Suggestions for a video card upgrade.

[mingsoup]

Thought I would start my own thread on this. I suppose every rig is different and I haven't upgraded in quite awhile. I'm sure it gets old as there is at least one a day of these threads. But how about just one more....

My current system is in my sig, and I have the hankering to upgrade my rig. One reason, is that I would like to play Team Fortress 2, but find it non enjoyable in its current state. For some odd reason, at 1920*1200 with the settings it selects for me I get really weird slowdown when I'm next to say a turret as an engie. ~20fps.... I also have a lan party to go to in August.

I'd also like to get into some newer multiplayer games as well. Maybe be prepped for Starcraft 2. Starcraft 2 doesn't even need to be on high everything, as I see very very little differences in the screen shot compares between ultra high, high, and medium. I believe the changes out of line performance wise. My ideal gaming experience is Natural Selection for HL1 at a constant 60fps. \)

I'm jaded because I wasn't happy with my 7800GTX purchase 5 years ago for 500$. It wasn't fast enough even the day I bought it and it just got worse with time. So I thought this time, I wouldn't buy top of the line or even silver quality, but bronze. Hell, I don't think I've even been happy with any top of the line video card purchase I've ever made, so why even try. Even with the 7800GTX, I fell back onto oldie but goodies like HL1 rather than playing Battlefield 2. Why buy a top of the line video card, when there are new games out there right now (or 2 years old (Crysis) eyeroll that still aren't going to run.)) Maybe I've been doing it all wrong. Maybe I should just buy the card that is 100% best bang for $$$ now, and simply play at whatever res/quality it will give me. That's seems like a smart way to go and something to bate my OCD. ?

That leaves me slightly torn between possibly a 5850 and a 5770. What turns me off is the fact that these cards are in most cases more expensive than the day they were released, as well as the approaching Southern Islands stuff. I've been mulling this over for a month now. I'd be more inclined to spend 150$ on a 5770 (with sharp deal hunting) then 300$ on a 5850 which seems in my mind getting older (a year). Any input would be appreciated.

For historical purposes:
E2160 @3.2Ghz (TomsHardware.com article on the E2160 drove me to this purchase as absolute best bang for buck)
Gigabye P35-DS3L Rev 2.0
2 GB DDR2 800 (I've been criticized for this amount of ram, but Windows 7 seems to run fine and I always pare my OS down to bones)
7800GTX
Audigy Gamer
Windows 7
Dell 2405FPW (This means 1920*1200 native and its implications on gaming)

 

[v8envy]

Bang for the buck and frequent updates is exactly the sweet spot for gaming, IMO. Getting the most expensive video card you can and then sitting on it for 4 years is the worst possible way to go -- epeen builds require upgrading to the latest and greatest every six months for best effect. Not as bad as it sounds if you re-sell the top end hardware while it still has value, but still not for the faint of heart.

I had that very same box (except with a 2180) with an 8800GT. It does very well. It pains me to channel toyota, but I'd have to say a 5850 and 5870 will not live up to their full potential in an older, small cache dual core UNLESS you're gaming at 25x16 on a 30" monitor and insist on highest possible video settings. As you said yourself, now is the worst possible time to be looking for an upper mainstream card. Get the 5770 and plan on a complete machine overhaul in the fall. Or better yet, look for a hot (or used) deal on a 4870 or 4890.

 

[toyota]

yeah a 5770 would be the better overall choice for you. with that Pentium Dual Core you are just not going to really justify spending 140 bucks more for a 5850. the 5770 is light years better than that 7800gtx and will have you playing every game out there even if it isnt at the very highest settings. a 5830 would be a decent choice too if and only if you can find one for well under 200 bucks.

I would try and get 2 more gb of ram too as 2gb just doesnt cut it in some games.

 

[zerocool84]

Need to get another 2GB RAM. 2GB is not enough for many games today and like said above twice you'll be starving the 5850 with that dual core.

 

[evolucion8]

The HD 5770 is a nice combination for your current processor. My brother in law has a Pentium Dual Core E2200 overclocked to 2.70GHz (His mobo is a crappy overclocker), and when he moved from the HD 3870 512MB to the HD 4870 1GB, besides of much more eye candy like graphic details and anti aliasing, the frame rate didn't increase two fold like supposed to (Need for Speed and Assassin Creed 2 didn't make a big difference). But interestingly enough, a CPU bound game like Resident Evil 5, he was able to max it at his native resolution of 1280x1024 in DX10 mode and 2x anti aliasing, running at an average of 37fps, when he moved to the HD 4870, he was able to use 8x FSAA and the game performed fast running at 86fps.

It shows that the Pentium Dual Core having only 1MB of cache will bottleneck somewhat a similar performing card like the HD 5770, but your gains will be great and you will be GPU bound than CPU bound (Except in GTA4 and other CPU hungry games that are very few in number). But since your CPU is overclocked higher, probably you will be closer to fully utilize the HD 5770. Try to increase your RAM at least, 2GB will not cut it with recent games.

 

[mingsoup]

Side question. Could 2 gig of ram be hampering Team Fortress 2? How could I find out? Thanks for the great input so far on such a frequently asked question.

 

[ViRGE]

Side question. Could 2 gig of ram be hampering Team Fortress 2? How could I find out? Thanks for the great input so far on such a frequently asked question.

You could run it in Windowed mode and look at how much RAM it's chewing up in the Task Manager, but I highly doubt it gets anywhere close to eating 2GB of RAM. It's not exactly meant to be a demanding game.

 

[mingsoup]

I've recently added 4 gigs of additional ram and changed to 64 bit windows. Very littly if any difference in Windows 7 responsiveness. Maybe a smidge. But that is neither here nor there.

I simply do not understand how my E2160 Oc'ed to 3.3 Ghz could be bottlenecked.
I am not blatantly disregarding what I have been told, but look at this.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/pentium-e2160_14.html#sect0

Xbit affirmed that the E2160 at 3.4Ghz is the equivalent of one of the best Dual Core's Intel ever made. So I have a hard time believing the cache argument. But if the argument still holds true, would you then also tell a Core 2 Extreme X6800 guy not to bottleneck his GPU with a 5850, correct?

In this light is a 5770 still recommended?

As a side note, does anyone have a website where they simply do $/frame rate comparisons of all cards of the market. Some people advocate against purchasing this way, but I want to try it that way this time. I've done it every other way and come out unhappy. Thanks.

 

[toyota]

I've recently added 4 gigs of additional ram and changed to 64 bit windows. Very littly if any difference in Windows 7 responsiveness. Maybe a smidge. But that is neither here nor there.

I simply do not understand how my E2160 Oc'ed to 3.3 Ghz could be bottlenecked.
I am not blatantly disregarding what I have been told, but look at this.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/pentium-e2160_14.html#sect0

Xbit affirmed that the E2160 at 3.4Ghz is the equivalent of one of the best Dual Core's Intel ever made. So I have a hard time believing the cache argument. But if the argument still holds true, then would also tell a Core 2 Extreme X6800 guy not to bottleneck his CPU with a 5850, correct?

In this light is a 5770 still recommended?

As a side note, does anyone have a website where they simply do $/frame rate comparisons of all cards of the market. Some people advocate against purchasing this way, but I want to try it that way this time. I've done it every other way and come out unhappy. Thanks.

um what? so because you have your cpu at 3.3 and its now equal to a dual core that was fast 3-4 years ago, its no longer a bottleneck for a 5850? you do realize that an X6800 would be about like me lowering my E8500 to 2.6 or so dont you? at 2.6 my cpu would not even be fast enough to fully enjoy a few of the very cpu intensive games out there and would most certainly limit a 5850 almost across the board.

that being said you are playing at 1920x1200 so a 5850 makes sense. just dont expect your setup to match the numbers you seen in 5850 reviews. and dont complain when you try to the lower the settings and cant get any more fps in those cpu intensive games.

 

[mingsoup]

Thanks for the reply Toyota. I do appreciate it. PC's move fast....maybe too fast for me.

 

[toyota]

Thanks for the reply Toyota. I do appreciate it. PC's move fast....maybe too fast for me.

a 5770 would still be a gargantuan leap over your 7800gtx and will allow you to play every game out there even if you cant run them all at max settings. a 5830 splits the differnce but unless its below 200 bucks I cant recommend it.

maybe just grab a used gtx260 for around 100 bucks?

 

[mingsoup]

Yeah, the 260 is interesting. Frankly, I won't be playing any DX11 games, and by the time DX11 matters I would hope I would have moved onto something newer anyway. With that out of the way and my total lack of need for anything eyefinity, a last gen card which is cheaper but provides about the same performance makes alot of sense correct?

 

[pmurgs]

I'd agree with some of the other posters in this thread that a 5770 would better suit your pc than a 5850. You'd just be spending a lot more on the 5850 and the rest of your rig would hold it back a lot. If you want to go to 5850 performance levels... you need to consider upgrading your cpu as well.

Regarding your cpu... some of the new games like Bad Company 2 or Grand Theft Auto 4 need quad core cpu's to perform well. You are going to have to upgrade that cpu if you want to play some of the up coming games.

With you monitors native 1920x1200 resolution, if you want a decent frame rate at that resolution with the eye candy turned on, you need a decent pc, that means cpu and gfx card. You cant go half way with a high resolution monitor and not have the pc to back it up and expect things to run smoothly.

 

[deimos3428]

For TF2, a 5770 is more than sufficient.

 

[mingsoup]

Anyway for me to play Arma 2, Crysis, Starcraft 2//World in Conflict with a 5770? If not, how low would I have to go with settings?

What do people consider playable FPS when they are recommending?

 

[Qbah]

Performance per dollar:

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Zotac/GeForce_GTX_465/31.html

A pretty recent article, should be accurate.

 

[pmv]

Performance per dollar:

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Zotac/GeForce_GTX_465/31.html

A pretty recent article, should be accurate.

What really matters for an upgrade though is not 'performance per dollar' but 'performance improvement per dollar', when compared with what you have now.

I mean, when upgrading, the best 'performance per dollar' is always to keep the card you already have, as the dollar cost is zero, so the ratio is infinite!

On those tables the gts250 does surprisingly well, but in reality it offers a fairly small performance improvement per dollar for most even if its absolute performance per dollar seems very good.

So I guess what is needed is a form where you tell them what card you have now and it works out the chart accordingly.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

My vote is for the 5850. At 1920x1200 wouldn't the gpu be doing most of the work? The 5850 could also stay with you through a computer overhaul. My honest opinion is that regardless of the card you use you still have a really old computer. I don't see how you expect that thing to game or even do the most basic computer stuff. The hardware you have is better suited for web surfing or a htpc.

 

[BlockheadBrown]

I'd wait until an Nvidia card falls in your price range. I like both Nvidia and ATI, so I'm not playing fanboy here. Nvidia has arguably more "tech" in its offerings now. Their biggest disadvantages are price, heat and noise. Truthfully speaking, the 400 Series hasn't been the "big bang" everyone was hoping for. Had the initial 400 series offerings been priced about 1/4-1/3 lower, I think people would have been more happy/accepting. As it stands, there's big question marks and no $200 level or reasonably performing lower end card (save the rumored 460 to be launched on July 15th - even then at $230 (still too high)).

 

[GaiaHunter]

Anyway for me to play Arma 2, Crysis, Starcraft 2//World in Conflict with a 5770? If not, how low would I have to go with settings?

What do people consider playable FPS when they are recommending?

Well how much can you spend?

For the price you pay for a 5850 (maybe +a few more $$) you might be able to get a 5770+Athlon II X4+mobo for it and reuse your memory.

Athlon II 630 can be got under $100 - in new egg there is a 635 for $99.99 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-702-_-Product

Add a motherboard like this (that lets you reuse your RAM) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131595 for $69.99 and a 5770, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...XFX-_-14150447 for $159.99, total $330.

 

[Rhezuss]

If you have the wallet, i'd go for a HD 5850 or the equivalent GTX 470/465 maybe?

I own a HD 5770 1gb Vapor-X for 3 months now and it's easily the best card I've owned feature/performance/low power and temp wise since my first computer in 1997.

I'm quite pleased with this buy and would recommend it to anyone!

 

[GullyFoyle]

My honest opinion is that regardless of the card you use you still have a really old computer. I don't see how you expect that thing to game or even do the most basic computer stuff. The hardware you have is better suited for web surfing or a htpc.

LOL. PC Snobbery. Looking down from your i7 ivory tower...:awe: You'd think he was running a Pentium 1.

This computer will run everything BUT the latest games at high res, with aplumb.

 

[RussianSensation]

That cpu is plenty fast to push a 5770 when more likely than not the 5770 will be the limiting component. There are games like Arma2, Resident Evil 5, GTA iV and BF:BC2 where the dual core will be much slower than a quad core. But at this time I think you can get a new graphics card and then upgrade to Sandy Bridge or Bulldozer next year. The current i7 and Phenom II architectures have been out for 2 years years orso they are pretty old by now. Both sockets 1366 and 1156 are dead.

If I you don't mind lowering some graphics settings or AA at 1920x1200, I would consider a used 4890/GTX275/285 or if you want a lower performing but cooler card -- 5770.

Starcraft 2 (any of the cards I mentioned are fine, NV runs SC2 better): http://www.legionhardware.com/articles_pages/starcraft_ii_wings_of_liberty_beta_performance,4.html
Crysis (5870 or GTX480 for 1920x1200): http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/xfx-radeon-hd5830_7.html#sect0
World in Conflict (older gen of high end cards > 5770): http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/xfx-radeon-hd5830_13.html#sect2
Arma 2 (more or less same performance for the cards I mentioned): http://www.pureoverclock.com/review.php?id=949&page=11

Last gen. high end cards are faster than the 5770.

 

[Qbah]

What really matters for an upgrade though is not 'performance per dollar' but 'performance improvement per dollar', when compared with what you have now.

I mean, when upgrading, the best 'performance per dollar' is always to keep the card you already have, as the dollar cost is zero, so the ratio is infinite!

On those tables the gts250 does surprisingly well, but in reality it offers a fairly small performance improvement per dollar for most even if its absolute performance per dollar seems very good.

So I guess what is needed is a form where you tell them what card you have now and it works out the chart accordingly.

You can lead a horse to water...



I would think TPU has all the necessary information available to make an educated decision. All that's needed for the OP to do is to compare his current performance with all the available upgrade paths and see which one offers the best results for the money he's willing to spend

 

[mingsoup]

Just because I'm not sitting in the latest intel i7 socket base, doesn't mean my CPU is poo(I really don't think.) When OC'ed the E2160 can compete very very well, but its no Quad core.

Anyways guys, I went with a 5770. So I'll have a full write up of impressions when I play around w/ it abit. If anything it will let me play TF2, which I purchased and can't play it. Medium settings...20fps. Thanks for all the great advice.