Suggestions for Computer Tech in a New House

[Finly]

After many years I might soon be building a home. In preparation, I'm trying to gather up all my wishlists, one of which is computer integration.

What I wonder is:

Are there architectural solutions that could solve computer problems or just create greater functionality? E.g., for Home theatre? Servers with thin clients? Fibre cabling? Tying things into smart-home server?

Those are things that occur to me but are there any special design considerations that apply to new home construction in particular? What are the things I should be thinking about?

Throw your ideas at me.

 

[Ken g6]

Depending on how big your home is, I don't think optical fiber is necessary in most rooms. Cat6 or 6a cables will work for moderate distances even for 10 gigabit Ethernet.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Think big, don't just limit yourself to computer tech. Build in Jefferies tubes so all infrastructure is available to each room.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I would run a lot of ethernet jacks in every room, as well as places such as ceilings where you may want to put a wireless AP. Consider all the different places that could have a TV or computer, run extra jacks there, maybe even coax (though a lot of services are going ethernet now for TV which is nice). Run all of these to a central patch panel on a rack. If you are willing to, dedicate room for a full size server rack, that way you can add any equipment in there that you may want, from server/network gear to perhaps even audio gear. Though if room is tight, a wall mount rack will work too and be able to house switches, router, and other network equipment, and a small UPS.

Consider having various access chases throughout the house for running new wiring in the future, such as straight shoots from basement to attic. Don't plan to finish the basement ceiling with anything that can't easily be removed. IMO drop ceiling is best bet for basements. Some people don't like the "office" look, but they do make some decent looking tiles that don't look as officy.

Also consider future security cameras, run ethernet to locations that could potentially have one, including outside. Also consider home automation sensors like temperature and humidity. Do everything wired while you can.

 

[Humpy]

You gonna install a bunch of crazy wiring to every possible location so you can run a couple Roku's and have wifi for your phone?

 

[natto fire]

I worked for an electrical company where the boss went through this exact dilemma. He built a fancy house and had contactors for 90% of the circuits, all controlled through a computer which linked to his cell phone. The actual wiring was done in PVC conduit, as he had spray foam insulation done in most places, and romex was kept to a minimum.

If you are talking basic low voltage stuff, I would just do Cat6 all over the place. If you are planning on living there a long time, and have a big budget, I would do some kind of conduit to pull in the next standard after Cat6, at least in the major areas. It is ridiculously cheap to throw in some conduit now compared to opening the walls later. That said, I can't see gigabit being too slow for a residential use for a while.

 

[slashbinslashbash]

I would do Cat6 inside conduit, at least one drop per room (2 drops in big/multi-use/entertainment rooms such as living room, master bedroom, kitchen). The conduit just has to get you up into the attic or down into the basement, wherever you can access the cables freely. Just having the ability to drop it down through the wall and into a jack is huge. Definitely Cat6 to multiple outside locations including front door, back door, garage door; for future security camera installs utilizing Power over Ethernet.

 

[Finly]

Depending on how big your home is, I don't think optical fiber is necessary in most rooms. Cat6 or 6a cables will work for moderate distances even for 10 gigabit Ethernet.

The idea is a small home so that we can afford to pack in the other luxuries of life... like high quality computer cabling.

Fibre occurred to me because I wondered about whether I could use a thin client (tiny raspberry pi?) for most computer usage around the house, and how easy it would be to dump video files from the camera over the network if I happened to be using one of the clients.

It was a thought, but 100% committment to thin clients probably won't be the way I go (unless I hear amazing success stories somewhere)
so traditional UTP networking I agree with.

 

[Finly]

Thanks everyone for all responses: lots of info in each post. Hard to know how to respond.

"Jeffries Tubes" Hah! Nice Magnus.
Funny how that theme came back though in later posts.

Red Squirrel, first we'll have to see if the drainage on our lot allows a basement, then it will depend how the basement is used but movable ceiling in some rooms sounds like a good idea. Security cams a new item for my list -- the home security topic was somehow missed by my radar. I should probably start some weekend visits to the firms that sell these products.

Natto fire, PVC as conduits sounds like a cheap easy fix. Good idea.
slashbinslashbash, Coming from the attic would be an easy sell. I wonder how that works with code for firebreaks ... and for insulation. Erg, complications. I may need the jeffries tubes after all.

Security Cams pull power over ethernet? I can see I'm going to have to google and start some separate threads somewhere. Lots to learn.

 

[Finly]

Cabling is obviously a starting point. And a complicated topic when it comes to the mechanics of how we incorporate it into the design.

The question is then, what connects to the cabling?
Security cams yes.
Whole house audio?
Home Theatre? (I have an HTPC but it has an hdmi run direct from PC to TV).
What else plugs into network cabling?

 

[skyking]

so much is 802.11x wireless these days. Don't get too crazy with the catX wiring. If you can, run smurf tube to some spaces you can get to later, that will help a lot with future proofing.
https://www.google.com/search?q=smurf+tube&espv=2&biw=1440&bih=785&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjYw4bI-dTKAhVM7GMKHYRYDVcQ_AUIBygC
It absolutely does not need to home run all the way back to the demarc area. It only has to get to the attic hatch, for example. A downstairs closet ceiling, etc. You can have a couple of runs from the demarc area to those remote locations.
Make very careful notes of where you put it, very accurate as-built drawings.
A tube can pass by several possible locations on the way. No need to put wall plates anywhere or pull cables yet. The sheetrock guys cover it up, the painters, etc. You know
where it is.
Now you are moving in and doing room design, and you decide where you want some wires and jacks. Cut the sheetrock and a chunk out of a tube behind it, install a low voltage old work plate like this,
http://www.hardwarestore.com/electrical-boxes-low-voltage-2660.aspx
and pull the wire in from there back to the attic hatch, or where ever you ganged up the ends. You know the length needed to get to the demarc from there. Pull that much slack and some extra and pull it on down to the demarc. Terminate and done.
The alternative is to dump hundreds and possibly thousands into cable and termination that you will tend to run every dang place, usually far too much and too much to so many locations, and oddly not enough to key places.
Ask me how I know
The reason is, the key places change. You change your mind ( or far more importantly, your SPOUSE does! ) and now you are short here and have 12 runs over there that you might use 1 of. It is frustrating. The smurfs are nice because you make a good map and you can have them go vertically in key areas where you would *possibly* want a low jack or a mid-wall or both for media reasons, in 3 places in a room. All hidden behind a finished wall. Then when all the decision dust settles you make a little sheet rock dust and don't have a ton of ugly blank plates with expensive unused wires behind them.

 

[Finly]

hi skyking

That sounds like good advice for future proofing too and perhaps smurf tubing is what the others were simply referring to as 'conduit'. If so, now I understand.

(I was envisioning conduit slightly differently, as the protective coiled metal conduit that surrounds house wiring when it is out of wall ... which is 1/2 inch at best).

PVC was mentioned above. I've never seen smurf tubing anywhere. Does it come in a decent size ... the photos looked not much above an inch. Can you run an hdmi cable through regular smurf tubing?

 

[Humpy]

The question is then, what connects to the cabling?

I had a feeling this was a search for a solution to a nonexistent problem.

There is so very little useful function to be gained at this point from adding technology to a house that it doesn't make a lot of sense to include much beyond typical network cabling so you can run your Roku, wireless router, and a video camera or two. It's far better to spend all available money on low tech stuff like roofing and windows and insulation.

If there is a crawlspace or attic it is pretty easy to fish something in if needed, so conduit isn't even that beneficial. Spending money to avoid possible Sheetrock repairs is questionable. Whatever is done will be guesswork and compromises unless you design your house like a data center.

If there are identifiable wants/needs like home theater, or someone is a tech hobbyist, then sure add whatever makes sense or what you want.

 

[Greenman]

I had a feeling this was a search for a solution to a nonexistent problem.

There is so very little useful function to be gained at this point from adding technology to a house that it doesn't make a lot of sense to include much beyond typical network cabling so you can run your Roku, wireless router, and a video camera or two. It's far better to spend all available money on low tech stuff like roofing and windows and insulation.

If there is a crawlspace or attic it is pretty easy to fish something in if needed, so conduit isn't even that beneficial. Spending money to avoid possible Sheetrock repairs is questionable. Whatever is done will be guesswork and compromises unless you design your house like a data center.

If there are identifiable wants/needs like home theater, or someone is a tech hobbyist, then sure add whatever makes sense or what you want.

I'd say you're right on point here. I just went through this with a client who had a friend telling them to wire for everything possible. When it came down to what they actually thought they might someday use, it was cat6 and cable.
I also once worked on a house that was totally wired for smart house, they never installed a single device. They spent thousands on a great deal of wiring that was worthless.

 

[Finly]

I'd say you're right on point here. I just went through this with a client who had a friend telling them to wire for everything possible. When it came down to what they actually thought they might someday use, it was cat6 and cable.
I also once worked on a house that was totally wired for smart house, they never installed a single device. They spent thousands on a great deal of wiring that was worthless.

I would classify myself as a hobbyist ... though I'm something of a cheapskate so I don't spend thousands on new devices like some might. I bought a 'pinnacle showcenter' when they first came out and was streaming video to my old SD television. I made my own antenna and have painstakingly fished wire through walls to bring the cable from roof to TV. I run an HTPC with mythTV (TV and 400+ movie backups) which I have sited in one room with cabling running through the wall to get to the TV without bringing in the noise. I've hooked my sound system into computer and speakers (somewhat ineffectually ... would like to perfect this). So, it's not a total non problem.

However, I take your point. Over-engineering for a problem that doesn't even exist yet is certainly cart before the horse. I guess I've just lived with dealing with problems as I explore my interests so wanted to see if I could smooth my passage on the cheap by incorporating future interests into my house design. Rest assured, if I'm not interested in pursuing it, then it will not be built into the house. I am indeed, much too cheap for that. My thought was that since we are spending thousands anyway on a new house build, perhaps I can make my life easier accommodating for future tech interests.

Maybe I needed better examples in my opening post. When I listed smart-home, home theatre, server-client setups, I was hoping for more examples of how I could incorporate technology, or examples of how others were doing it. In other words, I guess I was trying to find out what existed in the tech world that people were playing with, and that they would address at the point of house construction if they had a chance. I know I am looking at several things based on my own experiences. I'm attempting to draw on the experiences of others.

Sorry for the long-winded re-phrasing of my question. Hope that clarifies. Thanks for the replies.

Having smurf tubes/conduit (with or without cabling) is an excellent example of building practices that lets me exercise my interests without committing me to anything in particular.

 

[MrPickins]

If there is a crawlspace or attic it is pretty easy to fish something in if needed, so conduit isn't even that beneficial.

I tend to disagree. I've pulled a ton of cable both in new construction and rework, and am always glad to see conduit installed at the drops.

When all goes well (uninsulated interior wall with attic access), it's not to bad fishing down the wall, but usually it's a pain in the ass.

 

[Humpy]

I tend to disagree. I've pulled a ton of cable both in new construction and rework, and am always glad to see conduit installed at the drops.

When all goes well (uninsulated interior wall with attic access), it's not to bad fishing down the wall, but usually it's a pain in the ass.

Sure, I didn't intend to completely discount the convenience of conduit.

 

[Charmonium]

I live in an older 60's vintage home and most of the house is a rat's nest of wires - mainly because I wanted to run ethernet to all of the places I needed. But also because I have to balance the draw on different circuits. I didn't go wireless because at the time, it wasn't fast enough or reliable enough. But I think that's changed to a great degree.

Ethernet is great for security cams because many/most are PoE now so you don't need to worry about power hookups. Plus you get a better picture. But fishing cable isn't nearly as convenient as having conduits going through the wall in every room. Many security systems will integrate surveillance cameras into the alarm system so you'll want those cameras hard wired. But for entry points and motion/smoke/CO2/temperature detection, unless you have a very sophisticated burglar, wireless monitored systems are just as good and much more flexible and a piece of cake to install. The only down side is replacing batteries on your detectors every couple of years.

Ultimately though, no matter what you do, you're going to have become a snake (wire) herder. Things are going to be moved, new equipment with new requirements purchased, etc. And although wireless is good enough for most purposes, there will be some things you want hard wired either for speed or security.

The best you can do is have as open a framework as you can so that accessibility is never an issue. Flexibility is the most important thing.

If I were to build a house now, I would have at least multiple separate circuits in each room and I would have at least a half dozen outlets per room that were staggered so that half would be at waist level and the others closer to the floor.

That's what you should really worry about more, power requirements and power distribution.

 

[skyking]

The smurf is typically 1" or so, depending on brand. even with HDMI ends on a couple of cables you can pull 6 or 7 cables through one of them. Follow some of the suggestions here for methods.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=29417075&postcount=3

 

[WackyDan]

Cat 6 is all you need. Yeah, conduit from basement up through attic to pull future upgrades would be a good idea.

Fiber? You can just use a media converter to go from ethernet to fiber where needed. Where might you actually want to run fiber or prep for it? Are you going to have a shed? Run a fiber burial to the shed. I did... My shed is my cloud. If my house burns, my NAS in the house is mirrored to the NAS in the shed. The Fiber for 120' was only $140. Media converters at both ends were $125. You would obviously want to have power to the shed as well... Why fiber though? Burying ethernet requires that you use a specially sheilded and grounded cable plus have lightning arresters at both ends of that burial.

So... Plan for one port per room and more ports where it makes sense? I even installed on in the kitchen. I have multiple ports at my entertainment area in the living room and in my home office. You may want to incorporate a wiring closet that also has enough power and ventilation to allow you to keep a home server/NAS and all your core networking gear in.

Another idea you may want to think of... Running CAT 6 to the attic so you can get it outside under the eves... I ran multiple lines to my attic and small roof over my patio to run POE Network cameras for security.

One more thing.. If you are not going to have cable or dish tv someday, you'll probably want to ensure a run of RG-6 COAX is in the attic so you can mount an HD tv antenna up there.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Cat 6 is all you need. Yeah, conduit from basement up through attic to pull future upgrades would be a good idea.

...

So... Plan for one port per room and more ports where it makes sense?

I would do two ports per room. It basically just costs you the $0.10/ft for wire (wall plates cost the same and the labor is almost the same too), and may be useful in the future.

Especially if one jack goes bad or something. (It happens.)

Also can use the same wiring for phones, etc.

IMHO is all. Not my money.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Yeah cat6 will be a standard for a long time I imagine. Consider that you can probably run most devices on 10/100 but we typically do gig because it's cheap and standard, and cat6 can do 10gig! So I would not worry much about conduit tbh, maybe run some lenghts from basement to attic, or other "main" areas to make future pulls easier, but putting every thing in conduit is going to be super expensive and labour intensive. You also want to be careful not to cut too many holes in joists/studs which would be hard to manage with so much conduit going everywhere. In commercial applications they typically have a lot more utility space for that kind of stuff such as drop ceiling cavities that are practically as large as a whole other floor. You don't have that kind of luxery in a house. Also you dont want more than 360* worth of bend in a single run so that means lot of LBs which need to be accessible.

If you do run conduit just be sure to let the glue dry before pulling wires through, I recall reading somewhere that the glue can react with the jacket of cabling and melt it. Kinda makes sense as that's how that glue works with the conduit, it fuses it together. Personally I'd restrict conduit runs to ~4" straight shoots from basement to attic in various key locations. There is also no sense of running conduit in a location "just in case", instead just run a jack there now.

If you run coax treat it like ethernet, have it go to a patch panel too. I personally like keystone patch panels as they make it easy to add stuff at any time and are very modular.

Also if looking at any kind of home automation try to avoid doing any major infrastructure that is based on a specific product. Products come and go too fast. You don't want to invest all that money and in 5 years from now that company goes under and you can't find devices for it any more.

 

[natto fire]

hi skyking

That sounds like good advice for future proofing too and perhaps smurf tubing is what the others were simply referring to as 'conduit'. If so, now I understand.

(I was envisioning conduit slightly differently, as the protective coiled metal conduit that surrounds house wiring when it is out of wall ... which is 1/2 inch at best).

PVC was mentioned above. I've never seen smurf tubing anywhere. Does it come in a decent size ... the photos looked not much above an inch. Can you run an hdmi cable through regular smurf tubing?

The bolded brings up a good point. There are numerous types of conduit. PVC is cheap and easy to install. ENT (smurf tube) is even easier and cheaper to install. Not sure how long your runs are going to be, but if you end up with long runs that happen to run parallel to AC wiring, then you would want a metal conduit (EMT, IMC, RMC, FMC, LFMC) to keep the electromagnetic force (EMF) fields from the AC wiring causing signal interference in your low voltage cabling. This is especially true if the AC wiring is feeding a highly reactive load, such as some motors, switch mode power supplies, and some fluorescent light ballasts. The higher reactive loads will lead to a stronger EMF through the dissipation of eddy currents.

I mainly do commercial electric work, so all of this info might be overkill to think about on a house, but I have worked at a house or two that felt like a commercial job because of the sheer size of it.

Not sure what your goals are for energy efficiency of your house, but if you are going with spray foam insulation, then conduits are a very good idea, in my opinion. The electrical contractor could still use Romex by code, but it would be silly to not have some conduit, at least some chases between hard to get to areas, for the inevitable LV cable that is damaged in the construction process.

 

[slashbinslashbash]

So I would not worry much about conduit tbh, maybe run some lenghts from basement to attic, or other "main" areas to make future pulls easier, but putting every thing in conduit is going to be super expensive and labour intensive. You also want to be careful not to cut too many holes in joists/studs which would be hard to manage with so much conduit going everywhere. In commercial applications they typically have a lot more utility space for that kind of stuff such as drop ceiling cavities that are practically as large as a whole other floor. You don't have that kind of luxery in a house. Also you dont want more than 360* worth of bend in a single run so that means lot of LBs which need to be accessible.

If you do run conduit just be sure to let the glue dry before pulling wires through, I recall reading somewhere that the glue can react with the jacket of cabling and melt it. Kinda makes sense as that's how that glue works with the conduit, it fuses it together. Personally I'd restrict conduit runs to ~4" straight shoots from basement to attic in various key locations. There is also no sense of running conduit in a location "just in case", instead just run a jack there now.

I think straight shot 1" conduit from the attic (or basement) to reasonable jack locations in at least 1 wall per room would not be too much to handle. No reason to glue it or make angles for your conduit once it's entered an open space like an attic or basement or crawlspace. The point of the conduit is to keep from having to fish cable through walls, and that's pretty much it.

I like the idea of having at least 1 electrical outlet per room be on a separate circuit from the others in the room. For that matter, having separate circuits for each room (less the 1 odd outlet) would be nice too. All outlets on 20A circuits of course. Ceiling lights are fine on 15A circuits, and those can be bunched up. Kitchen of course requires multiple 20A circuits and a 30A, even if you go with gas appliances, may as well have the circuit there if your needs change in the future. Living / media / computing areas would be good to have 2 20A circuits in the room, a dedicated one for the equipment and a separate one for random stuff.

Something that I just thought of is giving every bedroom a charging nook around chest height near the door. Just like a 16"x16"x4" nook in the wall (only as deep as the studs), with an outlet inside one side of it, for charging phones/tablets/etc. Something like this but not as deep or elaborate:

Although that one looks like it is nice and deep enough to set a laptop.... a tablet can be propped up inside a shallower one, but I'd feel uneasy doing it with a laptop.

 

[Humpy]

Being a tech forum, and the OP specifically asking for interesting smart-home related technology ideas, I was actually looking forward to all the responses covering the latest future tech that makes everyone's life easier.

Everyone agrees you need a bunch of wiring. To connect what? No one really knows...

If someone comes out with a network connected garbage disposal, or you suddenly realize the need for a 7th TV, you of course want to be prepared. Other than that there just doesn't seem to be much going on here. :\