Supermicro Motherboards

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PCResources

Banned
Oct 4, 2000
2,499
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<< Just what did I say that made you think that Im trying to make everyone think the way I do? Everything I've said on this thread is my personal opinion. I always look at whats the best for your money before making any foolish recommendations. In this case, my opinion is that the K7T Master will be the best because you get everything you need on one board, oppose to expensive Micron boards or K7T Pro+SCSI RAID which will cost you a fortune. And obviously, I dont know the validity of the things you do, but I can believe what Anandtech says. >>



Ok, LXi, im sorry, i apologize, i have been trying to convince a few of my customers not to believe in everything they read, for them the K7T Master wouldn't suffice. So i do have something to say about the K7T Master, i have tried it out myself, and i had some probs with it, but nothing serious, MSI makes good mobos. But when i think server, i think RAID, i think more than 5 disks in a RAID 5 solution. And if you buy a K7T Master at this point, you have wasted your money.

The thing is, if you have an opinion based on anything else than your own experience, you should provide a link, this helps a lot.

And any opionion based on what you read about something should never be stated as your own, always provide the authors name, the articles name and if there is one, a link.

Now back to the original question, which should be the thing we want to answer, do you know why his setup didn't work?? Do you know if the K7T Master would work for him?? If your answer is YES, then how do you know that? I can tell you that the K7T Master with the latest bios would work fine with his Creamworks hardware, but can you say that you are sure it will??

Patrick Palm

Am speaking for PC Resources
 

dl

Banned
Oct 29, 1999
1,633
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What's the definition of a server anyways? heck a lowly P90 machine running Linux can be considered a server...therefore a mobo have no need to meet certain requirements to be labeled a server board...

anyhoo...to answer your question Jules:

Supermicro mobos are super nice and stable...

I never had any problems with my P6DGU otho it did cost me an arm and a leg :eek:

I would suggest that you do some homework about the app you'll be using with the new rig and then decide which platform is most compatible with this app..

edit: I will say this though...if you base your buying decisions on some guy's review..well then you're stooooooooopid :) Instead, do your homework, research the products, ask some questions, listen, and then make your final decision...common sense eh?
 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,475
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<<Just because i have different opinions, and have the experience to back them up you do not have to resort to name calling, ok?>>

Maybe you don't understand something. I don't know who you are, what your experience is or what your opinion is. You present yourself as the all knowing faction on everything PC related. Your opinion is worth exactly what we paid for it, nothing. You can provide nothing to change that. Frankly I think you are only on this board to try to generate traffic for your own board (based on this stupid posts you make to OS forum). I'll let you in on a little secret, that name you have and include in all your sigs is meaningless to me, it means as much as saying you work for pcworld or some stupid sh!t like that. Your opinion is worth little more than anyone elses around here and frankly you come off as a prick so deal with being treated like one.

Sorry for crapping out your thread Jules... :(
 

LXi

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2000
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<<Now back to the original question, which should be the thing we want to answer, do you know why his setup didn't work?? Do you know if the K7T Master would work for him?? If your answer is YES, then how do you know that? I can tell you that the K7T Master with the latest bios would work fine with his Creamworks hardware, but can you say that you are sure it will??>>

How do I know? Good question. Now I may not be a professional in this business, nor am I the most experienced and intelligent. But I consider myself a fairly well informed person. I read a lot as you can see, I dont believe in everything thats written down. But I do spend a lot of time researching about variety of products. I dont bother with hardware thats not worth your hard earned money, Im very focused at price/performance ratio, Im a big fan of cheap and high performing products. I choose my recommendations carefully so Im sure the guy asking the question will get the hardware thats stable, reliable, cost-effecitive and backed by a good warranty.

Now you will probably accuse me of not having any actual hands-on experience. Well... I cant really say that I do, but I do have lots of chances to actually play with these hardware. I have a friend who manages a fairly large computer shop, and I go there a lot to help him out. I worked with the K7T Master a few weeks ago and it was very impressive. There is a Fry's Electronics store right across my street, so I do get frequent chances to see lots of hardware, monitors and machines. After all, Im not here to pull things out of my ass, I want people here to get help and effective help.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,255
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I personally really like Supermicro boards. Here is a link.
EDIT: Now that I've read the thread, I am going to add more to it.

PCResources: If I remember correctly Flight Safety used to use SM boards for their sim's servers. (BTW: The cheapest I ever saw one being built for was 28 million) They may not be the best &quot;server&quot; boards in the world, but they are good at what they are made for.

On a personal note: I think that you are a nef, who thinks he knows everything, which you don't. You act like a 13 year-old boy with overactive hormones. I also feel that you give PC Resources a very bad image with your attitude against everyone. By the way that you go against everyone, you seem like you just want to argue and really don't care about the subject.

If you keep acting like this, I look forward to the day you are banned.

Oh, one more thing PC, learn how to post your full response within one message, instead of writing three to increase post count.

Sorry for crapping on the thread.
 

optoman

Diamond Member
Nov 15, 1999
4,181
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I had a DBE before and loved it. Never had any problems and was totally stable. The don't have the greastest numbers performance wise but the are rock hard stable. I like the idea of knowing I can have a system that I can trust rather than a system that blows everything away and isn't that stable. Just my 2 cents.
 

kombatmud

Senior member
Dec 3, 1999
446
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I've had 2 Supermicro P6DLS 's, and a Supermicro PIIIDME. The P6DLS's were both rock solid stable, but the PIIIDME had some problems. This is kind of weird, because I bought the P6DLS's used, and the PIIIDME new. The main problem it had was the RTC was dead on arrival. That problem somehow escalated until the board was mostly useless. Dealing with supermicro tech support is sort of like beating your head against a brick wall. I have a supermicro case also, and the tech support guy argued with me as to what optional features my case had installed in it. When he admitted that I knew what I was talking about, he still didn't give me any useful information. After a lot of trouble dealing with the tech support, I finally got an RMA number, and my board got sent back to them today. I still think the PIIIDME is a great board, because it has a ton of good features. I think the intel 840 chipset is extremely picky though, and that's causing most of the problems. It is extremely picky with ram, but I'm under the impression that's a trend with the i840 motherboards, the weirdest thing is that the DIMMs have to be installed in pairs, and I actually had to pull 256 MBs that was causing it to be unstable, because they had the Micron -8e chips on them, which are apparently not compatible with the 840 chipset (according to a tech guy at supermicro, so I have no idea how true that is) The system worked with them, but froze a lot, worked much better afterwards. All in all, supermicro produces some really nice feature-rich products, but I would recommend doing anything you can to avoid dealing with their tech support.
 

Tweakin

Platinum Member
Feb 7, 2000
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I have had several Supermicro boards, all P6DBE's and have had zero problems with any of them. They are not ment to be overclocked, but they were reliable. I did perform some dual PIII comparisons between the Super and the Tyan boards, and I switched over due to faster memory bandwidth and a few tweaking options. All in all, a Supermicro P6DBE or Tyan Tiger 100 should work for you...no frills, just a solid platform......
 

Jules48

Member
Jul 26, 2000
31
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Jeez, I never meant to start a war off here!!

Seriously, thanks everybody for the feedback. Perhaps I should be more specific about the issues in question. I'm a producer and remixer and the system in question is our studio's principal audio workstation. It's fitted with two of Creamware's Scope boards, which run 30 Motorola SHARC chips for audio processing. Unfortunately this hardware, coupled with the fact that we may have up to 100 24bit audio tracks running up/down the PCI bus means that PCI bus performance is absolutely crucial to the system's success. In addition, the current batch of DAW and audio editing software, along with all the plug-ins we use puts a heavy load on the processor, so pure grunt power is also important.

The Athlon System we currently have (Asus A7V, 512Mb PC133, ATA100 2x40Gb etc.) is great in the grunt department, but there is a very real issue with PCI performance. Creamware have also had numerous complaints from other users running Via KT133 based systems, to the extent that they are no longer recommending Via boards for use with their hardware. I've even spoken to AMD on this point, who have acknowledged that the high end audio/video workstation market is still perhaps not best served by their products - not because of the processors (they seem to me at least to be superior to Intel alternatives in this specific application because of superior floating point performance), but because of current chipset support. If I had my way I'd go Athlon, but the last couple of months experience has demonstrated that the chipset issues in question need attention, and much as I had hoped the AMD760 might sort things out, early reports I've heard suggest otherwise - effectively the Southbridge sounds like it's the same as the KT133, which means little change on the PCI front.

I could be way off the mark here, and maybe my problems were specific to the Asus A7V. For a start we couldn't get it to ruin with more than 512Mb, despite originally spec'ing 768Mb. Then we discovered it was originally only recommended by AMD up to 900MHz, although this has changed recently. If anybody can recommend a Socket A motherboard that is rock solid, gives server type reliability and chunky PCI bus performance then that would be a real solution for me and I'd love to hear. I was tempted to go for an AMD 760, DDR system but I figure they're a good couple of months from being reliabel and I can't afford to be a guinea pig again.

So we ended up at a PIII Supermicro platform on the simple criteria of reliability, horsepower and PCI bus performance. My OEM is not trying to rip me off - they are building this system for practically no additional cost and taking back the Athlon system. Personally I don't feel great about going for PIII as our all encompassing, future proofing solution, because it's near the end of the line. But unless somebody can guarantee me an Athlon system that meets the criteria it seems to be the most sensible option - we simply can't afford to have another system that gives PCI Master/Bus Overflow errors every few minutes, crashes when too many tracks are playing and just generally seems awkward with big bus loads.

I hope this makes sense. My opinions are not intended to be pro or anti Intel/AMD, they're just based on my own experiences and what I've gleaned from people who know more than I do.

I'm enormnously grateful for any further advice and if anyone prefers to mail me off-list for fear of getting involved in a slagging match then that's cool to (mail me here).

Many thanks again.

Jules
 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,475
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Jules, consider the opinion already presented of going with a dual proc board. If you pick up a dual board now you can drop in another 1gig PIII later and get more performance (if you are running a dual processor aware OS like NT). You may want to check with creamware about this though, dual procs can saturate a bus much better than a single processor. Also even though I dislike rambus, a dual channel PC800 system might give a good memory bandwidth boost and improve performance in the audio mixing.... Just some thoughts...
 

PCResources

Banned
Oct 4, 2000
2,499
0
0


<< Rahvin wrote: Your opinion is worth exactly what we paid for it, nothing >>



Well, if it makes you feel any better, you can pay me... But i'm not here to get paid, and what my opinions worth, well, time will tell.



<< Zorba wrote: On a personal note: I think that you are a nef, who thinks he knows everything, which you don't. You act like a 13 year-old boy with overactive hormones. I also feel that you give PC Resources a very bad image with your attitude against everyone. By the way that you go against everyone, you seem like you just want to argue and really don't care about the subject. >>



I do not believe that i know everything. The attitude that i have towards other people who tries to convince somebody about something they really have no idea about, well, that says a lot about me, as well as my company. I do not like to see people trying to convince other people about issues that they obviously have no experience of, if you want to take chances, then you can do that by yourself, you do not have to go to any forum to do this. This thread was posted by a person looking for answers and he should get qualified answers, not just guesses about what might work. I don't think he has the time fooling around with hardware that MIGHT work for him, i think he needs answers as to what would surely work for him.

Here is a question for all of you who posted to this thread, how many of you have used the motherboard you recommend together with Creamworks? If you have not, then how the heck do you know that your recommendation is any good at all? If you are only guessing, please say so.

I have used the K7T PRO2 and Creamworks, and it works just great, and i have used Micron boards together with Creamworks, and they work even better, so i give the recommendation to use either of these boards, this is not just a guess, i know from experience that it works.

Patrick Palm

Am speaking for PC Resorces
 

Jules48

Member
Jul 26, 2000
31
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Patrick

When you say 'Creamworks' do you mean 'Creamware', because I'm talking about 'Creamware' which is specialist audio hardware? Could be there's some confusion or misunderstanding here.

Incidentally, I spoke to AMD yesterday who have acknowledged that there are issues with the current Athlon chipsets (Via KT133) and certain types of audio and video hardware. They're hoping to remedy it in the AMD 760 chipset, but this suggests to me that the problems I've experienced with the Asus A7V are likely to be duplicated on any Via motherboard (including the Microstar ones). However, if you have built a Creamware system on one of these boards and got good performance I'd love to know the spec'. Also, do you have a URL for the Micron main boards you're referring to? I can only find Micron RAM and complete systems.

Many thanks for your help.

Jules

 

PCResources

Banned
Oct 4, 2000
2,499
0
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<< Try not to be so condescending next time. Your knowledge could be tops but your bedside manner might need a little work. Instead of asking what a person does for a living to show that you are more knowledgable than he is, just state your opinion as an opinion and let the guy asking determine who to believe. I'm sure others will recognize the value of what you have to offer. >>



Of course, you are right, i'm not here to offend anyone, i'm here to help. Thank you for your input. :)

Jules: I meant Creamware, sometimes my fingers are faster than my brain... ;-)

The specs for the K7T PRO2 system:

MSI K7T PRO2 motherboard
Crucial PC-133+ SDRAM 3*512MB
Creamware SCOPE /SP
Matrox G450 Graphic card
400W power supply
Adaptec SCSI 3200 RAID
5x Cheetah X15 disks

About the Micron boards, i meant any board using the Micron Samurai DDR chipset.

This chipset features PC-266 speed, a 64bit pci interface and SMP.

The memory to use with this board would be the Micron (Crucial) DDR-266 memory.

One great board using the Samurai chipset is the PCRES 20266 RAID (hey, never knock free advertising, right?).

I hope this will help you out somewhat.

Patrick Palm

Am speaking for PC Resources
 

LXi

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2000
7,987
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PCResources:

I have to agree with Red Dawn.


<<Here is a question for all of you who posted to this thread, how many of you have used the motherboard you recommend together with Creamworks? If you have not, then how the heck do you know that your recommendation is any good at all? If you are only guessing, please say so.>>

And this? We're not guys that likes to come here giving telling guesses. We may have not used the board or whatever but based on the recources we have on line we can make pretty good recommendations because of that. And like rahvin said, that &quot;PCResources&quot; with that name you have there means absolutely nothing to us, your experience is not credible whatsoever, who knows if you're just &quot;guessing&quot; in your own definition. An opinion is an opinion, you can do nothing to make yours more valuable than ours regardless of what you do for a living. Of course we dont want people bullshitting here, but as you can see people who participated this thread are educated people that are fairly knowlegable about what they're talking about.



<<I have used the K7T PRO2 and Creamworks, and it works just great, and i have used Micron boards together with Creamworks, and they work even better, so i give the recommendation to use either of these boards, this is not just a guess, i know from experience that it works.>>

Since when did the K7T Pro2 go on sell? From reliable sources I heard that they will be released early November. Unless the one you have there is an engineering sample. If your company sells them, let me know because Im looking for one myself.

 

PCResources

Banned
Oct 4, 2000
2,499
0
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<< And this? We're not guys that likes to come here giving telling guesses. We may have not used the board or whatever but based on the recources we have on line we can make pretty good recommendations because of that. And like rahvin said, that &quot;PCResources&quot; with that name you have there means absolutely nothing to us, your experience is not credible whatsoever, who knows if you're just &quot;guessing&quot; in your own definition. An opinion is an opinion, you can do nothing to make yours more valuable than ours regardless of what you do for a living. Of course we dont want people bullshitting here, but as you can see people who participated this thread are educated people that are fairly knowlegable about what they're talking about. >>



OK, enough of this now, the only thing that i could possibly add to my argument is that my opinion should be more valuable because i actually tried this K7T-Creamware SCOPE combo myself.

I will try not to step on any more toes in the future.



<< Since when did the K7T Pro2 go on sell? From reliable sources I heard that they will be released early November. Unless the one you have there is an engineering sample. If your company sells them, let me know because Im looking for one myself. >>



Nope, this was not an engineering sample, i have had them for about ten days now, and if you would like to buy one, then please contact me.

Patrick Palm

Am speaking for PC Resources
 

LXi

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2000
7,987
0
0
How the hell do I contact you? No web page, no email, no ICQ, no nothin'.
 

zsir

Senior member
Oct 9, 1999
803
0
0
Surprise Surprise the pro2 is available......?

Drop me an email too Patrick......
 

Jules48

Member
Jul 26, 2000
31
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Would the Pro2 board be better than the Master board they just released? I figured the master may be better for my requirements.

 

LXi

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2000
7,987
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0
The Master has SCSI onboard, the Pro2 doesnt, but Pro2 has multiplier adjustment which is good for overclocking.
 

Jules48

Member
Jul 26, 2000
31
0
0
Patrick

Thanks for the spec' information on the Microstar system. Have you any idea why this motherboard, using the same Via KT133 chipset would give good performance whilst others seem to disappoint. I'm concerned that this is more a matter of degree rather than working or failing, (my A7V 'works', it's just much less stable than it should be and provides less PCI bus channels for audio use than other systems)or is there something architecturally about the Microstar boards that makes them particularly suitable for this type of PCI bus intensive use? If your client was available for me to email privately I'd be happy to discuss performance with him.

I am trying to reack down the Micron based motherboards you refer to as I was unaware that an alternate chipset for Socket A Athlons was actually available. Searching for the PCRES board you mentioned has so far yielded nothing. Is this a new AMD760 based board, because according to AMD (I spoke to their head of Audio/Video Developer Relations yesterday) the 760 chipset is still in final beta stages. I wondered if you had a URL or more details.

I'm still seriously considering a Serverworks based PIII solution (a la Supermicro) but don't want to right AMD off just yet. I really appreciate your help on this Patrick.

Jules


 

Jules48

Member
Jul 26, 2000
31
0
0
Just realised the PCRES board you refer to is presumably a PCResources board made by your company. I've been to pcresources.com but not much there. Is that the right place?
 

PCResources

Banned
Oct 4, 2000
2,499
0
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Jules, you are quite right, the PCRES 20266 is a board designed by my PC Resources, however, i cannot give you a link to this board, because there isn't one yet.

However, i will provide you with a link that i got from Micron yesterday, describing the chipset, this chart illustrates the Samurai DDR with XEON CPU's but the same chipset is availiable with a EV6 bus. In my design the motherboard has a six PCB multi-shielded design.

Madison, Samurai DDR

As i usually do not sell any parts, but complete and installed systems, i really have no prices on any single parts, but if you wish to buy the motherboard by itself, maybe we can work something out.

Regards

Patrick Palm

Am speaking for PC Resources