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Supply side economics is working in Kansas!

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shira said:
Ha ha ha, gotta love Brownback's spin:



So the state LOSES a net total of 1,000 small businesses in the year since the tax cuts were enacted, yet Brownback is bragging about small business creation.
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What I had read somewhere was that those "new small businesses" Brownback is trumpeting are mostly existing businesses reclassifying themselves to get in on the tax dodge.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/14/opinion/kansas-ruinous-tax-cuts.html?_r=0

“Our new pro-growth tax policy will be like a shot of adrenaline into the heart of the Kansas economy,” he wrote in 2012. “It will pave the way to the creation of tens of thousands of new jobs, bring tens of thousands of people to Kansas, and help make our state the best place in America to start and grow a small business.”
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The 2012 cuts were among the largest ever enacted by a state, reducing the top tax bracket by 25 percent and eliminating all taxes on business profits that are reported on individual income returns. (No other state has ever eliminated all taxes on these pass-through businesses.) The cuts were arrogantly promoted by Mr. Brownback with the same disproven theory that Republicans have employed for decades: There will be no loss of revenue because of all the economic growth!
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But the growth didn’t show up. Kansas, in fact, was one of only five states to lose employment over the last six months, while the rest of the country was improving. It has been below the national average in job gains for the three and half years Mr. Brownback has been in office. Average earnings in the state are down since 2012, and so is net growth in the number of registered businesses.

With less money to spend, Kansas is forced to chop away at its only hope for real economic expansion: investment in public schools and colleges. While most states began restoring education funding after the recession, Kansas has cut K-12 spending by 2 percent over the last two school years, and higher education by 3 percent since 2012.
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I thought the Repubs learned their lesson for that huge "cut taxes and deregulate" thingie they had going from 2000-2008 when the rich got sooooo much richer while the economy crashed and everybody else got poorer.....hmmmmm....wait....wait a minute.....on second thought, I guess Brownback and his fellow Repubs did learn a lesson, didn't they? 😉
 
tweaker2 said:
I thought the Repubs learned their lesson for that huge "cut taxes and deregulate" thingie they had going from 2000-2008 when the rich got sooooo much richer while the economy crashed and everybody else got poorer.....hmmmmm....wait....wait a minute.....on second thought, I guess Brownback and his fellow Repubs did learn a lesson, didn't they? 😉
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2 things.

The "deregulation" was targeted to help a specific type of activity. That activity was only ever going to benefit the very top.

Looking at the former statement, it seems like it worked.


So in summary, they learned how to make those with money happy.
 
realibrad said:
2 things.

The "deregulation" was targeted to help a specific type of activity. That activity was only ever going to benefit the very top.

Looking at the former statement, it seems like it worked.


So in summary, they learned how to make those with money happy.
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Especially certain Wichita based based group of people which are big Brownback supporters and Obama haters.
 
Matt1970 said:
If higher taxes = jobs growth, why isn't NY with the highest gas & cigarette and second highest income tax in the nation busting at the seams with jobs?
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It's not about the taxes and the fact that Kansas is at the point of diminishing returns, it the fact that Kansas is now cutting services that business like. They like an educated workforce, they like a healthy workforce, etc (now I know they don't want to pay for it), they like nice, new infrastructure....easy to get stuff in and out.

Looks like other states aren't cutting the services that business needs/wants. Targeted tax cuts to new business in the state would have been far better than giving those at the top a huge tax cut. The results, while possibly premature, don't favor the governor's plan so far.

There is a downside to each side of the Laffer curve....and seems Kansas hit it on the downside and now have noplace to turn except higher taxes or cut services.

Interesting that you bash Obama for his failure to get the numbers that were promised during the stimulus propaganda but fail to do so now. Why?
 
Matt1970 said:
If higher taxes = jobs growth, why isn't NY with the highest gas & cigarette and second highest income tax in the nation busting at the seams with jobs?
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I think I have pretty well established my stance on this issue. I will say this for the tax issue though...

Society is built upon the idea that collective desire of the people be carried out by government and not in the private market. Collective action issues are a real problem, and government can play a role in solving them. So when a state cuts taxes too low to sustain the social investment that society is expecting, you can see some real negatives.

I don't think this is happening here, but I do believe you over tax and under tax. Using the other end like NY does not prove or disprove anything. I think overall we have a tax system that is built to help those at the top, because they are better organized and set it up that way. So in reality, those at the top pay pretty close to the same tax rate across any state. Its those who do not have the collective power to get loopholes who end up paying.
 
Engineer said:
It's not about the taxes and the fact that Kansas is at the point of diminishing returns, it the fact that Kansas is now cutting services that business like. They like an educated workforce, they like a healthy workforce, etc (now I know they don't want to pay for it), they like nice, new infrastructure....easy to get stuff in and out.

Looks like other states aren't cutting the services that business needs/wants. Targeted tax cuts to new business in the state would have been far better than giving those at the top a huge tax cut. The results, while possibly premature, don't favor the governor's plan so far.

There is a downside to each side of the Laffer curve....and seems Kansas hit it on the downside and now have noplace to turn except higher taxes or cut services.

Interesting that you bash Obama for his failure to get the numbers that were promised during the stimulus propaganda but fail to do so now. Why?
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Yes there are diminishing returns with cutting taxes as well as with raising them. And I will continue to criticize a stimulus that taxes years and years to actually pay out. Sorry, that's not how you do it.
 
realibrad said:
I think I have pretty well established my stance on this issue. I will say this for the tax issue though...

Society is built upon the idea that collective desire of the people be carried out by government and not in the private market. Collective action issues are a real problem, and government can play a role in solving them. So when a state cuts taxes too low to sustain the social investment that society is expecting, you can see some real negatives.

I don't think this is happening here, but I do believe you over tax and under tax. Using the other end like NY does not prove or disprove anything. I think overall we have a tax system that is built to help those at the top, because they are better organized and set it up that way. So in reality, those at the top pay pretty close to the same tax rate across any state. Its those who do not have the collective power to get loopholes who end up paying.
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I am more than happy when government actually works for the collective desire of the people but more times than not it is acting in the collective desire of itself.
 
0714-kansas_full_600.jpg

IraqiInformationMinister.jpg
 
So if KS was really trying to create incentives, why did it zero out income taxes rather than sales or property taxes?

Typically state income taxes are a small portion of an avg person's total tax load, meanwhile property and sales taxes are far more impactful.

I would think removing sales taxes would be far more beneficial to putting cash in a Kansan's pocket to spend locally.

Who does cutting income taxes most benefit? Could it be Kock bros? Hmmmm

Edit:

KS sales tax is 8.15% From 2011 data (pre-Brownback) total tax burden is 9.4%. For reference, Taxachusetts is 10.3%. Most states are close in total %, and KS just tried to create separation by attacking a small contributor.

How was this ever going to work? Who is dying to move to KS with failing schools and infrastructure to save one lousy % on your tax bill?

BURDENS%20MAP_0.png
 
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Bitek said:
So if KS was really trying to create incentives, why did it zero out income taxes rather than sales or property taxes?

Typically state income taxes are a small portion of an avg person's total tax load, meanwhile property and sales taxes are far more impactful.

I would think removing sales taxes would be far more beneficial to putting cash in a Kansan's pocket to spend locally.

Who does cutting income taxes most benefit? Could it be Kock bros? Hmmmm
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Oh ya, dinging a person for up to 10% of their income when other states have no income tax whatsoever is just a "small portion". That's why here in NY state I have the 2nd highest state income tax, highest gas tax in the nation, the highest cigarette tax in the nation, 4th highest liquor tax, I pay 3% on my property taxes and these fuckers still have problems balancing the budgets.
 
Matt1970 said:
Oh ya, dinging a person for up to 10% of their income when other states have no income tax whatsoever is just a "small portion". That's why here in NY state I have the 2nd highest state income tax, highest gas tax in the nation, the highest cigarette tax in the nation, 4th highest liquor tax, I pay 3% on my property taxes and these fuckers still have problems balancing the budgets.
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See edits and graph. NY is an outlier and totally distorted due to NYC vs upstate. I know, i lived there for a short time and would never move back.
Most states are close in their tax bills
 
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Matt1970 said:
Kansas would qualify as an outlier too then but people here seem to use it as a tool for their cause.
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Look at the graphs again and those from the previous posts. There are a number of states with no income taxes, or sales taxes (like DE), but the total tax bills are still not that far apart. It's more about who is getting taxed.

Point is they get you one way or another. In PA now, and sales tax is 2% less than KS. Other taxes are higher. In the end, the little drop they did in total worth moving to Salina or Wichita? No fking way
 
IOW, if you are retired, what does this do for you? Nothing. You don't have income, but you are paying high sales taxes.

Who does this help? Those with high incomes.
 
Matt1970 said:
Kansas would qualify as an outlier too then but people here seem to use it as a tool for their cause.
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There are 29 states that have the same or higher rate than Kansas on that graph. Kansas rate is now lower because the graph is from 2011. How are they an outlier?
 
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