Sullivan Generator: extracting gold from sea water

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Spacehead

Lifer
Jun 2, 2002
13,067
9,858
136

K7SN

Senior member
Jun 21, 2015
353
0
0
Most of them? There's a lot of animals in the ocean, and dicking around with the chemical composition of their environment on an industrial scale is sure to mess something up. Stuff like mercury and cadmium are probably ok, but then we'd be stuck with a bunch of mercury and cadmium.

The point is if we could remove the minerals and salts from the seawater profitably we could solve the "impending" freshwater depletion in areas (like California if the drought continues) and ecologically slight reduce our desecration of the land for minerals and ever decreasing reserves of fossil fuels. A melting glacier in Alaska changes the composition of seawater much more than this exercise in prognostication of the future could ever do. Our use of fossil fuels is "dicking around with the chemical composition" far greater than extracting a billion tons of minerals from the ocean.

mikeford wrote about global warming. Yes it ties in greatly to are changing global weather, especially rain or lack of it. sd8fox removing NaCL and banking it in Texas or the Sahara desert doesn't make sense but just as NUSNA_Moebius correctly pondered that we can't make a dent in the quantity of crap like mercury we have added to the ocean. Extracting freshwater from Seawater would not make a dent in the salinity or needed elements for ocean habitats but it might avoid the often predicted "water wars" as a 1/4 of the human population of the earth gets thirsty. My point is gold in seawater is not the solution or viable by itself but mineral extraction by retaining needed resources and flushing the rest (including the NaCL) back into the ocean would help the future environment. dud if it takes a cubic mile of seawater to get $4,500 in gold you won't make a dent in gold markets but lithium (Only so many dry lakes) markets would change and Molybdenum (for steel and other uses) or Galena (Bless the transistor) definitely would change as the history and price of aluminum and steel (Thanks to Bessemer) as Jeff7 noted what happened in the 19th century. This is all pondering about future technology as our knowledge of physics advances. I can image sometime in the future a cadre of nanobots herding NaCl, mercury, cadmium and other impurities (in seawater) back into a return to the ocean while other nanobots herd Gold, Silver, Molybdenum, lithium, galena and useful minerals to a extract vat and allowing the remaining (now freshwater) to be pumped to a thirsty Bangladesh. An conservationist can always dream. I can image some sort of energy (perhaps various frequency lasers) separating the same minerals and salts from seawater, I can dream of a better future BUT as a craftsman 2,000 years ago dreamed someday that it won't take a week of hard labor to make a single sword, I can ponder about a better future for our Earth.
 
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subhajit_waugh

Junior Member
Aug 9, 2017
3
0
1
Sea water contains about 0.1-2 mg/tonne of gold dissolved in water (average 1 mg/tonne). But considering the amount of seawater available, it is a really huge goldmine! Theoretically fine, but problems were practical (which prevented profitable extraction till now). This can however become possible with the old electrolysis technique, with the only difference that the voltage difference between the electrodes must be maintained slightly less than the minimum potential difference required for electrolysis of water (yes, there is a minimum pot. difference, say 1.48 volts, below which water won't be hydrolyzed. But since gold lies below hydrogen in electrochemical series, it will get deposited on the cathode!). Since it is impractical to pump millions of gallons of water, it is more practical to move the electrodes over vast regions of oceans. This process can be made much more profitable by another simple process (which I explain later).

With a slight modification, the propellers of ships can be designed to form the electrodes! Each of the 3 blades will be a stack of 3 blades (like a sandwich) with the sandwiched blade maintained +ve and the other two forming cathode (of course they won't be touching each other. There will be a gap of a few cm between each blade, supported by rubber/cork). The tilt of each blades will be much less than conventional propeller, so that it makes much more revolution per advancement, and hence scan the volume of water more effectively. It is practical to make each blade 1.7 meter in length, so that cross sectional area of circle formed on revolution of blades will be 10 meter square. This will scan 10 tonne of water per 1 meter moved by the ship. Considering that efficiency of extraction is only 0.1 mg/tonne, it comes to 1 mg/meter of distance covered (or 1 gram per k.m. or 1 k.g gold per 1000 k.m.) So, this may not be profitable if ship is designed only for gold hunt. But it can be a real bonus for commercial ships which has to cover thousands of k.m. anyway.

This process can be made much more profitable by another simple process.

Consider this practical concept: there are 3 primary ways of separating U235 from U238. Forget the diffusion & centrifugal processes. 3rd method: You shine a laser light of exactly matching wavelength to selectively excite U235 (it is easy nowadays, since we wave Cu vapor laser & dye-lasers for fine tuning) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_vapor_laser_isotope_separation

PLAN: Just like a Sodium vapor lamp, or Copper vapor lamp/laser (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_vapor_laser) it is possible to make a gold vapor lamp, which will selectively excite Au ions, thus requiring even lesser voltage (I believe it will be lesser than the critical voltage which starts breaking H2O into Hydrogen & oxygen). This process/step is critical because as the concentration of ions (Au in this case) start decreasing, the voltage required to extract starts increasing. But selective excitation should help a lot. And besides, it will help to dissociate (charge) neutral covalently bonded gold-monohydroxide.

[Let me explain and elaborate about the gold vapor light. It can be built using same technique as that of a copper vapor lamp. Actually, copper vapor laser is one of the few lasers that can be home built!

Since using pure gold vapor lamp is difficult to construct, because of the extremely high temperature, necessary to create gold vapor, therefore, gold halides, like gold chloride or gold bromide or gold iodide may be substituted, since they form vapors at much lower temperatures]
 

subhajit_waugh

Junior Member
Aug 9, 2017
3
0
1
So I watched an old ep of Shark Tank and I saw this guy:

Sea water contains about 0.1-2 mg/tonne of gold dissolved in water (average 1 mg/tonne). But considering the amount of seawater available, it is a really huge goldmine! Theoretically fine, but problems were practical (which prevented profitable extraction till now). This can however become possible with the old electrolysis technique, with the only difference that the voltage difference between the electrodes must be maintained slightly less than the minimum potential difference required for electrolysis of water (yes, there is a minimum pot. difference, say 1.48 volts, below which water won't be hydrolyzed. But since gold lies below hydrogen in electrochemical series, it will get deposited on the cathode!). Since it is impractical to pump millions of gallons of water, it is more practical to move the electrodes over vast regions of oceans. This process can be made much more profitable by another simple process (which I explain later).

With a slight modification, the propellers of ships can be designed to form the electrodes! Each of the 3 blades will be a stack of 3 blades (like a sandwich) with the sandwiched blade maintained +ve and the other two forming cathode (of course they won't be touching each other. There will be a gap of a few cm between each blade, supported by rubber/cork). The tilt of each blades will be much less than conventional propeller, so that it makes much more revolution per advancement, and hence scan the volume of water more effectively. It is practical to make each blade 1.7 meter in length, so that cross sectional area of circle formed on revolution of blades will be 10 meter square. This will scan 10 tonne of water per 1 meter moved by the ship. Considering that efficiency of extraction is only 0.1 mg/tonne, it comes to 1 mg/meter of distance covered (or 1 gram per k.m. or 1 k.g gold per 1000 k.m.) So, this may not be profitable if ship is designed only for gold hunt. But it can be a real bonus for commercial ships which has to cover thousands of k.m. anyway.

This process can be made much more profitable by another simple process.

Consider this practical concept: there are 3 primary ways of separating U235 from U238. Forget the diffusion & centrifugal processes. 3rd method: You shine a laser light of exactly matching wavelength to selectively excite U235 (it is easy nowadays, since we wave Cu vapor laser & dye-lasers for fine tuning) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_vapor_laser_isotope_separation

PLAN: Just like a Sodium vapor lamp, or Copper vapor lamp/laser (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_vapor_laser) it is possible to make a gold vapor lamp, which will selectively excite Au ions, thus requiring even lesser voltage (I believe it will be lesser than the critical voltage which starts breaking H2O into Hydrogen & oxygen). This process/step is critical because as the concentration of ions (Au in this case) start decreasing, the voltage required to extract starts increasing. But selective excitation should help a lot. And besides, it will help to dissociate (charge) neutral covalently bonded gold-monohydroxide.

[Let me explain and elaborate about the gold vapor light. It can be built using same technique as that of a copper vapor lamp. Actually, copper vapor laser is one of the few lasers that can be home built!

Since using pure gold vapor lamp is difficult to construct, because of the extremely high temperature, necessary to create gold vapor, therefore, gold halides, like gold chloride or gold bromide or gold iodide may be substituted, since they form vapors at much lower temperatures]
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,332
32,876
136
AVLIS never worked well enough to bring into production. The joke in the enrichment industry was, "You'll see Elvis before you see AVLIS".
 

subhajit_waugh

Junior Member
Aug 9, 2017
3
0
1

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
If the ocean doesn't have gold in sufficient concentration, what about rivers? Every old gold-panning stream should have gold in much higher concentrations than the ocean. Even if they're all "panned out" there should still be gold in the water, right?

what gold that is floating in the ocean is specks that are far removed from the source and the currents keep afloat. the gold in rivers and creeks are bigger because they are closer to the source and dont float around like the gold specs in the ocean.
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,224
306
126
If they could find a cheap way to remove salt from sea water, we would have enough salt for the entire population of the world.

Newsflash. Salt isn't the expensive part of seawater. It's the water that would make you rich.