the Windows bezel icon would wake the device along with either a tap of the power button, and now the button at the end of the pen with the Surface Pro 3.

Or if you have a USB peripheral receiver, such as a wireless mouse that is turned on, any button press or scrolling with the mouse would wake the device REGARDLESS of the cover covering the screen or not. In case of such, I turn off my trackball before covering my Pro 2, because if I don't, the device would be on when I stow the two devices, thus consuming power in storage.

 

[Ravynmagi]

I'm convinced the Windows button on the bezel was masterfully engineered, so as to never actually work with you intentional touch it and only work with it's accidentally touched.

I'm still working on my fake "accidental" touch to trick the Surface into thinking I don't really want it to come on when I really do. So far I have not yet mastered this sneak attack.

 

[jalyst]

*BUMP* to the Qns/points in my 2 posts, mainly the Qns:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=36474782#post36474782
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=36474790#post36474790

Cheers.

I'm still working on my fake "accidental" touch to trick the Surface into thinking I don't really want it to come on when I really do. So far I have not yet mastered this sneak attack.

Ehehehe, "Gold!"

 

[EightySix Four]

*BUMP* to the Qns/points in my 2 posts, mainly the Qns:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=36474782#post36474782
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=36474790#post36474790

Didn't Gabe mention that there's updates coming which should improve this area?

This question? There was an update which installed when I first opened it which disables the Windows button on the front of the screen. Not sure of the other improvements.

 

[jalyst]

Primarily, there's at east one other -I think, the rest are just points people can address if they care, but no biggy either way.

Yes but aside from that update, IIRC it was mentioned in Gabe's articles that there's others coming which address the issue(s) raised in Ravynmagi & Imaginer's posts (which I quoted).

Bed time, goodnight.

 

[Ravynmagi]

The wifi on this seems to be a complete joke. I've been seeing a lot of complaints, but I figured it should at least be good enough to stream HD videos. But apparently not. Netflix, YouTube, and Crunchyroll buffer a lot, and Crackle just keeps dropping me down to SD resolution. Seems like working wifi drivers would be something they should have ready at launch for a tablet.

 

[Nebor]

The wifi on this seems to be a complete joke. I've been seeing a lot of complaints, but I figured it should at least be good enough to stream HD videos. But apparently not. Netflix, YouTube, and Crunchyroll buffer a lot, and Crackle just keeps dropping me down to SD resolution. Seems like working wifi drivers would be something they should have ready at launch for a tablet.

Nah working wifi drivers took about 2-3 months on the SP1 and SP2.

 

[gorobei]

while the internals seem quite nice and probably everything i would ask for, the ntrig digitizer kinda spoils it. MS seem to have switched from wacom just to reduce the overall thickness of pro3. any pen that takes 1AAAA + 2 watch batteries is just too much added fail points compared to a passive solution like a wacom.

 

[EightySix Four]

while the internals seem quite nice and probably everything i would ask for, the ntrig digitizer kinda spoils it. MS seem to have switched from wacom just to reduce the overall thickness of pro3. any pen that takes 1AAAA + 2 watch batteries is just too much added fail points compared to a passive solution like a wacom.

Just out of curiosity, how does $.50 worth of batteries so strongly influence you on a $1300+ purchase?

 

[jalyst]

The wifi on this seems to be a complete joke. I've been seeing a lot of complaints, but I figured it should at least be good enough to stream HD videos. But apparently not. Netflix, YouTube, and Crunchyroll buffer a lot, and Crackle just keeps dropping me down to SD resolution. Seems like working wifi drivers would be something they should have ready at launch for a tablet.

Related discussion on that here...
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=2262377&p=49#r976
Hopefully it is resolved, time will tell.

 

[gorobei]

Just out of curiosity, how does $.50 worth of batteries so strongly influence you on a $1300+ purchase?

i use my convertable laptop for art and content creation. basic battery life becomes an issue when working for extended periods. having to worry about when the pen fails or worse having it fail at an inopportune time means either a down period as i acquire new batteries or having to constantly source a stockpile and wondering if they are too old.

given that the passive wacom version eliminates this issue at the cost of 1 mm in thickness, i would rather have the convenience of the simpler solution than the bragging rights for thinness which is only of esthetic value.

 

[Imaginer]

i use my convertable laptop for art and content creation. basic battery life becomes an issue when working for extended periods. having to worry about when the pen fails or worse having it fail at an inopportune time means either a down period as i acquire new batteries or having to constantly source a stockpile and wondering if they are too old.

given that the passive wacom version eliminates this issue at the cost of 1 mm in thickness, i would rather have the convenience of the simpler solution than the bragging rights for thinness which is only of esthetic value.

If anything, I be worried about the pen weight in holding, sketching, and drawing over time with the heft rather than the battery - which in other extrapolation, my Logitech Wireless Trackball lasts a good over 6 months before even needing a change. Over time in drawing, the pencil like weight helps in holding.

With the Wacom pens, having no battery means light as I would have a pencil. With the Pro 3's pen, it is not and doesn't have two pressure ends (writing/erasing). One of the side buttons is for erasing, but it just seems a bit off, and grip has to be already adjusted on top of a heavier writing instrument in comparison.

Another, is that even if N-Trig has come a bit of ways, Wacom just seems a bit smoother, no matter how I do things, with OneNote not having some trailing strokes.

I can say this out of a benefit of the thinner screen and parallax reduction, Panos was right on that and it proved to be nicer. Even if Wacom gets Tablet PC pen digitizers to have tilt and pen twist recognition to adjust the tip to be perceived to be with the cursor, instead of off - calculations may increase processing - thus adding computational time - thus adding battery on top of an entire screen of an active display (versus the smaller power footprint of the battery pen). Edge screen drift isn't as exaggerated as the Wacom, but still drifts in the corners if one looks carefully.

I am torn between the two solutions. N-Trig seems to have good potential - especially in the Surface Pro 3, if only a second pen comes along that addresses a pressure erase end and tilt recognition. That or Wacom gets their head in gear and have a quality device (screen is better on the Pros than the Cintiq Companions for one, cover system and charging being another) like the Surface Pro 2, but brings their A-game in full Cintiq capability at the same price points if not at an exuberant price levels (which is the reason why I jumped on the Pros to begin with). Or at the very least, improve their Tablet PC digitizers to the level of Intuos Pro capabilities.

One other note with the Surface Pro 3's pen, it still is able to stick to the side where the power connector is, but also sticks and attaches as easy as the improved power connector.

 

[gorobei]

I am torn between the two solutions. N-Trig seems to have good potential - especially in the Surface Pro 3, if only a second pen comes along that addresses a pressure erase end and tilt recognition. That or Wacom gets their head in gear and have a quality device (screen is better on the Pros than the Cintiq Companions for one, cover system and charging being another) like the Surface Pro 2, but brings their A-game in full Cintiq capability at the same price points if not at an exuberant price levels (which is the reason why I jumped on the Pros to begin with). Or at the very least, improve their Tablet PC digitizers to the level of Intuos Pro capabilities.

wacom will never allow their full sensing tech to be licensed in the near term as it would cut into the profits of the cintiq line. they are still stuck in the hardware vendor mentality as long as the margins are still exorbitant. it would take wacom digitizers as a defacto standard on all tablets (like synaptic touchpads on notebooks) for the sales numbers to shift enough to get them out of hardware and into licensing.