Suggestions/help on building a web server.

[Subversal]

Hi guys,

I am going to build a web/file server for a friends business. I'd like some suggestions on hardware and software needed to run an efficient server. I have Win2k Server, IIS4. But not sure what road to choose: Intel or AMD. Price really isn't an object, but I'd like to save as much money as possible. Also would RAID be an option most of you would take? What mainboards you guys recommend and hardware to go with it? Thanks for all help in advance!

 

[xtreme2k]

what will the server loading be like?

for web pages, is the webpages static or dynamic?
for file storage, how many people will be using the drive?

 

[xtreme2k]

what will the server loading be like?

for web pages, is the webpages static or dynamic?
for file storage, how many people will be using the drive?

 

[Subversal]

Sorry,

Looking at 500-1000 unique visitors a day,

Static ip... it will be hosted at the business site,

About 10 people accessing.

 

[xtreme2k]

I think any good comp can do the job, very low demanding.
I suggest.

AMD Thunderbird 850MHz (or Intel P3/800EB+) <- these things are cheap now and will handle your loading with ease.
MSI K7TPro2 (or Asus CUSL2?)
256MB PC133 SDRAM minimum (i recommend 512MB as they are cheap now) supposingly to have enough ram to 'cache' the webpage contents
honestly I think even a 7200rpm IDE drive will handle your 10 people accessing loading. Put the webserver files on 1 drive, and the file server files on another drive, and best if you can put the OS on another one.
If you have 10 people heavily accessing the HDD then you might consider scsi.

I dont recommend IDE RAId for 'critical' use.

 

[Windogg]

Never go cheap with a server. I'm not saying spend a lot of money but be sure to buy quality components and don't skimp on item that will make it fault tolerant.

Like extreme2k said, get something with a load of memory 256MB or even 512MB to give it room to grow. RAID1 (Mirroring) is a must. Consider a FastTrak100 w/ 2 IMB 75GXP drives. Then get a good tape backup system like a 10/20GB TR5 Travan (Seagate is good) and have the thing backup the server automatically each night. Keep 2 weeks worth of records and one set at home just in case of a disaster. Get a good UPS (APC is my favorite) and make sure it has automatic shutdown capability. To ensure good uptimes, never have the load more than 50%.

Best of luck on the server.

Windogg

 

[Subversal]

Thanks you two.

Well its for a small business. So I don't expect the load to be too much. I was looking at these specs for the server:


Thunderbird 800 =$130
MSI K7T pro2 =$130
Promise Fasttrak ata/100 RAID =$80
256-512MB PC-133 =$200-$400
(2)IBM 20GB 75GXP =$260
APC UPS Pro280 =$150
Seagate Tapestor Travan 20 =$300

So far around $1250-$1450

Not bad, but still a few more things to add. I have a full-tower case and 400watt PS. SCSI is considered but I do not think it's really necessary. Also software. Like I said I have Win2k server and IIS4... but was looking at Apache... I know enough about it to use it but not sure if its the way to go... any ideas?

 

[Zach]

And research stability, and stay away from things that show signs of even mild problems. I'd look into whether or not you really want that Promise controller.

 

[Subversal]

Okay, thanks Zach. Those specs aren't set in stone, just a guideline so far. I am looking at a bunch of other components.

 

[Windogg]

Apache is available on WIN32 systems. I have two web servers with loads similar to yours running on 2 x 30GB IBM 75GXPs and a Promise FastTrak100 with no problems.

Your other solutions (expensive) is to go with a Intel i960 based solution. A ATA66 card from Adaptec is available for about $300 - $350 and it supports RAID0/1/0+1/5. After that, the solutions are SCSI based.

Windogg

 

[xtreme2k]

I personally think it is stupid to get that Adaptec IDE Raid card. It cost so much and it doesnt significantly outperform those 'cheaper' Promise or High Point card. If you are paying for that Adaptec IDE raid, you might as well go SCSI in my opinion.

 

[xtreme2k]

I personally think it is stupid to get that Adaptec IDE Raid card. It cost so much and it doesnt significantly outperform those 'cheaper' Promise or High Point card. If you are paying for that Adaptec IDE raid, you might as well go SCSI in my opinion.

 

[nEoTeChMaN]

I personally use RAID 1 duplexing over mirroring to control 2 hard drives.

Mirroring only use 1 controller to control 2 hard drives and if it fails...you're pretty much done for.

With duplexing, there is 2 controllers..one for each hard drive and if one controller fails..you still have the other one.

 

[Windogg]

I tossed out the Promise EIDE RAID because Zach suggested some sort of instability. I have not seen such a problem and I tossed out the i960 card as a suggestion. Yes, it do believe that a SCSi solution is the only true RAID solution. Duplexing? Wow, this will be a $10,000 server soon. Bring on the quad Xeon ServerWorks boards!!!!

Windogg

 

[nEoTeChMaN]

Hehe.

 

[Rellik]

How much storage do you need for the people in the office? If that is not too much, an SCSI system won´t set u back that much. In the entry level server world, U can save money on 2 things: The Monitor and the graphics card. Since graphic cards and good monitors can cost a games 1000 bucks and more, This can be invested in a better storage system
(which is THE most important factor in a server system, even if its &quot;only&quot; a small buisiness)

My recommendation(just an idea)

Case: Big Tower, roomy. Intake and outtake fan wouldnt hurt since it is supposed to run 24/7. I have the Inwin Server Case Q2000 which I like. It is available with 2 300W PS for redundancy.
Alternative: The big one from Antec. They have one model with six 5 1/2 slots and lots of easy access features. Screwless design. very good.

Mobo: Serverworks or Intel815, Via 133
CPU: P3 800/866/933- EB Model for 133Bus.
RAM: 512MB Crucial or other good brands. DON´T GO CHEAP HERE! ECC is preferable.
HD: IBM GXP 75 series with Hardware RAID Adaptec Ata 66 for few drives, U160 SCSI solution for more then 2 drives.
cheap cdrom
no sound
cheap video
cheap mouse and keyboard

Please think it through. Tape Backup is STRONGLY suggested. And an APC 650 pro or similar UPS

I would buy quality BECAUSE it is a small firm. Do you think they could afford a breakdown and extensive,hence expensive repairs?

 

[nEoTeChMaN]

Duplexing may sound expensive..it is cheaper in the lot run.

 

[Subversal]

Wow thanks for all the input people. I have around a $2000 budget to work with. I've used Promise controllers before and like them as well, but only for my personal use. I can deal with myself


Case:
I have an Enlight 8902 case w/ 400watt PS. Its a somewhat big case with plenty of room. It is a pain sometimes to work with/in though. Might look at the Inwin you suggested.

RAID1-Duplexing:
Okay I understand it somewhat. Its like mirroring but double the hardware (controllers/adapters). So it safeguards against both drive and adapter failure? So the only extra cost would be in the other controller right? Or if I am wrong where is the &quot;extra&quot; cost going to?


The RAM and HDD's are pretty much decided upon. I have pretty good deal on some Micron 256MB DIMMS, ECC/PC133 at $350 for all 512MB. The HDD's will be IBM 20GB 75GXP's... Not sure though if I do go SCSI. Might consider some 9.1GB SCSI drives... have to check on how much storage they actually need.

Right now they have 9 PC's in a workgroup with no central server. They are running Win2k Pro.

 

[nEoTeChMaN]

Yep. You're just getting another controller.

Believe me, you'll thank me down the road.

 

[Rellik]

Ok, 2k budget:

I suggest you go IDE first, and when they expand(any good web firm will) they can upgrade to SCSI RAID. Till then, I don´t see much use
in Raid 1, especially in software mode like the Fastrak(which is pointless to buy since win2k can do the same with just the Promise controller without raid onboard) If your system gets a virus or any
other problem, it is dublicated. RAID 1 is ONLY advisable if you think that one drive will fail physicly.

Just 2 IBM drives: A 15 gig for OS and cache, as well as space for the
workstations, and a 30 gig for the Internet data. Spend the money on good RAM,(at least 384 when running w2k server) a UPS and a Tape Backup and you will be fine. If it is a success, you can always build
an additional webserver to do load-balancing and for redundancy.

Hope this helps.

 

[err]

I build web/file server regularly and as for hardware suggestion, I will go for these:

- BX-Chip or Via based mobo, like Asus P3B-F, Asus P3V4X &amp; Abit BX133. Whatever you do, avoid i815 intel mobo chip as much as possible, as they only officialy support 512MB of RAM.
- Intel 700 CPU.
- 256 + 256 RAM, you will never have to much ram on a system running Win2K server
- (2) IBM 20 or 30GB HD. If you want to save some money, go for Win2K software RAID controller. Believe me, they are decent.
- Cheap Video card, like Vanta 8MB AGP
- UPS is a must. APC or tripplite is good.
- Tape backup, HP Colorado Travan IDE for budget tape backup solution. Get it with 2 extra tape for your backup rotation.

get a cheap CD-ROm &amp; floppy.
Try to get a good network card, although I say a $15 SMC card will do its job. If you would like to utilize Win2K RSI services, get a 3Com nic.

It should be a fun project. You are welcome to PM me and ask more question on hardware / software.

Have fun

eRr

 

[Subversal]

Yeah my first &quot;real&quot; server project Looking forward to it. Thanks all of ya for the help and suggestions. Still looking over reviews, specs, and the like before making a decision.

 

[Subversal]

How much backup should I need? Either a 4/8GB, 7/14GB, or a 10/20GB backup?

 

[Sunner]

For a webserver, why even bother with hardware RAID?

I havent used software mirroring in NT/2K more than once, but unless it differs alot from Solaris, there shouldnt be a problem as long as we're not taking about something like a database server with lots of load or something similar.

 

[Windogg]

I would go 10/20GB just because it allows you to swallow a large amount of data and still offer room for growth. Larger capacity drives tend to be faster also. In the end, the cost savings are minimal compared to a 7/14GB.

Windogg