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Suggestions for a Budget Server

R

Rhombuss

Golden Member
Looking to build a budget server...here is a list of what it needs to be capable of:

Data storage (roughly 400GB)
Gigabit networking
Microsoft Exchange Server
Single domain webhosting, low traffic (under 1000 visitors per month I'd say)
Currently has a 512kpbs SDSL line

What's the realistic minimum I could get away with in terms of hardware and the OS. I'm thinking either single Opteron/Xeon, with IDE RAID 0+1 on Windows 2000 Server. Win2K Professional cannot run MS Exchange Server, correct? If I didn't run MS Exchange Server, would there be any problem using Pro for the other requirements?

TIA!
 
Exchange is all that will eat it up. It is disk intensive like nothing else you will use, and just LOVES SCSI.

For all other uses, ATA RAID 0+1 or RAID 5 and an Athlon XP will do fine. How many users on the exchange server? If less than 20, you might be able to get away with an XP still (save for gigabit).

Also, on GbE, how often will it really get used? And by used, I mean 40-60MB/s transfers. If not too often, but you like the extra speed, then PCI-based GbE (30-40MB/s max, typically) will be fine. Otherwise, look at A64 and P4 solutions for integrated GbE.

Opterons and Xeons are way more expensive than your needs, unless you're putting dozens of people on the Exchange server.
 
Hmm......that's some good news, thanks Cerb.

Generally there will be under 15 people on the exchange server (and I mostly just want to use it for Outlook email purposes, nothing fancy). Can Exchange Server even run on a non-Server version OS?

GbE is generally just for transfering large CAD files over the network - I'll definitely be getting an integrated GbE on the motherboard. How about domain web-hosting? It's not servicing high traffic, but I don't want lengthy load times either.
 
Our office runs Exchange for ~80 people on a Pentium3 933 with typical CPU load around 5%. It does like RAM 🙂 STORE.EXE is sitting around 550MB memory usage for us.

SCSI RAID1 is a good start for fault tolerance, perhaps with an LSI Logic 21320R, those cards are just $115 at Newegg including one cable & terminator (it's a dual-channel card). For a backup solution, unfortunately you're looking at major $$$ to back up 400GB on tape 🙁 but if you have 400GB of valuable data, think what the cost of reconstructing it would be, if the pipes burst above the server room or ______________ (insert catastropic scenario here).

For a motherboard, if you do want a server-oriented setup for a reasonable price, maybe a Tyan Tiger K8S with an Opteron 140 and 1-2GB of R-ECC PC3200. But if you want PCI-X to really let your gigaNIC and SCSI hit their potential, then you would be moving up the line and would also be looking at a case that takes EATX boards and an EPS power supply. I think Supermicro might have a PCI-X-equipped single-Xeon server board if you lean towards Xeons.
 
For 15 people or so, it should be OK w/o SCSI.
mechBgon: funny, most of my experience comes from helping out at my father's company, and it's also a dual 933, odd. Similar use as well. The same server is also a web, DB, and a few other things. Exchange runs happily w/ SCSI RAID.

Integrated GbE is what will cost you. If you're up for paying, I'd also go with Tyan. If you want SCCSI, get one with onboard SCSI, maybe even the Newegg barebones w/ a backplane and fantastic rails, and a ZCR card. If not SCSI, then just go with a A64 or P4C solution (for cheap GbE that doesn't eat into slow PCI bandwidth--PCI-X based ones are fine) that will support registered ECC. No matter how you cut it, RAID and ECC RAM are just safeguards you need on anything with mission-critical data, whether you get premium parts or the cheapest you can find.

For web hosting, unless it's ASP, a Pentium 150 will be fine for a few hundred hits a minute, and maybe even more. Windows idling will eat up more I/O time for web hosting than the web server will likely need, if your estimates are even 10% of the real needs.

As far as backup, external hard drives may be an option to consider, as well. You do want external and/or off-site backup, else Mr. Murphy will get you.

I'm sure Mech there is somewhat familiar with the I-told-you-sos that occur a few months after management doesn't listen 😀.
 
Originally posted by: Rhombuss
Looking to build a budget server...here is a list of what it needs to be capable of:

Data storage (roughly 400GB)
Gigabit networking
Microsoft Exchange Server
Single domain webhosting, low traffic (under 1000 visitors per month I'd say)
Currently has a 512kpbs SDSL line

What's the realistic minimum I could get away with in terms of hardware and the OS. I'm thinking either single Opteron/Xeon, with IDE RAID 0+1 on Windows 2000 Server. Win2K Professional cannot run MS Exchange Server, correct? If I didn't run MS Exchange Server, would there be any problem using Pro for the other requirements?

TIA!
Click to expand...

buy an older IBM Netfinity, do a search on EBay, you can get GREAT equipment for a very reasonable cost. plus they will have redundant power supplies etc.
 
I might go with an Athlon 64 or an Opteron, just because I don't think a normal P4 Northwood or Athlon XP would be sufficient for all these processes I'll be running 24/7. I guess the only issue I have now is what operating system to use. I currently have a license for a few copies of Windows 2000...but would going to Windows 2000/2003 Server be advisable? What are the real benefits to going to a Server-geared OS?
 
Originally posted by: Rhombuss
I might go with an Athlon 64 or an Opteron, just because I don't think a normal P4 Northwood or Athlon XP would be sufficient for all these processes I'll be running 24/7. I guess the only issue I have now is what operating system to use. I currently have a license for a few copies of Windows 2000...but would going to Windows 2000/2003 Server be advisable? What are the real benefits to going to a Server-geared OS?
Click to expand...

i have clients with all kinds of hardware, but the IBM Netfinity with dual or quad Xeons 500 mhz processors with 1 mb cache take the cake. these machines are FAST. not fast for like gaming or stuff, but at running multiple processes, these machines are amazing.

plus, you can get a set up with scsi and everything for less than $3grand.
 
I don't know about PltinumGold's Netfinity servers, but take our word for it, here: you don't need a super-fast PC for this server. A nice desktop box will only lack in disk drives and RAM. If you go with a [P4] Xeon or Opteron, do so for features, like a cheaper way to get hot-swap SCSI RAID, rather than for any speed benefits.

I really can't comment on what will or will not run on 2k Pro, as I have no experience with servers running the non-server Windows OSes.
 
Originally posted by: Rhombuss
I might go with an Athlon 64 or an Opteron, just because I don't think a normal P4 Northwood or Athlon XP would be sufficient for all these processes I'll be running 24/7. I guess the only issue I have now is what operating system to use. I currently have a license for a few copies of Windows 2000...but would going to Windows 2000/2003 Server be advisable? What are the real benefits to going to a Server-geared OS?
Click to expand...
To clarify, our PDC runs Exchange on a single P3 933. It does have 1.5GB of PC133 to play with. To clarify further, it's WinNT 4.0 Server with Exchange 5.5, definitely not the latest & greatest 😉

I've had my own workstation doing non-mission-critical file-serving at work out of necessity, and it has given me some insight on what will affect your file-serving. In our case it's McAfee VirusScan Enterprise that's the significant factor. It takes the cake for thoroughness. 😛 When my system (Athlon64 3000+ with 1GB of PC3200) is serving an Office2000 Pro installation across the LAN, it can drag even the A64 to a complete crawl while it gnaws on big .CAB and .CHM files! :Q Hyperthreading isn't the answer either... my A64 still has twice the performance of a HT Xeon 2.4B with DCDDR333 in this particular task (my employer bought a Xeon-powered Dell that will eventually take over this duty from my workstation, if it can handle it :evil: ). You can see why I don't burden our PDC/Exchange server with the serving of the Office installations... 😛

If you don't have crazy-powerful AV software, then you may not need tons of CPU power for the file-serving side of the equation. A bit of testing might be called for, using the types of files your server will actually be serving and the AV software you'll actually be using.
 
single 933? They didn't waste enough money!
🙂
Without the heavy AV stuff (searching archives and help files, too...that's paranoid!), the cheapest PC out there will do everything but large amounts of ECC RAM and GbE.
 
Originally posted by: Cerb
single 933? They didn't waste enough money!
🙂
Without the heavy AV stuff (searching archives and help files, too...that's paranoid!), the cheapest PC out there will do everything but large amounts of ECC RAM and GbE.
Click to expand...
True true 🙂 Before VirusScan Enterprise 7.0, we were using the much-less-nasty VS 4.5.1 Multiplatform and I was doing fine with my AthlonXP 2500+ and even the 1700+ before it.

So I think some testing would be good. Grab a 1GHz P3 if you have one idle, and put it in the role of the server, and see how it does. But think about data backup, fault tolerance and uninterruptible power... sounds like there's 15 peoples' productivity riding on this project 🙂 Your company undoubtedly pays for other forms of insurance...
 
Okay, I think I have a pretty good idea of the hardware I need....

Would still appreciate more suggestions on a Windows OS though.
 
Hmm....I was hoping for something more economical - perhaps Win2000 Server?

Oh, another thing I forgot to ask...if I just get an Athlon XP / P4 Northwood, would it really be necessary to get ECC RAM?
 
SBS comes with Exchange and Outlook, as best I recall. Sound like a better deal all of a sudden? Price Win2000 Server and I think you'll find it's about the same as WinServer2003 Standard Edition.

You don't have to buy ECC memory when using an AthlonXP or Pentium4, nope. I don't know of any chipsets intended for desktop processors that will force you to use ECC.
 
Originally posted by: Rhombuss
Hmm....I was hoping for something more economical - perhaps Win2000 Server?

Oh, another thing I forgot to ask...if I just get an Athlon XP / P4 Northwood, would it really be necessary to get ECC RAM?
Click to expand...
No, but if there's critical data floating around the box, it's just a good idea.

In response to mechBgon: none force ECC use, however some motherbaords do have support for ECC RAM.
 
That's what I was thinking...I know Athlon/P4 boards support ECC, but I'm not sure if they really take advantage of the error checking capabilities? Or is that independent of the platform?
 
It depends on the board. searching for ECC, it looks like the only new ones with support for it are A64 boards. Used to be a few more (heck, I had one a couple years ago). On the Intel side, most 875P boards support ECC.

If you really need to cut cost corners, don't worry about it.
 
Originally posted by: mechBgon
SBS comes with Exchange and Outlook, as best I recall. Sound like a better deal all of a sudden? Price Win2000 Server and I think you'll find it's about the same as WinServer2003 Standard Edition.

You don't have to buy ECC memory when using an AthlonXP or Pentium4, nope. I don't know of any chipsets intended for desktop processors that will force you to use ECC.
Click to expand...

also, if you are looking for Outlook client usage, the Sharepoint makes outlook work like Web mail for clients. they can just log into the web site provided by sharepoint and use outlook 2003, inbox, calender etc over the web.
 
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