Superior Arms Lower Receiver 89.95 + Shipping In Stock

[Billyzeke]

Originally posted by: Spike

Originally posted by: bob4432
getting closer to the elusive $1300 6940 - found them for $1500....http://www.sturmgewehr.com/web...i4sale.cgi?read=216785

Dang thats nice looking... maybe I ought to set my sites on something like that. I really want an AR with the flat top and flip sites, are there any cheaper models with this? I don't need something super accurate, just a basic plinker but having the flexibility of iron sites or optics is very nice.

I would definitely recommend going for a Colt, especially at the reasonable prices bob4432 has posted. IMHO they are the standard that all AR's are measured against. And in the long run they will hold their resale value making them a pretty good investment. I have 2 that are worth way more now than what I paid for them.

You can find cheaper rifles, but you usually get what you pay for. Here is a pretty good page to do a little reading on what to look for in an AR. Text

Well I'm off to the beach (thats why I'm up so early this morning). Have a good one fellas!:thumbsup:

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: Spike

Originally posted by: bob4432
getting closer to the elusive $1300 6940 - found them for $1500....http://www.sturmgewehr.com/web...i4sale.cgi?read=216785

Dang thats nice looking... maybe I ought to set my sites on something like that. I really want an AR with the flat top and flip sites, are there any cheaper models with this? I don't need something super accurate, just a basic plinker but having the flexibility of iron sites or optics is very nice.

many, many, but colts carry a premium. i have just wanted a colt for a long time even though i build my own. colts keep their re-sale value better than others, so you can think of it as an investment too - not like computers items that are replaced every 6mos if you want to keep up w/ the technology cycle. that being said, guns are like computers in a way - many, many dealers and brands - not so many actual manfs. you just need to find what dealers are selling the good quality manf stuff and you can save yourself quite a bit if you want to "roll your own"

figure what you want, then just pick the parts you want for your desired purpose, and don't let the looks or barrel length really let that give you a pre-conception of a rifles accuracy. most ars today w/ a chrome lined barrel are probably capable of 1" @ 100yd accuracy w/ 5shot groups, easily 2" - more times than not, the rifle will out shoot you. stainless barrels, even mass produced ones are a bit more accurate than chrome lined, but again, we are talking say 1/4" or so @ 100yds over 5shot groups. usually when you get into more accuracy than that you need to reload yourself and actually tailor the ammo for your firearm. the $725 del-ton kit i talked about above is probably a decent 1-2moa shooter if the shooter does his part and you are using decent ammo. surplus ammo is going to give you 3-4" groups out of even $5k target/varmit guns. also, fwiw, if you don't know, moa means minute of angle - a unit of measure. 1moa = 1" @ 100yds, 2" @ 200yds, 3" @ 300yds, etc.

are you looking to build your own or buy pre-configured? fwiw, you can usually get a bit more bang for buck because of a tax on a complete firearm. when i say build your, this could mean buying a complet lower which would be the actual lower, where the mag goes in and stock and then an upper seperate. w/ the ar all you do is put the upper on the lower and put in 2 pins.

i would start reading over at ar15.com and see exactly what you want. at first you will probably be overwhelmed as there are many manfs/dealers just like w/ computers, so kind of sit back, read for a while and absorb it.

also, if you have access to some home garage tools you can go further and build your own upper like installing the upper completely - install the barrel to the upper receiver, etc and get a really custom setup.

another good option is the stag/cmt uppers sold by legal transfers - only problem is wait time. you can see here - http://ar15sa.fatcow.com/store/page2.html the 2ht model for $654 w/ sights is a good deal. then figure ~$250 for a decent lower setup, $12/ea 30rnd mags and then ammo. also check your local laws to see if you are in a ban state or not - i would do this first so you don't get into trouble or get your hopes up but your state gov will not let you.

i could go on for hours about stuff, hit me via pm if you need any certain questions answered and i will do my best to offer a non-biased view from first hand experience and also a general consensus of the shooting community, at least to the best i can get from my dealings w/ it.

 

[slashbinslashbash]

Just to echo/expand a few other things in this thread...

AIM Surplus is a great place, I bought a bunch of mags from them pre-election and they have held the same prices all the way to now, even when they were sold out and on constant backorder for all high-cap AK and AR mags. Now they are all pretty much back in stock, and at the same prices ($10 for a basic AR 30rd mag, $14 for the Magpul PMAG's and $11 for a basic AK 30rd mag). I am impressed. If you want AK's then they usually have a couple to choose from, and another good web dealer is classicarms.us . I bought my first 2 AK's from them as well as a few milsurp bolt-actions. Of course for either one you will have to have the gun (or receiver, which counts as a gun) shipped to a local Federal Firearms License (FFL) dealer which will usually be a local gunshop which will charge $20-$40 to receive and process the gun transfer to you.

Del-Ton is another great store. I ordered my 16" midlength kit from them in mid-November. It took till mid-December for me to get it, but I did, and it works great. Another good place for AR kits is Model One Sales, http://www.model1sales.com They have a lot bigger selection of calibers and configurations than Del-Ton, but for some reason they don't carry a mid-length kit, which is what I wanted for my first AR. But their prices (under $500 for a basic kit) and quality are comparable to Del-Ton.

As for the lower receivers, it doesn't matter what is marked on the lower with respect to caliber. A lot of lowers just say "Multi". The upper (actually, just the barrel) is what determines the caliber on an AR-15. I would recommend getting a barrel with a 5.56 chamber since you can then shoot .223 (commercial) and 5.56 (milsurp) with no worries. If you are building a tack-driving varminter, then maybe go for .223 since you can generally get more accurate .223 loads, which will not be as accurate in the 5.56 chamber. But if you are building a dedicated long-range varminter, why not go for .204 or something else (.204 kits are available from Model One). Also some companies offer the "Wylde Chamber" which is a cross between .223 and 5.56, is safe to shoot both and gains some accuracy over the 5.56 chamber when shooting .223-spec rounds.

Contrary to popular belief, there are differences between lowers when it comes to stupid little things like clearances. I have an Aero Precision lower that I built using a Del-Ton kit, and my brother-in-law has a DPMS lower that I built using a Model One kit. It was easier for me to get most of the lower parts into my lower, but the Del-Ton machine scres that attaches the pistol grip to the lower was too long for the hole in for my Aero Precision lower; I could not tighten the pistol grip tight enough. The Del-Ton screw fit just fine in his DPMS lower. Whether this is a problem with the lower or with the screw, I couldn't tell you; but these things apparently come up from time to time. It was easy enough to fix mine with a few washers from Home Depot to build up inside my pistol grip. And it was much harder to get the front pivot detent put into his lower than into mine. I would think that the spring holes are drilled to slightly different depths, which made mine much easier to install. On his, we actually lost his detent because it was sent flying across the room by the spring.

We built the two AR's in the same day and it wasn't so hard, but I can't say that I really relish doing it again. I certainly would not ridicule anybody who decided to buy a complete, assembled lower like the CMMG that AIM has for $209 (the rest of the assembly is very easy). And then go ahead and buy the whole kit from Del-Ton or M1 just to have an extra lower parts kit which you could sell for $60-$70 no problem. The dimensional aspects of the various lower receivers are probably the biggest difference you will find, but it is hard to call any one of them better than another because of it. Another difference is in the finish. If you look at the CMMG receivers on AIM, you will notice that they have a Teflon finish over their anodizing, which gives them a semi-gloss appearance that I think looks pretty good (I have seen CMMG lowers in person) but might not match most upper receivers which are just anodized (although I got a Teflon'd upper in my Del-Ton kit, so I'm going to eventually get a CMMG lower to match with it). In general the anodized parts look more of a dark grey color while the Teflon parts look more of a true black. It is hard to say though, and if you want a perfectly matched gun then you will either have to buy a fully assembled rifle or re-finish everything once it's assembled.

Moving on to other differences.... look at the two images of the Superior Arms vs. the CMMG:

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/cmmgl001back.jpg
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/ars15back.jpg

Open them up in two browser tabs and switch back and forth between the tabs. You can tell that the CMMG was machined more precisely, just the way the various cuts show more of a definite line between the two different surfaces, while the Superior Arms seems to blend together a bit. Anyway, probably not very important, but it would feel different in your hands.

As for recommended configurations, I would go for something basic for your first kit. The standard fixed-stock 20" AR is a classic, as is the M4-style carbine with a 16" barrel (minimum legal barrel length in the US (well OK, you can get shorter barrels but you will have to pay $200 tax and go through a separate and lengthy background check for that)) and collapsible stock. Get one with a fixed front sight (it won't get in the way, even with optics; it will disappear with magnified scopes, and it will co-witness with red dots) and it's your choice on the rear sight, whether you want the built-in carry handle/rear sight or a flat top that will require you to buy a bolt-on rear sight. The flat top is better for adding optics, but it's not too hard to add optics to a carry handle either. If you want a magnified scope for hunting then the flat top is obviously better, but if you want a red dot then you could go either way. The iron sights on AR's are pretty good, and of course they are more reliable than any kind of optic.

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: slashbinslashbash
Just to echo/expand a few other things in this thread...

AIM Surplus is a great place, I bought a bunch of mags from them pre-election and they have held the same prices all the way to now, even when they were sold out and on constant backorder for all high-cap AK and AR mags. Now they are all pretty much back in stock, and at the same prices ($10 for a basic AR 30rd mag, $14 for the Magpul PMAG's and $11 for a basic AK 30rd mag). I am impressed. If you want AK's then they usually have a couple to choose from, and another good web dealer is classicarms.us . I bought my first 2 AK's from them as well as a few milsurp bolt-actions. Of course for either one you will have to have the gun (or receiver, which counts as a gun) shipped to a local Federal Firearms License (FFL) dealer which will usually be a local gunshop which will charge $20-$40 to receive and process the gun transfer to you.

Del-Ton is another great store. I ordered my 16" midlength kit from them in mid-November. It took till mid-December for me to get it, but I did, and it works great. Another good place for AR kits is Model One Sales, http://www.model1sales.com They have a lot bigger selection of calibers and configurations than Del-Ton, but for some reason they don't carry a mid-length kit, which is what I wanted for my first AR. But their prices (under $500 for a basic kit) and quality are comparable to Del-Ton.

As for the lower receivers, it doesn't matter what is marked on the lower with respect to caliber. A lot of lowers just say "Multi". The upper (actually, just the barrel) is what determines the caliber on an AR-15. I would recommend getting a barrel with a 5.56 chamber since you can then shoot .223 (commercial) and 5.56 (milsurp) with no worries. If you are building a tack-driving varminter, then maybe go for .223 since you can generally get more accurate .223 loads, which will not be as accurate in the 5.56 chamber. But if you are building a dedicated long-range varminter, why not go for .204 or something else (.204 kits are available from Model One). Also some companies offer the "Wylde Chamber" which is a cross between .223 and 5.56, is safe to shoot both and gains some accuracy over the 5.56 chamber when shooting .223-spec rounds.

Contrary to popular belief, there are differences between lowers when it comes to stupid little things like clearances. I have an Aero Precision lower that I built using a Del-Ton kit, and my brother-in-law has a DPMS lower that I built using a Model One kit. It was easier for me to get most of the lower parts into my lower, but the Del-Ton machine scres that attaches the pistol grip to the lower was too long for the hole in for my Aero Precision lower; I could not tighten the pistol grip tight enough. The Del-Ton screw fit just fine in his DPMS lower. Whether this is a problem with the lower or with the screw, I couldn't tell you; but these things apparently come up from time to time. It was easy enough to fix mine with a few washers from Home Depot to build up inside my pistol grip. And it was much harder to get the front pivot detent put into his lower than into mine. I would think that the spring holes are drilled to slightly different depths, which made mine much easier to install. On his, we actually lost his detent because it was sent flying across the room by the spring.

We built the two AR's in the same day and it wasn't so hard, but I can't say that I really relish doing it again. I certainly would not ridicule anybody who decided to buy a complete, assembled lower like the CMMG that AIM has for $209 (the rest of the assembly is very easy). And then go ahead and buy the whole kit from Del-Ton or M1 just to have an extra lower parts kit which you could sell for $60-$70 no problem. The dimensional aspects of the various lower receivers are probably the biggest difference you will find, but it is hard to call any one of them better than another because of it. Another difference is in the finish. If you look at the CMMG receivers on AIM, you will notice that they have a Teflon finish over their anodizing, which gives them a semi-gloss appearance that I think looks pretty good (I have seen CMMG lowers in person) but might not match most upper receivers which are just anodized (although I got a Teflon'd upper in my Del-Ton kit, so I'm going to eventually get a CMMG lower to match with it). In general the anodized parts look more of a dark grey color while the Teflon parts look more of a true black. It is hard to say though, and if you want a perfectly matched gun then you will either have to buy a fully assembled rifle or re-finish everything once it's assembled.

Moving on to other differences.... look at the two images of the Superior Arms vs. the CMMG:

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/cmmgl001back.jpg
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/ars15back.jpg

Open them up in two browser tabs and switch back and forth between the tabs. You can tell that the CMMG was machined more precisely, just the way the various cuts show more of a definite line between the two different surfaces, while the Superior Arms seems to blend together a bit. Anyway, probably not very important, but it would feel different in your hands.

As for recommended configurations, I would go for something basic for your first kit. The standard fixed-stock 20" AR is a classic, as is the M4-style carbine with a 16" barrel (minimum legal barrel length in the US (well OK, you can get shorter barrels but you will have to pay $200 tax and go through a separate and lengthy background check for that)) and collapsible stock. Get one with a fixed front sight (it won't get in the way, even with optics; it will disappear with magnified scopes, and it will co-witness with red dots) and it's your choice on the rear sight, whether you want the built-in carry handle/rear sight or a flat top that will require you to buy a bolt-on rear sight. The flat top is better for adding optics, but it's not too hard to add optics to a carry handle either. If you want a magnified scope for hunting then the flat top is obviously better, but if you want a red dot then you could go either way. The iron sights on AR's are pretty good, and of course they are more reliable than any kind of optic.

while i agree w/ most of what you say, i would have to disagree w/ your statement that you can tell by a pic that the cmmg was machined more precisely, you can't tell that unless you have a mic and both in hand to compare. if there was a problem w/ superior arms then i am sure somebody on ar15.com would have noted it and they would be blacklisted in an instant. same w/ other less expensive brands like essential arms - overall pretty much all g2g.

as far as your experience w/ assembling, don't forget about tolerance stacking - this will make some items a bit tighter in certain builds but for the most part, out of the at least thousands of ars that get built yearly, any real machining issue is an extremely small portion of a %, and again, if certain manfs put out bad items, they would be called out on it. just read about vulcan/hesse....

some good reading here in regards to lowers - http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=318113

and i have to agree w/ you w/ that front detent - i always wear safety glasses as i have lost more than a couple, and the ones i have found are about 15' away from the assembly area 🙂

and also, machine drawings are available for free - just goole it and i am sure you will find them - again, they are free 🙂

 

[slashbinslashbash]

Originally posted by: bob4432
while i agree w/ most of what you say, i would have to disagree w/ your statement that you can tell by a pic that the cmmg was machined more precisely, you can't tell that unless you have a mic and both in hand to compare. if there was a problem w/ superior arms then i am sure somebody on ar15.com would have noted it and they would be blacklisted in an instant. same w/ other less expensive brands like essential arms - overall pretty much all g2g.

as far as your experience w/ assembling, don't forget about tolerance stacking - this will make some items a bit tighter in certain builds but for the most part, out of the at least thousands of ars that get built yearly, any real machining issue is an extremely small portion of a %, and again, if certain manfs put out bad items, they would be called out on it. just read about vulcan/hesse....

some good reading here in regards to lowers - http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=318113

and i have to agree w/ you w/ that front detent - i always wear safety glasses as i have lost more than a couple, and the ones i have found are about 15' away from the assembly area 🙂

and also, machine drawings are available for free - just goole it and i am sure you will find them - again, they are free 🙂

I'm not saying that either lower is more "in spec" than the other, as I really don't have any experience with either one, nor do I really have the know-how to do a thorough check. I just mean that I could pick out a few details, say the top "shelf" which is at the top of the magwell area, where that darn front detent spring goes in. The Superior Arms is flush with the top of the receiver, while the CMMG has a bit of the top machined away so that it's more contoured there. I understand that this is just a cosmetic issue, and it has nothing to do with the performance of the lower or with how "true to spec" it is, but it does show that the CMMG was machined in one place where the Superior Arms wasn't. Also, looking around that same area you can tell a difference in the transition between the flat surface of the magwell and the rounded raised part. In the CMMG it is better defined and overall "sharper". The Superior Arms looks more rounded. Again, not any sort of a meaningful difference, but to me it looks like CMMG finishes their receivers a little better than Superior Arms. Not enough to make up for a 60% price difference, but some people were wondering about the differences between lowers, and I thought I could point to some little things.

Same way with the tolerances. I know it could very well be that the Del-Ton screw was on the long end of spec, and my Aero Precision lower was tapped on the short end of spec, so when you put them together they didn't quite fit. Not a big problem, but again this is an example of the kind of thing I would expect to see in terms of differences from one manufacturer to another. Of course you were right, if anybody put out a receiver that was well out of spec then they would quickly be run out of town.

Oh, and of course there is one other difference: the logo of the manufacturer 🙂 It may sound silly, but in the end I would rather have a cool-looking picture on my gun than not. My DPMS lowers have a panther on them, which is kinda "blah" to me... the Aero Precision has a somewhat interesting logo that looks more like it belongs on an airplane than on a gun. The CMMG one looks pretty badass IMO. Superior Arms just has text. Spike's Tactical has some cool ones. Bushmaster has a snake. Whatever floats your boat 🙂

Oh, one last thing. My Aero Precision doesn't like the Magpul P-Mags. They don't slide in all the way on their own. If you really jam them in place, they will lock in, but if you just put it in normally it will not seat fully, and the gun will jam due to the mag not being correctly placed. This did not happen with my brother-in-law's DPMS. Again I guess this is just a stacking tolerances thing. The P-Mags are slightly bigger than the normal mags, and the Aero Precision magwell is slightly smaller than the normal magwell, so they don't work well together. This is the only issue with my Aero Precision that makes me kinda mad. I really like the P-Mags but cannot use them in my AR. Oh well, I just need to build up another receiver (I have an extra DPMS) and then they will work, but man, talk about frustrating.

 

[EXman]

Did anyone get theirs yet? Kenny woods gun show is in town.

Still have not bought a gun yet. I have been looking, learning and asking questions for a few months. Could I buy this lower $89 and a del-ton kit for $465? plus shipping of course. at the gun show I saw one AR15 used for $729.

Man I could buy SKS for $250-300 all day tricked out AK Saiga carbines with tapco stocks/pistol grips, tri rails with light, cheap det dot sight and vertical saw type foregrip for $450 No tax no documentation private sale. Most guys were companies and wanted to collect tax and do documentation. I'd rather save time and money and not be on any government list.

Oh BTW gun shows ROCK! Funny thing though I didn't think so many hot women would be there. Really reminded me of a Harley rally.

Oh anyone have anything against a charter arms 38 revolver. Almost bought a new one of those for $300 very basic 5 shot.

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: EXman
Still have not bought a gun looks and learning asking questions for a few months. Could I buy this lower $89 and a del-ton kit for $465? plus shipping of course.

you would need to have this lower sent to a ffl close to you and there would be that fee. on the ar, the lower is the "firearm/registered item"

 

[Brock123]

I just got mine today. It looks pretty good I don't have any others to compare it too my other ar is carbon. But I am happy with the finish hopefully in 14 weeks the parts fit good.