Superfetch and Indexing foe Win 7 and SSD

InterfaceMan

Member
Aug 26, 2010
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0
HI,

I just installed a new system, running Win7 64 bit on Intel 80Gb SSD also I have a WD 1TB HDD (SATA 3). I believe ny TRIM function is ruuning. I read couple of articles and disabled Windows Indexing and Superfetch. Now my system boots a little slow. Before it took 15 second and now it takes about 61 sec. Is that anything to do the indexing and superfetch disbale?

Also I ran AS HDD benchmark and crystal Disk software, sequential write for my WD HDD is faster then my SSD ? It is possible

Please see attached test result:
TYPE
READ MB/s
WRITE MB/s
DEVICE
SEQUENTIAL
256.62
77.67
SSD

134.17
128.36
WD
4K
16.73
37.27
SSD

0.68
1.32
WD
4K-64THRD
92.93
58.16
SSD

0.73
1.30
WD
Access-Time
0.101 ms
0.117 ms
SSD

12.611 ms
2.873 ms
WD


SCORE 135 103 SSD
SCORE 15 15 WD

FINAL SCORE 308 SSD
FINAL SCORE 38 WD
 

Voo

Golden Member
Feb 27, 2009
1,684
0
76
Yeah Intel SSDs have slower sequential writes than modern 7.2krpm drives. Numbers seem to be ok for a 80gb Intel drive (though hard to read, a screenshot would've been better)

Otherwise just read the already linked thread for a lengthy, lengthy discussion about superfetch and co. Yeah really lengthy ;)
 

corkyg

Elite Member | Peripherals
Super Moderator
Mar 4, 2000
27,370
239
106
Agree. Superfetch is good. Indexing is a service that you may or may not ever really use. I keep Indexing off (XP Pro, Vista, and 7). It would only be a plus if I did searches. That is something I almost never do. And, if it slows down the search process by being off, so be it.
 

flamenko

Senior member
Apr 25, 2010
349
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www.thessdreview.com
Your HDD has a higher seq read simply because the Intel drive uses NAND capable of only reaching 70MB/s sequential writes. That means absolutely nothing and you should be looking at the difference in your 4Kb randoms.

Superfetch.... hmmm...where to start. ok How about this?

This is from the engineers point of view at MSDN:

Will Superfetch be disabled on SSDs?
Yes, for most systems with SSDs.
If the system disk is an SSD, and the SSD performs adequately on random reads and doesn’t have glaring performance issues with random writes or flushes, then Superfetch, boot prefetching, application launch prefetching, ReadyBoost and ReadDrive will all be disabled.
Initially, we had configured all of these features to be off on all SSDs, but we encountered sizable performance regressions on some systems. In root causing those regressions, we found that some first generation SSDs had severe enough random write and flush problems that ultimately lead to disk reads being blocked for long periods of time. With Superfetch and other prefetching re-enabled, performance on key scenarios was markedly improved.


Intels new Users guide to the SSD says this:

Disable Superfetch(For Microsoft Windows Vista and Windows 7)
•On your “Start” search menu, type “services.msc”. Scroll down and find the “Superfetch” line, and double click it to open up its properties.
•Change the “Startup Type” to “disabled”.
•Superfetchis designed to open your frequently used programs more quickly. However, this technique doesn’t speed up an Intel SSD’s performance significantly and can ultimately have a negative effect on the performance of the drive. Superfetchis not a feature on Microsoft Windows XP.


Lets talk logic for a minute and I will include a few other things if that is ok. I will speak with respect to Duperfetch, Prefetch, Page File and Indexing. There is absolutely no data whatsoever that can show that they do anything whatsoever with respect to our newer ssds, newer being from the release of the intel that you have.

I understand that many will jump in here and thats what makes a good debate but the truth is I have had all of these shut off since 2007 in my system and have never, not even once, had even a smallest problem. I can state quite honestly that I am as close to a power user as you will find and can give examples of which I speak.

If you have 4Gb RAM in Win7 and you shut all of these off, do me a favour ok? Start 50 instances of any mixed programs including a browser, email, movies, pictures and on and on...your choosing. Once all 50 are started, take a look at your resource monitor on the left and then tell me how much RAM you have available...with Pagefile shut down. I would bet around 50% still.

We can argue that Pagefile speeds up your system but actually RAM is forced to be used to its potential only when Pagefile is shut down. The seek time of a SSD is .1ms. Regardless of what kind of snake oil anyone tries to sell you, you are not beating that. You cannot improve on it.

Hope this helps and I truly hope I never ruffled too many feathers as I only come here to assist and believe all angles of every argument should be explored. Three years ago, people wanted to lynch me for stating that Pagefile was useless and today...well look how far we have come. the world isn't flat
 

Voo

Golden Member
Feb 27, 2009
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76
We really had this discussion several times already..

I'll try to recap it as neutral as possible:
Superfetch:
Off: Intel and MS recommend it, but without stating technical reasons why, SSDs fast enough so the difference is negligible.
On: Lots of RAM that's unused, sequential read still faster than random read, RAM still an order of magnitude faster than a SSD, no reason why reading some data from the SSD should harm it

Pagefile:
Off: You don't actually run out of RAM anymore most of the time, so it's just wasted space, if you get a BSOD because of it, you can always turn it on again, but it'll probably never happen
On: Some (old and horribly written) applications try to use the pagefile anyhow, a small 200mb large file that will expand if necessary doesn't cost much space (and can be on a slow HDD) and is safer. Also the scheduler can write modified data on the pagefile and use the RAM for something more useful

Indexing:
Uh do whatever you want - RAM is an order of magnitude faster than a SSD, but if the SSD is already fast enough that's uninteresting. Personally I just let it on default (which should be on iirc), why bother
 

wpcoe

Senior member
Nov 13, 2007
586
2
81
LOL Yes very lengthy, and entertaining. But I can save you some time... just turn Superfetch back on.
Agree. Superfetch is good. Indexing is a service that you may or may not ever really use. I keep Indexing off (XP Pro, Vista, and 7). It would only be a plus if I did searches. That is something I almost never do. And, if it slows down the search process by being off, so be it.
Thanks for your input, both of you. I highly respect your opinions, so have turned Superfetch back on. (Not that I've noticed any slowness with it set to Manual -- i.e. not started.)

I keep Windows Indexing turned on, as I often use the <Win-key+text string> to find things. e.g. <Win-key+services> or <Win-key+computer management>. I type quickly, and prefer keyboard shortcuts. (By Win-key, I mean the "Windows Key" between the <Ctrl> and <Alt> keys)

To find files, however, I use a utility called Search Everything. It's an amazingly fast search utility, and uses very few system resources. And, it's free. I have an entry in Task Scheduler to load it shortly after log-on.
 
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rolodomo

Senior member
Mar 19, 2004
269
9
81
We really had this discussion several times already..

I'll try to recap it as neutral as possible:
Superfetch:
Off: Intel and MS recommend it, but without stating technical reasons why, SSDs fast enough so the difference is negligible.
On: Lots of RAM that's unused, sequential read still faster than random read, RAM still an order of magnitude faster than a SSD, no reason why reading some data from the SSD should harm it

Yep, the SSD "voice of authority" Intel prominently recommended superfetch off in their toolbox. So when someone asks me, I say "turn it off." For my rig however, Intel's a*s covering won't do. I go against the grain. I actually get killed on a game level and reload the same level multiple times. I also tend to re-load programs on the desktop rather than keep dozens of windows open. In these situations, my DDR3, triple channel, cas 5, Mushkin redline smokes my X-25 G2 Raid 0 array. I can plainly see it. If I'm loading a game level from RAM, it will load instantly. If I'm loading from a SSD, it will load quickly, but not instantly. Repeat this a dozen times during a normal session and I'll believe my lying eyes, thank you very much Intel.
 

extra

Golden Member
Dec 18, 1999
1,947
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I keep indexing off, etc, but I don't see any reason to ever turn off superfetch in windows 7. Reading from the SSD doesn't hurt anything!
 

InterfaceMan

Member
Aug 26, 2010
28
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Thank you folks... educational and even more confused. My SSD with win7 used to boot in 14 sec. After changing those parameters... It took almost 1 min. After changing it back based on the aadvice, now it takes around 27-30 sec. I am not worried about the boot time even though I spend $$$ for SSD, but I want to make sure that SSD perormance is not affected by changing things.

Thank you agian everyone for your advice and help. Truely appreciated.................
 

Voo

Golden Member
Feb 27, 2009
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Thank you folks... educational and even more confused. My SSD with win7 used to boot in 14 sec. After changing those parameters... It took almost 1 min.
Well the first time after changing settings may take longer depending on what has to be done at restart (some writes that have to be flushed or whatever), I would try that more often and take the average.

Otherwise you could look if those two services have a delayed startup, that way you'll get most of the advantages without them prolonging the startup (could be that it's already the default no idea)
 

Mwing

Senior member
Sep 29, 2001
294
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76
after reading it, i let intel toolbox to disable superfetch (win 7 pro x64), then i want to enable it again under "services" to see the difference but the service cannot start:

Error 2: The system cannot find the file specified

why is that? intel toolbox deleted the required file?
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
Off: Intel and MS recommend it, but without stating technical reasons why, SSDs fast enough so the difference is negligible.
On: Lots of RAM that's unused, sequential read still faster than random read, RAM still an order of magnitude faster than a SSD, no reason why reading some data from the SSD should harm it

Well...

Reading from this:
Will Superfetch be disabled on SSDs?
Yes, for most systems with SSDs.
If the system disk is an SSD, and the SSD performs adequately on random reads and doesn&#8217;t have glaring performance issues with random writes or flushes, then Superfetch, boot prefetching, application launch prefetching, ReadyBoost and ReadDrive will all be disabled.
Initially, we had configured all of these features to be off on all SSDs, but we encountered sizable performance regressions on some systems. In root causing those regressions, we found that some first generation SSDs had severe enough random write and flush problems that ultimately lead to disk reads being blocked for long periods of time. With Superfetch and other prefetching re-enabled, performance on key scenarios was markedly improved.
I would say it clearly states that:
Off: Intel recommends; microsoft SAID that this WILL be the default state (before win7 release), BUT they benchmarked it and caused massive performance loss, notice they say that if it performs adequently... aka, they actually perform some test (I know for a fact that readyboost will refuse to run on thumb drives that are too slow, it actually performs a write test and decides whether to run or not).
On: The actual default state from MS; also everything rolodomo said.

it is possible that MS created a generic system of tests that mis-characterizes the intel drive, therefore MS is wrong. It is also possible that intel is wrong on this one... ESPECIALLY because a lot of people own both spindle drives AND an SSD... so by disabling super fetch it loses the ability to cache from the spindle drive to the ram.
 
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Voo

Golden Member
Feb 27, 2009
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I would say it clearly states that:
Well MS clearly states that the problems they encountered where with first gen SSDs, aka those Micron drives with horrible lags. No wonder that you don't want to depend on a drive that has up to 1 1/2seconds lag, but for the other drives they suggest turning it off.

Well neither MS nor Intel state technical reasons for it and I don't see any either, so I'm with the "turn it on" crowd, but it'd be interesting to hear from Intel on the matter.
 

Mwing

Senior member
Sep 29, 2001
294
0
76
my boot up time with superfetch enabled on my toshiba r700 with x25-m is 26 sec from toshiba splash screen to desktop loaded

disable superfetch brought that to 28 sec
 

kajima

Junior Member
Nov 6, 2010
5
0
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I encounter the same issue.
Win 7 32bit installed on Intel SSD 160GB2GC.
I almost confirm that this problem happen when I optimize the system byIntel SSD Toolbox .
By Intel's advice, users who have Win 7 on Intel series SSD, needn't the Superfetch service of the operating system.
So I suppose it erases my Superfetch by deleting any file(s) or disable any registry key.
 

tweakboy

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2010
9,517
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www.hammiestudios.com
If you dont do searches left and right disable Windows Search ,, Indexing.

Keep prefretch on as it improves the startup of a app...

Also use readyboost with one of your thumb drives.. that speeds up cache and boosts apps launch as well and usage overall. thx gl,
 

Diogenes2

Platinum Member
Jul 26, 2001
2,151
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Those two second delays can really add up over the years.. Keep them to a minimum ..
 

Makaveli

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2002
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1,561
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If you dont do searches left and right disable Windows Search ,, Indexing.

Keep prefretch on as it improves the startup of a app...

Also use readyboost with one of your thumb drives.. that speeds up cache and boosts apps launch as well and usage overall. thx gl,

The only people that should be using readyboost are those with low system ram.

On a machine with 4GB's or more do you really see a benefit to using it ?
 

LokutusofBorg

Golden Member
Mar 20, 2001
1,065
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Clean install win7 - done.
Don't mess with it otherwise!
This forum needs an auto-reply bot that detects all SSD optimization threads, and replies with this and then locks the thread. If you're putting an SSD in a system that needs "optimizations" then you should have spent the money on a guts (CPU/RAM/Mobo) upgrade instead. There is no need to mess with your SSD if you're running Win7. If you're running a version of Windows other than Win7 you should be shot at this point in time. ;)
 

tweakboy

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2010
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www.hammiestudios.com
Makelvi Ive heard readyboost has nothing to do with how much RAM you have,, no matter what you have you use it cuz it doesnt act just as RAM it acts as a cache barrier it does something no matter how much ram you have...... I can see my RALLY 2 lights orange lights going and going as its working and I have 8GB RAM, soo the thumb drive is being used ... its a file in there called readyboost , its caching,, u use it no matter how much ram you have.