Supra and MR2 making a comeback

[brainhulk]

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/08/09/new-rear-wheel-drive-toyota-sports-cars/

yes pls

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

Mr2 would have to be turbo, mid-engine and way more powerful than the frs. My pants are wet with excitement... wet in a good way

 

[Pariah]

"preparing to bring two new rear-drive cars to market that would slot above and below the Scion-badged FR-S."

Below the FR-S? How much smaller can you make a car than the FR-S? Is it going to be powered by a lawnmower engine?

 

[satyajitmenon]

"preparing to bring two new rear-drive cars to market that would slot above and below the Scion-badged FR-S."

Below the FR-S? How much smaller can you make a car than the FR-S? Is it going to be powered by a lawnmower engine?

Umm, Miata sized?

 

[Pariah]

Umm, Miata sized?

Those two are not different in size enough to be 2 different categories. If you've seen an FR-S in person, they are tiny as hell. The only difference between it and the Miata, is the useless backseats that the FRS has. Toyota should remove the back seats and turn that into a storage area/extended trunk space to make the car more useful.

To get much smaller, you would have to move into Lotus Elise/Smart range which isn't appealing at all for anything but a dedicated autocross vehicle.

 

[manimal]

a two seat spyder and a boosted upscale model like a modern supra would completely change the brand and bring many people back to toyota.

In response to getting smaller than a FRS a two seater would be smaller, Remember something small and sporty would sell well internationally as well so while a GT86 variant may look small to you to you have never driven in europe or asia or anywhere else in the world for that matter. To the rest of the world something smaller than a frs with RWD and toyota engineering sounds like an awesome idea.

 

[Imported]

Those two are not different in size enough to be 2 different categories. If you've seen an FR-S in person, they are tiny as hell. The only difference between it and the Miata, is the useless backseats that the FRS has. Toyota should remove the back seats and turn that into a storage area/extended trunk space to make the car more useful.

To get much smaller, you would have to move into Lotus Elise/Smart range which isn't appealing at all for anything but a dedicated autocross vehicle.

Agreed. Took one for a test drive with a buddy of mine, and the sales guy couldn't fit in the back.. lol

 

[satyajitmenon]

To get much smaller, you would have to move into Lotus Elise/Smart range which isn't appealing at all for anything but a dedicated autocross vehicle.

I fail to see how that's a bad thing.

 

[XavierMace]

Toyota should remove the back seats and turn that into a storage area/extended trunk space to make the car more useful.

Do the rear seats not fold down on the FRS like they do on the BRZ?

 

[Imported]

Do the rear seats not fold down on the FRS like they do on the BRZ?

They do, but why even have the option. The backseat is completely useless. If I were to get a BRZ/FRS, I'd probably remove them.

 

[manimal]

They do, but why even have the option. The backseat is completely useless. If I were to get a BRZ/FRS, I'd probably remove them.

Would be cool to put a shelf back there. I took the seats out of my s13 and the hatch makes it HUUUUGE

 

[Moonrise]

The link says they're actually bringing back the Celica (or more likely the Celica)? That's a bit saddening if they do choose that instead of the Supra badge, especially if it is supposed to be a higher performance RWD sports car.

 

[Meghan54]

I fail to see how that's a bad thing.

It is if you want to sell more than a few thousand per year. Be nice, but I don't think Toyota is in the market Lotus runs in, very low production numbers per model.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Yeah seems a bit odd for them to be pushing for something below the FRS/BRZ. But then it could be years before this thing hits the market and so those might get updates by then, which might differentiate them a bit more.

I assume they must be targeting what they did with the MR-2 Spyder, which it'd be nice if they push for more as that was underwhelming, especially coming from the older MR2s.

The link says they're actually bringing back the Celica (or more likely the Celica)? That's a bit saddening if they do choose that instead of the Supra badge, especially if it is supposed to be a higher performance RWD sports car.

No it doesn't it says the person asking specifically mentioned the Celica and MR2 but the Toyota guy refused to comment on names.

They've allegedly been working on a new Supra for years and years. It the RX-7, NSX, and seems like another fabled Japanese sports car have been rumored to be in development off and on for several years now. Seems like every few months a new rumor comes out, and it cycles through them being hybrids, being high end (like GT-R level), or being killed off or certain other more specific ones (the NSX seemed to alternate between being mid engined and front engined, and the RX-7 the rumors alternate about rotary engine).

 

[tweakmonkey]

To get much smaller, you would have to move into Lotus Elise/Smart range which isn't appealing at all for anything but a dedicated autocross vehicle.

Like every MR2 they ever made?

I had a Spyder and it was a super fun car. Amazing handling, a little more power wouldve been nice though. The best thing about that car is it weighed 2200 lbs.

 

[Pariah]

Like every MR2 they ever made?

The 2nd gen MR2 (There's a 4 million post thread by JLee on the front page here if you need a refresher) was less than 3 inches shorter than the FR-S. So no, not like every MR2 ever made.

 

[tweakmonkey]

Ok so the mid generation was only a little shorter height, lighter, narrower and shorter length but it was always a small car. The other two mr2 were much smaller. And if you're getting rid of 2 seats and not requiring the front space of the FR-S it makes sense to make it smaller. Smaller is good, that's all I'm saying there's enough mid and big cars for everyone but hardly any small sports cars these days, and nothing beats lightweight for handling, braking etc. I predict it'll have a boring engine though ;(

 

[Dr. Detroit]

a two seat spyder and a boosted upscale model like a modern supra would completely change the brand and bring many people back to toyota.

These are both niche vehicles - The MR2 was lucky to sell 5,000 units a year and the Supra even less.

I really don't believe these cars are coming back as its not like the FRS & BRZ are flying off the lots (FRS has sold 11,635 units in 2013 through July)(BRZ 4,774)(Miata 3,812)

If the Supra is expected to be a GT-R competitor (GT-R sales through 7 months of 2013 - 753 units)

Toyota needs to get a hatchback out and make a hot hatch and do something with the Scion brand, a disaster in marketing. The FRS should be rebadged immediately and sold as a Celica. Bringing out two sports cars will no reinvigorate the "sporty" nature of Toyotas and bring people flocking to the showroom.

I must wonder how many people walk into a Scion dealer shopping a FRS and walk out with a TC (10,801 units sold in first 7-months)

 

[pauldun170]

Supra successor = 6 figure BMW engine GTR competitor?
Since I don't care about 6 figure+ cars any more, especially automatic only 6figure cars, no care. Wouldn't care if it could do the nerdandburger in 5 minutes flat and score perfect in Olympic figure skating.

First gen MR2 = Awesome
Second Gen MR2 = Awesome
Third Gen Mr2 = That car everyone said was nice before buying a Miata instead

Curious about the "Mr2" successor.
Be awesome if they built something to fill in the niche market that Lotus gave up when they had to stop importing the Elise\exige.

 

[jlee]

These are both niche vehicles - The MR2 was lucky to sell 5,000 units a year and the Supra even less.

I really don't believe these cars are coming back as its not like the FRS & BRZ are flying off the lots (FRS has sold 11,635 units in 2013 through July)(BRZ 4,774)(Miata 3,812)

If the Supra is expected to be a GT-R competitor (GT-R sales through 7 months of 2013 - 753 units)

Toyota needs to get a hatchback out and make a hot hatch and do something with the Scion brand, a disaster in marketing. The FRS should be rebadged immediately and sold as a Celica. Bringing out two sports cars will no reinvigorate the "sporty" nature of Toyotas and bring people flocking to the showroom.

I must wonder how many people walk into a Scion dealer shopping a FRS and walk out with a TC (10,801 units sold in first 7-months)

eh?

http://www.mr2turbo.info/sales/

Unless you're referring to the Spyder, then yeah - it didn't do so well:
2000: 7,233
2001: 6,254
2002: 4,705
2003: 2,934
2004: 2,621
2005: 780

The early years of the Mk2 sold pretty well, though.

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

Ok. I predict it'll have a boring engine though ;(

That can always be adjusted.

 

[ballmode]

More sporty cars can't be bad. If any of the big three from Japan can do it now in this economic climate it really can only be them. Honda isn't willing to take chances except for Halo cars, and Nissan will only make it according to profitability which is causing confusion and delays with the next GTR and Z

 

[Throckmorton]

Sure good idea, sell two different cheap sports cars that cannibalize sales from each other, and then cancel them both when they're not profitable.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Wow, how the eff did they sell over 35,000 MR2s in '85?

These are both niche vehicles - The MR2 was lucky to sell 5,000 units a year and the Supra even less.

I really don't believe these cars are coming back as its not like the FRS & BRZ are flying off the lots (FRS has sold 11,635 units in 2013 through July)(BRZ 4,774)(Miata 3,812)

If the Supra is expected to be a GT-R competitor (GT-R sales through 7 months of 2013 - 753 units)

Toyota needs to get a hatchback out and make a hot hatch and do something with the Scion brand, a disaster in marketing. The FRS should be rebadged immediately and sold as a Celica. Bringing out two sports cars will no reinvigorate the "sporty" nature of Toyotas and bring people flocking to the showroom.

I must wonder how many people walk into a Scion dealer shopping a FRS and walk out with a TC (10,801 units sold in first 7-months)

Yeah I think that's one of the big concerns, the market for small sports cars just isn't that high. In the US, unless they're a Camaro, Mustang, or Vette they just aren't going to have high sales numbers, which makes the development costs hard to make back.

But that's why I can't figure out why they would go the route Toyota/Subaru did, where they basically designed exactly this car, instead of a platform that has some versatility.

Really, I can't figure out why someone hasn't tried to build basically a budget 3 Series lineup (where you've got a single RWD platform, but then you could have a coupe, a sedan, a hatch, and a wagon styles from that). Aim for decently light weight (2700-3300lbs depending on configuration, coupe would be on the low end the wagon on the upper end, with the sedan and hatch in between).

I think a company could do really well if they came up with a small lightweight RWD setup, then build 3-4 vehicles from that. A coupe/convertible, a hot hatch, and then a sedan and maybe a wagon (or make it a sportback sedan). Maybe limit the powertrain options (just make them solid and not suck). Something like a 175-200hp base engine and offer a 250-300hp optional (probably turbo) engine. Give it two transmission options (a non crap manual and a a dual clutch unit). As long as they didn't totally fubar it with styling or pricing (aim for $20-30K?) issues then I think they could push a lot of units. They'd stand out big time in the different categories too (they'd have a solid coupe, and then their sedan, hatch, and wagon would all really stand out from the competition).

If Hyundai/Kia took the Veloster, Optima, and Genesis Coupe and made them the same platform. Or if Ford changed the Focus to RWD and added a coupe (and brought the coupe hatch back in the US), they could expand the Fiesta a bit to take up the low end FWD. I'm sure GM could find somewhere to slot this in. It could be the entire focus of the Scion brand. Or Mazda could shoot off the Speed 3, add an RX-8 style coupe.

 

[hans007]

i somehow can't see them bringing the mr2 back.

a mid engine chassis would be a basically bespoke platform as nothing else would use it. it'd likely cost more than a FR-S and sell way less because it'd be even less practical / more niche and have smaller economies of scale.

i'd guess if they had to make an mr-2 type car now it'd be $30k at least and the market would be very small if they had to start from scratch. maybe they should just buy lotus given they already have a partnership and bring back the elise platform but using less expensive materials than a full aluminum tub.