Sun oddly quiet - hints at "Little Ice Age"?

[dainthomas]

Originally posted by: Grabo

Originally posted by: dainthomas


Is GW happening? Yes, although very slightly (~1 degree C in 150 years). Is it caused by increased CO2? Nobody knows, and anyone who says they do know has an agenda.

http://climate.jpl.nasa.gov/evidence/:

"Certain facts about Earth's climate are not in dispute: * The heat-trapping nature of carbon dioxide and other gases was demonstrated in the mid-19th century. Their ability to affect the transfer of infrared energy through the atmosphere is the scientific basis of many JPL-designed instruments, such as AIRS. Increased levels of greenhouse gases must cause the Earth to warm in response."

The amount of atmospheric co2 has been on the rise since the industrial revolution.
It's currently at around 390ppm, whereas it hasn't been above 300 for the last 650k years.

Yes, it has changed rapidly before, and likely been a lot higher a longer time ago, but humans weren't around then to help cause it or suffer from it.

I know NASA and alot of other totally untrustworthy organizations believe they know a thing or two, but I'd better believe everything is a political agenda and only believe what I can see.

Maybe that's all a hoax to make AlGore, the institution, the man, one rich bastard?
Maybe the cows' flatulence has changed radically lately?
Maybe it's another greenhouse gas: water vapour! From goats!

I'm sure most of your reply was sarcastic. The fact is I agreed that earth had warmed and even provided a source saying how much. I also agree CO2 concentration has increased. Have any other gases been on the rise? Methane has increased 250% from preindustrial levels vs CO2s 36%. Would we be better served by selling "methane credits" or talking about "cow fart footprints"?

Or maybe none of it will matter and one of the millions of other factors influencing climate will eventually offset the slight effects of anthropogenic increases in these gases. Changes in solar output, increased cloud cover, increased aerosol concentration, changes in earth's tilt, variations in earth's orbit etc etc etc. You don't know, because nobody knows.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: XMan
From National Geographic:

http://news.nationalgeographic...un-global-cooling.html

Interesting article. Anecdotally this has been one of the cooler springs around here that I can remember. We even had snow in early April.

The world has been setting record cold and snow records for the past two-three years now. It is good to see those again after such a strong solar cycle.

Tell that to the areas of earth are MELTING .. smartass.... stubborn people like you help destroy everything about this world

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=antarctic+ice+shelf+melting

Care to explain how the Earth came out of the last ice age when ice perpetually covered North America all the way south to Texas? Humans didn't have cars and planes and coal burning power plants yet somehow the Earth warmed up.

You'r comments about stubborn people destroying the world, show that you are more emotionally envolved than you are factually. You believe because that's what you want to think, you don't study the evidence and make a scientific conclusion.
The Earth has gone through many many climate changes and man was not even around to "cause" them, but somehow we are to blame now.
While I agree that there should be some conservation or resources do to them not being finite, to think that our actions are destroying the world is outright retarded.

 

[microbial]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: XMan
From National Geographic:

http://news.nationalgeographic...un-global-cooling.html

Interesting article. Anecdotally this has been one of the cooler springs around here that I can remember. We even had snow in early April.

The world has been setting record cold and snow records for the past two-three years now. It is good to see those again after such a strong solar cycle.

Tell that to the areas of earth are MELTING .. smartass.... stubborn people like you help destroy everything about this world

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=antarctic+ice+shelf+melting

Care to explain how the Earth came out of the last ice age when ice perpetually covered North America all the way south to Texas? Humans didn't have cars and planes and coal burning power plants yet somehow the Earth warmed up.

You'r comments about stubborn people destroying the world, show that you are more emotionally envolved than you are factually. You believe because that's what you want to think, you don't study the evidence and make a scientific conclusion.
The Earth has gone through many many climate changes and man was not even around to "cause" them, but somehow we are to blame now.
While I agree that there should be some conservation or resources do to them not being finite, to think that our actions are destroying the world is outright retarded.

Here is an article that might help you. If that is possible.

http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/transit2.html

Let's let professional scientists do their research. We've had enough conservative echo-chamber armchair climate experts affect policy--these last 8 years.

Last thing I want is RushCo. doling out any more scientific misinformation.

 

[evident]

wat, we just had a 90 degree weekend a week ago.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: microbial
We've been in one for the past 20K yrs.

Bottom line climate is a complex issue. Long-term factors and short-term factors, sometimes what you get is confounding evidence. Both are valid-not an either/or exclusion.

My advice: Look at the poles. What is happening to the ice sheets is more likely to be immediately important to us.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ice/chill.html

:thumbsup:

I wonder too how much of what we're seeing is merely "noise" in the trendlines of climate.

Stick an oscilloscope on a DC line coming off of a switching power supply. It may look quite stable on a voltmeter, but the oscilloscope is likely to show lots of low-level noise. If you're the size of an few atoms and sitting on that line, it's an insanely chaotic place, even if the general trend is holding to a value with a tolerance of a few thousandths of a volt.

And there we are - sitting atop the wire of the climate, getting all in a fuss about what very well may be tiny random vibrations of noise, and we're trying to draw long-term conclusions about what's going on.
It's just unfortunate that 1) We've been able to "accurately" measure nature for such a short time, and 2) we live for such a short time. The best we can do for long term trends is ice cores and forensic evidence in nature. And then there's our very short lifespans. We rely on data from previous generations, and information is inevitably lost in the process of transcribing it to paper, and then relearning it the next generation.

All we can do is what we always strive for: The best we are able to do with the information we have. Greenhouse gases trap heat. This can be easily demonstrated in a laboratory. The question is, are we doing enough to make an impact? Unfortunately we lack an Earth in a lab environment, where we can control one variable at a time.

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Goosh I am sorry. On this pic I posted . link article. I said Helix was cool and unexplainable . But notice again lower Big Object with small oblejts around it. Please click on picture take a real look. Is that not a Pentagon with 12 stars around it. I do believe it is. LOL . What the hell! Its scary but this shit is getting exciting also .

That pattern is almost certainly the result of interference effect in the optics of the camera. Next you'll be telling us that lens flare has some special meaning.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
The sun is a very strange thing . As I see it. I was looking at videos of sun and sun spots.
Than one very strange thing happened A metor came into view. So it was large. It didn't look like the object was going to hit sun but close flyby. Than suddenly a beam shot out from sun and deflected it on new path . I was stunned.

Many strange things going on right now . Scientist are talking about it. Just have to put right words in google.

In 2012 we enter the eliptic of the milky way. At this point is a very narrow very strong gama rays coming from the Black hole in our galaxy center. Read about it. Strange the sun would enter a silent mode just before the storm. I don't know what those gama rays will do but I don't agree with what many scientist think or say. No logic to it. They say intense heat and earth Burning. I call Bs scare tactic. It happens 1 every 26,000 years. The earth hasn't burnt up ever or the earth records would show. I think You might want to be in a area that corresponsed to the earths lay lines. The new ones . As the old lay lines the ones we have now won't be valid this time. I think as we near 2012 more scare tactics will be told to us. They will convince many by exposing past conspirecy but it only a trick.

I plan on being on zenieth at crossing . If nothing else it be quik death. But those who have hidden our true past history will not Be were they need to be. SO sad.

Ya what I said above sounds crazy nuts. Thats the point . Find out what scientist are talking about strange things going on in our Sun system. Very strange. Stranger than what I said above. Find out what object just suddenly appeared in are Galaxy Its massive its un explainable and its exciting . DNA?! HUGE millions of miles across. So sun going cold is a small freaken thing compared to whats happening.

Links.... dood, links.

 

[Vic]

The OP's argument is as logical as when the MMGW alarmists would freak out over a hot summer.

Cycles, people, cycles. The universe appears in waves through time. For humans, existing within our own timeframe, the problem is often seeing things which exist in difference timeframes. IOW, some things oscillate in wavelengths not easily perceived.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Vic
The OP's argument is as logical as when the MMGW alarmists would freak out over a hot summer.

Cycles, people, cycles. The universe appears in waves through time. For humans, existing within our own timeframe, the problem is often seeing things which exist in difference timeframes. IOW, some things oscillate in wavelengths not easily perceived.

I think that is the ops point, we dont know enough to maky any kind of prediction

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Originally posted by: microbial
Here is an article that might help you. If that is possible.

http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/transit2.html

Let's let professional scientists do their research. We've had enough conservative echo-chamber armchair climate experts affect policy--these last 8 years.

Last thing I want is RushCo. doling out any more scientific misinformation.

And what are we to conclude from the paper you linked?

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: Carmen813
"I think you have to bear in mind that the CO2 is a good 50 to 60 percent higher than normal, whereas the decline in solar output is a few hundredths of one percent down," Lockwood said. "I think that helps keep it in perspective."

"We don't know the sensitivity of the climate to changes in solar intensity."

Does "Winter" and "Summer" give you any clue?? Ya' know solar intensity and its' effects on climate:roll:??

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: dainthomas

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: XMan
From National Geographic:

http://news.nationalgeographic...un-global-cooling.html

Interesting article. Anecdotally this has been one of the cooler springs around here that I can remember. We even had snow in early April.

The world has been setting record cold and snow records for the past two-three years now. It is good to see those again after such a strong solar cycle.

Tell that to the areas of earth are MELTING .. smartass.... stubborn people like you help destroy everything about this world

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=antarctic+ice+shelf+melting

Somebody call the press, antartic ice shelfs melting during its summer.

But it's been there FOREVER!!!1111!!!!1!!!!

Or, like, a hundred years or something.

Is GW happening? Yes, although very slightly (~1 degree C in 150 years). Is it caused by increased CO2? Nobody knows, and anyone who says they do know has an agenda.

An agenda like what?? Continued human civilization?:laugh:

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: Carmen813
"I think you have to bear in mind that the CO2 is a good 50 to 60 percent higher than normal, whereas the decline in solar output is a few hundredths of one percent down," Lockwood said. "I think that helps keep it in perspective."

"We don't know the sensitivity of the climate to changes in solar intensity."

Does "Winter" and "Summer" give you any clue?? Ya' know solar intensity and its' effects on climate:roll:??

Wow...sorry to expose your abject ignorance, but me thinks that you're the clueless one here. Carmen813 quoted a portion of the article linked in the OP and I responded with a quote from the same article. If you have a problem with the scientific fact that we don't know the sensitivity of the climate to changes in solar intensity...then I suggest that you might want to keep your 'thoughts' to yourself in order to avoid future public embarassment.

 

[dainthomas]

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM

Originally posted by: dainthomas

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: XMan
From National Geographic:

http://news.nationalgeographic...un-global-cooling.html

Interesting article. Anecdotally this has been one of the cooler springs around here that I can remember. We even had snow in early April.

The world has been setting record cold and snow records for the past two-three years now. It is good to see those again after such a strong solar cycle.

Tell that to the areas of earth are MELTING .. smartass.... stubborn people like you help destroy everything about this world

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=antarctic+ice+shelf+melting

Somebody call the press, antartic ice shelfs melting during its summer.

But it's been there FOREVER!!!1111!!!!1!!!!

Or, like, a hundred years or something.

Is GW happening? Yes, although very slightly (~1 degree C in 150 years). Is it caused by increased CO2? Nobody knows, and anyone who says they do know has an agenda.

An agenda like what?? Continued human civilization?:laugh:

So an ice shelf that's only been around for a hundred years melts during the summer, and that heralds the imminent demise of civilization?

As I've said before, the earth is warming (a little). Methane and C02 tend to trap heat. I agree with both of these statements. HOWEVER, is the increase in these gases the sole (or even primary) cause of this increase? There are SO many variables influencing climate, some we don't even likely know about, that no one knows for sure.

Reducing air pollution is a worthy goal for a whole host of reasons, I don't understand why people feel the need to latch onto some dubious global destruction scenario in an attempt to sway people to their point of view.

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: Carmen813
"I think you have to bear in mind that the CO2 is a good 50 to 60 percent higher than normal, whereas the decline in solar output is a few hundredths of one percent down," Lockwood said. "I think that helps keep it in perspective."

"We don't know the sensitivity of the climate to changes in solar intensity."

Does "Winter" and "Summer" give you any clue?? Ya' know solar intensity and its' effects on climate:roll:??

You know...if the sun ever starts to grow as it prepares to nova, we will experience the clear effects of that event.

 

[MovingTarget]

I hate to burst the bubble here, but it is entirely possible that this solar minimum will be ending soon, making the discussion somewhat moot. We cannot control the sun, but we can control how we as a civilization affect our own atmosphere.

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/05/solarcycle/

 

[Shortass]

Originally posted by: dainthomas

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM

Originally posted by: dainthomas

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: XMan
From National Geographic:

http://news.nationalgeographic...un-global-cooling.html

Interesting article. Anecdotally this has been one of the cooler springs around here that I can remember. We even had snow in early April.

The world has been setting record cold and snow records for the past two-three years now. It is good to see those again after such a strong solar cycle.

Tell that to the areas of earth are MELTING .. smartass.... stubborn people like you help destroy everything about this world

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=antarctic+ice+shelf+melting

Somebody call the press, antartic ice shelfs melting during its summer.

But it's been there FOREVER!!!1111!!!!1!!!!

Or, like, a hundred years or something.

Is GW happening? Yes, although very slightly (~1 degree C in 150 years). Is it caused by increased CO2? Nobody knows, and anyone who says they do know has an agenda.

An agenda like what?? Continued human civilization?:laugh:

Reducing air pollution is a worthy goal for a whole host of reasons, I don't understand why people feel the need to latch onto some dubious global destruction scenario in an attempt to sway people to their point of view.

I've been thinking about this a lot recently and what I've come up with is that it's sensational news and people who don't give a shit about saving 20% on electricity bills need the threat of global destruction to get them to change out their light bulbs or recycle. It's easy to change people's minds when the survival of humanity is at risk; it's far harder to convince people that by switching to clean fuel or integrated waste streams or organic produce that quality of life will be better and we may see a reduction in cancer rates and other such issues. Since you get to the same solutions through both methods, why not go with the dumb version to motivate more people?

That's really the only thing I can think of, as there are dozens of better reasons to go 'green'. It's pretty frustrating honestly.

 

[microbial]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: microbial
Here is an article that might help you. If that is possible.

http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/transit2.html

Let's let professional scientists do their research. We've had enough conservative echo-chamber armchair climate experts affect policy--these last 8 years.

Last thing I want is RushCo. doling out any more scientific misinformation.

And what are we to conclude from the paper you linked?

The link was meant to help explain to the poster that ask the question about explaining ice age oscillation.

Cold-warm oscillations are fairly well understood, and as the OP maybe meant to allude to--eventually the earth will cool down, and then warm up...probably over and over...so this article talks about that.

So saying that the earth will eventually cool down is a safe bet, no big prediction. It's just a matter of a geologic time scale.

The irony here is that the sun's activity--if it has decreased the last few decades--as in the OP story, really makes a great argument and furthers evidence that our global warming (atmospheric temperature and sea temperature) is caused by man's activities.

Logically, if you have some natural phenomena that would induce global cool-down occurring, and yet there is an overall increase in temperature, plus ice melts---that is pretty strong circumstantial evidence that human activities are artificially raising temps.

 

[GoPackGo]

Its also clear at one point in time this planet was so warm and humid that giant monster lizards(lots of scary monster lizards) lived here.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Its also clear at one point in time this planet was so warm and humid that giant monster lizards(lots of scary monster lizards) lived here.

Yeah but that happened because a lot of smaller lizards years earlier drove cars.

 

[Carmen813]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: Carmen813
"I think you have to bear in mind that the CO2 is a good 50 to 60 percent higher than normal, whereas the decline in solar output is a few hundredths of one percent down," Lockwood said. "I think that helps keep it in perspective."

"We don't know the sensitivity of the climate to changes in solar intensity."

Does "Winter" and "Summer" give you any clue?? Ya' know solar intensity and its' effects on climate:roll:??

Wow...sorry to expose your abject ignorance, but me thinks that you're the clueless one here. Carmen813 quoted a portion of the article linked in the OP and I responded with a quote from the same article. If you have a problem with the scientific fact that we don't know the sensitivity of the climate to changes in solar intensity...then I suggest that you might want to keep your 'thoughts' to yourself in order to avoid future public embarassment.

My personal feeling on the importance of solar intensity vs. impact of carbon dioxide can probably be summed up comparing the surface temperature of Mercury with that of Venus.

 

[Atheus]

It amazes my how much effort right wingers put into opposing things like climate science. It's got to be the most innocent and harmless academic pursuit imaginable.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Its also clear at one point in time this planet was so warm and humid that giant monster lizards(lots of scary monster lizards) lived here.

Yeah but that happened because a lot of smaller lizards years earlier drove cars.

No, they drove SUVs

 

[Nemesis 1]

I recently sent my son to see this in action to make sure it was real . It is and I invested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI5jtx0IFgQ

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: Carmen813
"I think you have to bear in mind that the CO2 is a good 50 to 60 percent higher than normal, whereas the decline in solar output is a few hundredths of one percent down," Lockwood said. "I think that helps keep it in perspective."

"We don't know the sensitivity of the climate to changes in solar intensity."

Does "Winter" and "Summer" give you any clue?? Ya' know solar intensity and its' effects on climate:roll:??

You know...if the sun ever starts to grow as it prepares to nova, we will experience the clear effects of that event.

No, no, OUR sun will expand (ten billion or more years from now) in its' future RED GIANT phase out past Mars orbit, then in a few million years contract into a White Dwarf slowly cooling until the final heat death of our universe.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: Carmen813
"I think you have to bear in mind that the CO2 is a good 50 to 60 percent higher than normal, whereas the decline in solar output is a few hundredths of one percent down," Lockwood said. "I think that helps keep it in perspective."

"We don't know the sensitivity of the climate to changes in solar intensity."

Does "Winter" and "Summer" give you any clue?? Ya' know solar intensity and its' effects on climate:roll:??

Wow...sorry to expose your abject ignorance, but me thinks that you're the clueless one here. Carmen813 quoted a portion of the article linked in the OP and I responded with a quote from the same article. If you have a problem with the scientific fact that we don't know the sensitivity of the climate to changes in solar intensity...then I suggest that you might want to keep your 'thoughts' to yourself in order to avoid future public embarassment.

I read the article too. What you quoted is crap. "CLIMATE" change happens every year and we can measure the exact amount of solar energy involved in the changes.