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Supercommittee Discussion

O

OneOfTheseDays

Diamond Member
At this point I'd say it's in the Democrats best interest to simply let the super-committee fail. Here's why.

Automatic DEEP cuts, far more substantive than any Republican plan to date, to defense spending. Bush tax cuts set to expire in 2013. Yes there are going to have to be significant cuts to many programs Democrats love, but at the end of the day I think they'll swallow it if it means the end of the Bush tax cuts and serious cuts to defense spending.

I think the Republicans are starting to realize this just now. They played a tough game of poker during the debt ceiling discussions, which ultimately got them the better end of the deal. But now, they don't really have the cards to be playing that same game of poker. The Democrats do this time around, and they know it.

Furthermore, on key tax reform issues the Democrats have the support of the majority of Americans. Poll after poll conclusively states that Americans support an increase in income taxes on the wealthy and cuts to our defense spending (including bringing our troops home from Afghanistan/Iraq). As bad as Obama's poll numbers look now, I think the Democrats are putting themselves in a position to completely route the '12 elections. The Republicans simply cannot defend their corporate welfare positions anymore with the economy in such dire straits, they've boxed themselves into a corner with no way out.
 
I've felt this way pretty much since they started. Thing is, if I understand correctly, they only need 1 Democrat, and some of them are pretty iffy.
 
Easy way out for politicians. While it may hurt defense, it will also force a true awakening that if they do not work to equalize pain and stop bickering the public will retaliate.
 
Considering every worthwhile economist says we have to raise taxes and none of these people will be willing to actually do that, it seems pretty much destined to fail.
 
The committes failure will further divide the country. That is the real concern IMO. That being said, I'm confident the commitee will stike a deal that makes concessions to each side.

We have a lot of real big problems to face and are going to need to bring eachother together to effectively deal with them. The politicians aren't alone in this task.
 
The impact on the defense budget is very bad for the country. The DOD is already obligated to major cuts, anything more would create a shock syndrome with negative consequences.
 
cwjerome said:
The impact on the defense budget is very bad for the country. The DOD is already obligated to major cuts, anything more would create a shock syndrome with negative consequences.
Click to expand...

No it really wouldn't.

We live in a much different world today. We have enough nukes to blow the world up many times over. We don't need large standing armies anymore, our main enemies these days are guerrilla terrorists. Does it really make sense for us to be wasting billions on new helicopters and missiles, when that money could be better spent on education and infrastructure? I think not.

Defense spending needs to go down, way down.
 
cwjerome said:
The impact on the defense budget is very bad for the country. The DOD is already obligated to major cuts, anything more would create a shock syndrome with negative consequences.
Click to expand...

LOL. The defense budget has skyrocketed from already excessive levels while the need has gone down. It's military-industrial-congressional complex welfare and political corruption.
 
Let supercommittee fail and let Bush tax cuts expire. The do nothing Congress should just do what it does best in this case.
 
cwjerome said:
The impact on the defense budget is very bad for the country. The DOD is already obligated to major cuts, anything more would create a shock syndrome with negative consequences.
Click to expand...

Ahahahaha! We have 40-48% of the entire world's military budget.. we are surrounded by 2 huge oceans, 1 peaceful country and one weak country... We do NOT need military bases around the world, or to occupy foreign countries or to spend 10s of billions on aircraft we will never use. Gut it by 80%.

We have 300 million and spend 40% while china has over 1 billion and spends 9%.
 
OneOfTheseDays said:
At this point I'd say it's in the Democrats best interest to simply let the super-committee fail. Here's why.

Automatic DEEP cuts, far more substantive than any Republican plan to date, to defense spending. Bush tax cuts set to expire in 2013. Yes there are going to have to be significant cuts to many programs Democrats love, but at the end of the day I think they'll swallow it if it means the end of the Bush tax cuts and serious cuts to defense spending.

I think the Republicans are starting to realize this just now. They played a tough game of poker during the debt ceiling discussions, which ultimately got them the better end of the deal. But now, they don't really have the cards to be playing that same game of poker. The Democrats do this time around, and they know it.

Furthermore, on key tax reform issues the Democrats have the support of the majority of Americans. Poll after poll conclusively states that Americans support an increase in income taxes on the wealthy and cuts to our defense spending (including bringing our troops home from Afghanistan/Iraq). As bad as Obama's poll numbers look now, I think the Democrats are putting themselves in a position to completely route the '12 elections. The Republicans simply cannot defend their corporate welfare positions anymore with the economy in such dire straits, they've boxed themselves into a corner with no way out.
Click to expand...

That's how I feel too. And your bit about approval rating is nothing, it's amazing to me with unemployment hovering around 9-10% Obama will most likely win since people vote wallets.
 
Craig234 said:
LOL. The defense budget has skyrocketed from already excessive levels while the need has gone down. It's military-industrial-congressional complex welfare and political corruption.
Click to expand...

Half true. I was listening to NPR and this guy from Janes was on saying 46% of increase last 10 years is salaries alone and no one, not even Dems will touch our service persons pay so we're kinda fucked there.
 
Personally I'm all for the defense cuts. Maybe then our politicians will think twice about fighting three wars at a time.
 
Carmen813 said:
Personally I'm all for the defense cuts. Maybe then our politicians will think twice about fighting three wars at a time.
Click to expand...

Amen.

I feel like we ALL need to start banding together on things we can agree on. Our current politicians are NOT serving us anymore, we cannot continue to be divided while our country crumbles.
 
OneOfTheseDays said:
I feel like we ALL need to start banding together on things we can agree on. Our current politicians are NOT serving us anymore, we cannot continue to be divided while our country crumbles.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

The increasing levels of D vs. R partisan bullshit seems to actually help the politicians interests, rather than the public if you think about. People bicker over the wedge issues distracting themselves while DC goes on with business as usual. And they no that no matter what they do the hard core partisans will support them no matter what, because the other side is evil.

Why someone would think any one party or ideology has a monopoly on good ideas and sound policy boggles my mind.

Get all money but individual donations out of politics!
 
OneOfTheseDays said:
Automatic DEEP cuts, far more substantive than any Republican plan to date, to defense spending. Bush tax cuts set to expire in 2013. Yes there are going to have to be significant cuts to many programs Democrats love, but at the end of the day I think they'll swallow it if it means the end of the Bush tax cuts and serious cuts to defense spending.
Click to expand...

The GOP bungled this by agreeing to the these automatic cuts back in August. Those automatic cuts are what they were negotiating about in the last 12 hours when everyone was biting their nails. The dems have been holding the cards since the conclusion of that deal. Not a lot of people recognized it at the time, but it seemed pretty obvious to me that Obama cut shrewd deal - a huge defense cut hammer and the Bush cuts expiring. A lot of the liberal outrage at the time wasn't warranted. Looks we're going to get a tax increase, heavy defense cuts, and no entitlement cuts. Just some cuts to discretionary spending.
 
woolfe9999 said:
The GOP bungled this by agreeing to the these automatic cuts back in August. Those automatic cuts are what they were negotiating about in the last 12 hours when everyone was biting their nails. The dems have been holding the cards since the conclusion of that deal. Not a lot of people recognized it at the time, but it seemed pretty obvious to me that Obama cut shrewd deal - a huge defense cut hammer and the Bush cuts expiring. A lot of the liberal outrage at the time wasn't warranted. Looks we're going to get a tax increase, heavy defense cuts, and no entitlement cuts. Just some cuts to discretionary spending.
Click to expand...

Discretionary spending cuts are fine with me in an economy like this. We need to redirect money to our most important programs right now. Invest in education and infrastructure, you simply cannot go wrong.

We will need to tackle healthcare in the long run though. As a nation we need to eradicate employer based health care once and for all. Either we embrace universal healthcare, or we move to a truly free market system. We need to make that decision and then act accordingly.
 
Zebo said:
Half true. I was listening to NPR and this guy from Janes was on saying 46% of increase last 10 years is salaries alone and no one, not even Dems will touch our service persons pay so we're kinda fucked there.
Click to expand...

Get a link - the only extent to which there's a big increase in the military budget from pay might be the increases in numbers for the wars.
 
We'll see what happens. Though I feel it might be shortsighted to de-fund defense in terms of future war technology, I definitely think there's a TON of fat that can be trimmed at present, even if we as a nation decide to continue the Afghanistan clusterfuck.
 
the DRIZZLE said:
Simply untrue. Defense spending as a percent of GDP is much lower than it's been for most of the last 50 years.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_qve2Ds-cM...+spending+as+a+percent+of+gdp+1949+-+2009.gif


Sorry to let numbers get in the way your partisan crap.
Click to expand...

You really think military expenditures should be based on our GDP?

Not on rational numbers, like the federal governments income?

With no rival superpowers, why would we need to be in an arms race with no one?
 
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