Suggestions please - Starting my first ever bulk.

thatsright

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May 1, 2001
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I’ve lost more weight than I ever thought possible. On June 1, 2010 I was at 267lb. Today I am @ 195lb. Initially did aerobic and changed diet and that accounted for a lot of it. Then just did weights with no aerobic for 6+ months. Because of my success and a lot of personal stuff going on, for April I took the whole month off at the gym. When I left I was just doing a mix of machines and free weights and NO aerobics.

While the ladies are starting to really notice me (awesome), I still look like I’ve only been doing aerobic for the last year. My arms definitely have noticeable definition, but all other body parts are unimpressive.

Stats: 198lb. 5’10.5” and Body fat 18-20% Current BMR is 2000 cal per day.

Diet: When I was going to the gym just to lose weight, I had my diet down pretty well. Before break, I was at 2300-2500 cal/day with high protein (250gm per/day) and lower carbs (usually 90grams or less per day). See the below for my typical diet during the week. Extremely disciplined with very little ‘cheats.’

Here is the typical diet my 'cutting' phase:
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The last two weeks at the gym, I tired the 8x8 lifting routine . It’s a rapid set with 8 reps, wait only 15 seconds before immediately going to the next set, for a rapid 8 sets for each major body part of he course of 3 days at gym. Pretty intense!! I saw more muscle gain in those 6 days total than in the last several months combined.

GOAL: Bulk up my chest and arms and I’d like to minimize my (still shrinking) spare tire/gut even more. All other body parts, I’m not so keen on bulking up at all, but I can’t just spot (right) so it will be a new full body workout. My legs have always been the most advanced part of my body, and not really looking for new muscle mass below the waist. A friend suggested starting easier with the 5x5 program for two weeks and then adjust.

Thoughts and problems: Well my body fat is a lot higher than others have assumed. It telling me 19.5% using the ‘Athlete’ setting on a Omron hand held BF measure. I think it gives me a ballpark for the % number, but know it’s not accurate. One of my ‘get fit’ mentors told me I should wait until my BF is down or below 15% before trying to start a bulking routine. I’m very happy with where my body is now, but obviously want to fill things out a bit more. I’m not trying to get on the cover of FLEX or anything to that level. I’d just like to lose as much fat around my belly as is possible and get actual muscle definition everything above my abs.

1. Should I go for another 2-4 weeks with a sane cutting program (that’s still healthy) to go down another few % points in BF and then start bulking? I’d rather not wait to start bulking.

2. I was never hungry on my ‘cutting diet’ until the last few weeks where I was always starving. While my BMR was 2000cal at the time, my body’s metabolism exploded in the last few weeks and I started getting more and more hungry. How many cals should I go to start a very targeted and limited bulking program? Go to 3500 cal per day?

3. I was doing a low carb/high protein diet before, how would this now change if at all?

This is how I look now NOT SUCKING ANYTHING IN:
i-6JtVPq6-L.jpg


i-xQnFhH4-L.jpg


i-bHv6NXD-L.jpg


i-sPVX8H8-L.jpg
 
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killster1

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Mar 15, 2007
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congrats on teh 100 pounds lost. Everyone suggested the strong lifts for me so thats what i been doing 5x5..

just cuious whats up with your cottage cheese and peanuts? seems like alot of fat for a diet.. i been eating non-fat cottage cheese and it tastes great with some pepper and meat / fruit.

Also just checked it says max daily sodium should be 2500mg. I also am going to stop eating alot of tuna and go with salmon since the mercury content but not really sure.
 
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superccs

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Dec 29, 2004
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It looks like you have a crazy high amount of protein in the diet, I would just suggest you have some protein before and after working out, otherwise all the other protein in your diet will just come out as piss or get converted in to energy. Animals don't store protein or amino acids, beyond what is immediately assimilated into their tissues.
 
Mar 22, 2002
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It looks like you have a crazy high amount of protein in the diet, I would just suggest you have some protein before and after working out, otherwise all the other protein in your diet will just come out as piss or get converted in to energy. Animals don't store protein or amino acids, beyond what is immediately assimilated into their tissues.

Amino acids don't come out as piss ever. They will all be used for protein synthesis or get converted into glucose and other products, where it will be used anyhow. The digestive system frequently reduces GI motility to maximize use of the protein source as well. I agree that he doesn't need as much protein as he's eating, but unless he has previous kidney problems, there's no detriment to it.
 
Mar 22, 2002
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congrats on teh 100 pounds lost. Everyone suggested the strong lifts for me so thats what i been doing 5x5..

just cuious whats up with your cottage cheese and peanuts? seems like alot of fat for a diet.. i been eating non-fat cottage cheese and it tastes great with some pepper and meat / fruit.

Also just checked it says max daily sodium should be 2500mg. I also am going to stop eating alot of tuna and go with salmon since the mercury content but not really sure.

Fat isn't the devil. Higher fat, lower carb diets have shown to be more effective when trying to lose weight. On top of that, peanuts are a good source of healthy fats. Cottage cheese has saturated fat, but that's fine too as long as he's not over-indulging to the extreme.

OP: Lower rep, higher weight programs will optimize your bulk. If you want the bodybuilder shape, get on a bodybuilder program. If you want to get functionally strong and still look good, use a program like Starting Strength that focuses on compound movements (no machines). 3500cal would be a good place to start. You can gauge how that's working for you after a week or two. If you're not gaining any weight, go ahead and up it 300-500cal and wait again.

Congrats on the weight loss btw. Great job.
 
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thatsright

Diamond Member
May 1, 2001
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It looks like you have a crazy high amount of protein in the diet, I would just suggest you have some protein before and after working out, otherwise all the other protein in your diet will just come out as piss or get converted in to energy. Animals don't store protein or amino acids, beyond what is immediately assimilated into their tissues.

All that u suggest is now just a good habit. And this is thanks to all of YOU. And in particular GC. I've never been this healthy in my whole life or ever thought I could FEEL this healthy, let alone achieve it. Only last few days when wearing summer clothes, have I become aware how far past my goals I never imagined this day when o started a year ago. I dreamed it was possible possible, but never thought it was possible. Ladies are checking me out. Smoking hot ladies!

Can't wait to gwt back into gym on Monday morning to start 5x5. So stoked!!

THANK YOU all for helping me get here. Couldn't of done it without all of your help. Literally. Already scheduled for intro crossfit session on wed morning. If I don't drop dead, ill prob do it long term.
 
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thatsright

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May 1, 2001
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What about cardio with the 5x5?

If I do 3 body parts for one day, I'll still have about 30 minutes or so left for doing cardio. In the past my cardio was on treadmill for 34 minutes exactly. This is what I would do in that time:
8 Min warmpup
2 Min modest jog (7mph)
5 Min walk @ 3.5mph @ 10 degrees
2.5 minute harder jog @ 9mph
4 minutes walk @ 3.5mph
3.5 minuets jog @ 9.5mph
5 minutes walk @ 3.5mph
3 Minutes of jog @ 9+mph
Rest cool down.

So basically running a steeple chase. To maximize my goal of rapid muscle bulk above my waist, should I do this much cardio right after my 5x5 for each of the 3 days in the gym? Just one day of doing this cardio? How long is enough? I'm not a fan of the cardio part, just doing it because its needed (or well, it was).

Thoughts?
 

killster1

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Mar 15, 2007
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I had same question kinda, and think they told me i should do 20mins before or after the 5x5, i do it on my rest days now, 8-10miles jog, wondering if i should do the 8-10miles and ab ripper the same day as i lift and then take the next day off, i have really hard time taking days off with out exercise tho, makes me feel like my gut is just growing ;/
 
Mar 22, 2002
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What about cardio with the 5x5?

If I do 3 body parts for one day, I'll still have about 30 minutes or so left for doing cardio. In the past my cardio was on treadmill for 34 minutes exactly. This is what I would do in that time:
8 Min warmpup
2 Min modest jog (7mph)
5 Min walk @ 3.5mph @ 10 degrees
2.5 minute harder jog @ 9mph
4 minutes walk @ 3.5mph
3.5 minuets jog @ 9.5mph
5 minutes walk @ 3.5mph
3 Minutes of jog @ 9+mph
Rest cool down.

So basically running a steeple chase. To maximize my goal of rapid muscle bulk above my waist, should I do this much cardio right after my 5x5 for each of the 3 days in the gym? Just one day of doing this cardio? How long is enough? I'm not a fan of the cardio part, just doing it because its needed (or well, it was).

Thoughts?

If your goal is a bulk, you shouldn't do cardio until 4+ hours after your lifting session. They're are enzymes from aerobic exercise that minimize enzymes and genetic processes responsible for muscle hypertrophy. The best (and easiest thing) IMO is to lift one day, do cardio the next day. That way you can lift 3x a week, do cardio 2-3x a week and have a day or two off. That will also allow you to maximize your muscle gains. Also, keep in mind, that participating in cardio will make you burn a lot more calories - you'll have to eat for that. Sometimes in a bulk, eating becomes very unpleasant. During my big bulk, I stopped doing cardio altogether, which I admit isn't that healthy, but I really needed to gain some size.
 

thatsright

Diamond Member
May 1, 2001
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If your goal is a bulk, you shouldn't do cardio until 4+ hours after your lifting session. They're are enzymes from aerobic exercise that minimize enzymes and genetic processes responsible for muscle hypertrophy. The best (and easiest thing) IMO is to lift one day, do cardio the next day. That way you can lift 3x a week, do cardio 2-3x a week and have a day or two off. That will also allow you to maximize your muscle gains. Also, keep in mind, that participating in cardio will make you burn a lot more calories - you'll have to eat for that. Sometimes in a bulk, eating becomes very unpleasant. During my big bulk, I stopped doing cardio altogether, which I admit isn't that healthy, but I really needed to gain some size.

Hmmmm.....

The mentor suggested to get on cardio right after finishing my 5x5 routine for each of those 3 days in the gym. Bad idea? Or completely counter productive to building muscle mass and I should just leave the gym after the 5x5 routine is done?

I don't mind going to the gym 5 days a week. Mon/Wed/Fri for 5x5 w/o any cardio and then Tue/Thur/Sat? doing just 35 minutes of cardio. This is how bad I want this first ever bulk to succeed. But lets be realistic here....if I go the extra two days of just 35 minutes hard cardio instead of right after each 5x5 day, is the potential benefit worth it? I'm not a fan of the cardio at all. Its ok, but if If its not really gonna help me significantly overall, I think I'll just try the 5x5 for 3 days (and maybe still do cardio right after those 3 days)?

Thoughts
 

killster1

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Mar 15, 2007
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he just said dont do cardio for 4+ hours after you lift! which is interesting. Im glad he said the every other day thing is ok but says 2 days off a week haha wonder how much muscle im going to gain while still trying to lose my gut.
 

thatsright

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May 1, 2001
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he just said dont do cardio for 4+ hours after you lift! which is interesting. Im glad he said the every other day thing is ok but says 2 days off a week haha wonder how much muscle im going to gain while still trying to lose my gut.

Ahhh, I might of been an idiot and read that two quick. GC, to be sure you meant do cardio WITHIN 4 hrs of weights right?
 
Mar 22, 2002
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Ahhh, I might of been an idiot and read that two quick. GC, to be sure you meant do cardio WITHIN 4 hrs of weights right?

No, I meant DO NOT DO CARDIO WITHIN 4 HOURS OF WEIGHTLIFTING. After weightlifting, you have genetic expression of the mTOR pathway that finally comes down around 4ish hours. That maximizes protein synthesis for muscle hypertrophy. Honestly, if I were bulking, I wouldn't even do it that soon after - I'd lift in the morning and do cardio at night. Or I'd just do lifting and cardio on separate days. The enzyme expressed after aerobic exercise called AMPK actually inhibits mTOR and inhibits protein synthesis for muscle gain. You don't want that, if you're trying to gain muscle mass.

And I think you were referring to me. Typically people call me SC - I don't know why people have been calling me GC?
 
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Mar 22, 2002
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Hmmmm.....

The mentor suggested to get on cardio right after finishing my 5x5 routine for each of those 3 days in the gym. Bad idea? Or completely counter productive to building muscle mass and I should just leave the gym after the 5x5 routine is done?

I don't mind going to the gym 5 days a week. Mon/Wed/Fri for 5x5 w/o any cardio and then Tue/Thur/Sat? doing just 35 minutes of cardio. This is how bad I want this first ever bulk to succeed. But lets be realistic here....if I go the extra two days of just 35 minutes hard cardio instead of right after each 5x5 day, is the potential benefit worth it? I'm not a fan of the cardio at all. Its ok, but if If its not really gonna help me significantly overall, I think I'll just try the 5x5 for 3 days (and maybe still do cardio right after those 3 days)?

Thoughts

Your mentor isn't up to date on the latest research. I studied last year with two of the premier exercise physiologists in the field so this stuff is pretty new. What your friend is saying won't be good for bulking. That'd be fine if you were just trying to gain strength and improve conditioning, but you're trying to gain mass.

Also, I wouldn't say to do HARD cardio on the "off" days from lifting. I'd definitely keep it something light to moderate so as to not affect your recovery for lifting. Two bouts of cardio per week will improve your health overall (improve cholesterol, insulin sensitivity, will act as active recovery). You don't have to kill yourself there though.
 

thatsright

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May 1, 2001
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Your mentor isn't up to date on the latest research. I studied last year with two of the premier exercise physiologists in the field so this stuff is pretty new. What your friend is saying won't be good for bulking. That'd be fine if you were just trying to gain strength and improve conditioning, but you're trying to gain mass.

Also, I wouldn't say to do HARD cardio on the "off" days from lifting. I'd definitely keep it something light to moderate so as to not affect your recovery for lifting. Two bouts of cardio per week will improve your health overall (improve cholesterol, insulin sensitivity, will act as active recovery). You don't have to kill yourself there though.

Awesome. I'm being (somewhat) intense for those 3 days of 5x5 and I like I said, cardio not a huge fan of, so I'll won't do it on same day of 5x5. I'll try out Cross fit on Tuesday I think as there is a local place to do this.

How about after the 5x5, even 5-10 minutes on treadmill just walking, or again, no benefit if I'll already be doing two days of good (but not insane) cardio?
 
Mar 22, 2002
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Awesome. I'm being (somewhat) intense for those 3 days of 5x5 and I like I said, cardio not a huge fan of, so I'll won't do it on same day of 5x5. I'll try out Cross fit on Tuesday I think as there is a local place to do this.

How about after the 5x5, even 5-10 minutes on treadmill just walking, or again, no benefit if I'll already be doing two days of good (but not insane) cardio?

Walking won't really effect it much, I don't believe (unless you walk for a long period of time). If you enjoy walking, go for it. Try walking outside. That's way more enjoyable than staying on a treadmill :)
 

thatsright

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May 1, 2001
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With the diet I included a screen shot of above, I'll pretty much stick to that. But I'll probably eat another pound of cottage cheese as a mid afternoon and I'll have a MetRx RTD51 shake as soon as I wake up before gym. That's 720 cals right there. I can fill in with a scoop of Peanut Butter during t he day. There. There's an extra 1000 calories. But...

Suggest best foods to eat (bessides what I showed in OP) for bulking and to add another 1k calories.
 

killster1

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Mar 15, 2007
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Walking won't really effect it much, I don't believe (unless you walk for a long period of time). If you enjoy walking, go for it. Try walking outside. That's way more enjoyable than staying on a treadmill :)

i enjoy the treadmill while playing xbox360 or watching comedy or movies hahaha
 
Mar 22, 2002
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With the diet I included a screen shot of above, I'll pretty much stick to that. But I'll probably eat another pound of cottage cheese as a mid afternoon and I'll have a MetRx RTD51 shake as soon as I wake up before gym. That's 720 cals right there. I can fill in with a scoop of Peanut Butter during t he day. There. There's an extra 1000 calories. But...

Suggest best foods to eat (bessides what I showed in OP) for bulking and to add another 1k calories.

Check the fat loss sticky for a list of good foods. On top of that, your cottage cheese has a TON of sodium. Honestly, I'd find something to replace some of that because 1500-2000mg of sodium is the daily recommended value. You're at over 5000mg.
 

ZOOYUKA

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Jan 24, 2005
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On top of that, your cottage cheese has a TON of sodium. Honestly, I'd find something to replace some of that because 1500-2000mg of sodium is the daily recommended value. You're at over 5000mg.

I was thinking the same thing. There are cottage cheeses out there with much lower sodium content. I would eat two servings of it either a day.