Suggest the best gun for self protection

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: Brackis
What the hell does rape have to do with a robbery?
Most women are raped in college or when living as young singles. You are talking about guns as a phallic protectorate of women.

You are advocating passivity in the event of a home invasion.

He posted statistics (albeit without a source... yet...) that suggest such an attitude is increasingly inappropriate.

Viper GTS

 

[Brackis]

Originally posted by: housecat

"subordinate my wife"?
My wife would prob have you down for a texas curb at the mere sight of you. Shes just as dominant as I am. We decide things together, like this gun.
You dont have a clue, you think this is some 1950s relationship where I tell the "little lady" when to cook and clean.

Why is it then, that you felt the need to mention rape and the overpowering of females and your wife in particularly, when making an arguement earlier?
So yes, you have subordianted your wife as someone who is more vulnerable when left to her own means than you.

 

[Specop 007]

DONTFEED THE TROLL PEOPLE

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: Brackis
Why is it then, that you felt the need to mention rape and the overpowering of females and your wife in particularly, when making an arguement earlier?
So yes, you have subordianted your wife as someone who is more vulnerable when left to her own means than you.

Simple statistics, most women are smaller than most men.

My g/f is 5'3 120 lbs. I'm 6'2 & nearly double her weight.

The majority of men could rape her if they wanted, most would think twice if I was there (or in my absense, she were holding my Benelli).

Viper GTS

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Brackis

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Brackis

Originally posted by: housecat
lol decided to come back with a real response eh?

if you would have read the entire thread, i had a .22 rifle growing up. shot a 4-10 shotgun.
gun experience has nothing to do with not trusting criminals to leave me alone if I'm "nice to them".

Why dont you just leave them milk and cookies at the door?

no not everything works out perfect, ya things go bad. no one is advocating some fantasy. No one ever stated some fantasy, just a desire to do whatever it takes to keep my family safe.
that sounds like your dream, not mine.

but you know what buddy- When it comes down to taking the word of a madman, or defending my home- I will defend my home every time.

now if that means i get hurt or die, i'll die.

if you are doubting my dedication or will to protect my wife or future children, you are dead wrong.

You go ahead and trust those criminals.

I hope you get that Axe murderer, but decide to "use your vast IQ" to out think the situation.
I'm not thinking about it, I'm doign the best I can at what I have to do.

Sorry for making another post with the same quote, but what you said was so off target that I couldn't help it.
First off, what the hell are you talking about in bold letters? The word of a madman? Is this some sort of conversation. An intruder wants a stereo or a couple of bucks, not to attack you and your family so he can have a chat with someone about last weeks episode of American Idol. You don't have the secret nuclear access codes, thus your family won't be taken hostage and you will be unable (to your dismay) have the wonderful opportunity to kill a bunch of goons like Bruce Willis does.
Secondly, as has been covered before, someone who is looking for some quick loot and who gets fired upon by macho family protecting moron is more likely to then, in his own defense, shoot or attack back. This puts your families lives in more danger than if you had let the petty crook be scared away by you yelling at them, or letting them snatch the apple pie that was cooling on the windowsill. Thus, your ego is not only not protecting your child and wife, but putting them at MORE risk (on top of the fact you already are going to have a loaded and ready to discharge firearm lying out).

I cannot stress enough however, that the odds are so stacked against anything ever happening, that you are ruining the qaulity of life, and the tranquility of your household by imposing fear and paranoia on your family with a loaded gun on the kitchen table.

You're an idiot. I think i've said that before, but I want to make sure EVERYONE Hears it so that no one listens to your idiocy. Leave these discussions to those of us who study these things for a living. Ok? Please?

Did you know that 1 in 4 women in the US will be raped? Not robbed, not talked to, RAPED. Did you know that the fastest growing occurances in rape are incidental to robbery by strangers (replacing previous years when rape was more common from known persons). Did you know that in one year in the US there are about 420,000 robberies, 416/per 100,000 homes in cities with population over a million, victims were injured in 33% of all robberies, and 1 in 14 of all the murders in the US occured during a robbery?

Would you like me to post another couple hundred thousand lines of statistics, education, and experiential information about this subject, or would you like to just concede now?

What the hell does rape have to do with a robbery?
Most women are raped in college or when living as young singles. You are talking about guns as a phallic protectorate of women.

Apparantly you didn't read anything I posted. Rape incidental to robbery is the fastest growing statistic among rapes, replacing the known raper scenerio of the past few decades. Therefore bringing up the need of self-defense measures in the house as relating to robberies IS valid.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: Brackis
Does having a father having loaded, unlocked gun out in the house send a pessimistic message to his son or daughter regarding how they view the world? Yes

It's no more pessimistic than having a toolbox around.

Viper GTS

OMG...that's so awesome....I'd sig it, but too few people would 'get it'.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: Brackis
What the hell does rape have to do with a robbery?
Most women are raped in college or when living as young singles. You are talking about guns as a phallic protectorate of women.

You are advocating passivity in the event of a home invasion.

He posted statistics (albeit without a source... yet...) that suggest such an attitude is increasingly inappropriate.

Viper GTS

Sorry, I'm not much of a source person because it never helps...people who have made up their mind don't care about facts, they just want to be right more and live in their safe self-created universe.

However;

http://www.umsl.edu/~rkeel/200/econcrim.html

there's most of what I talked about. The increase of rape incidental to robbery may or may not be on the web to the public. I picked it up during a meeting with the local sheriff when I was recruiting someone to help with a public class I was offering. He told me it was the subject of a recent intra-agency briefing and was beginning to get some discussion. I don't have exact numbers, only general concept of it's increase.

BTW, yes I know that's a secondary source, but I've studied enough primary stats to know that it's dead on accurate.

 

[housecat]

Originally posted by: Brackis

Originally posted by: housecat

"subordinate my wife"?
My wife would prob have you down for a texas curb at the mere sight of you. Shes just as dominant as I am. We decide things together, like this gun.
You dont have a clue, you think this is some 1950s relationship where I tell the "little lady" when to cook and clean.

Why is it then, that you felt the need to mention rape and the overpowering of females and your wife in particularly, when making an arguement earlier?
So yes, you have subordianted your wife as someone who is more vulnerable when left to her own means than you.

Viper is correct.. but I would like to say as well that you know why buddy?

Because even though I am a man, I'm not the biggest nor strongest.. no man really is, there always is someone bigger.
And when that man comes through, if he has a knife.. hes bigger yet!
If he has a gun, hes gotten pretty damn intimidating no matter what his size.


You heard of the great equalizer?
My wife, pumping a double barrel shotgun into your chest is a GREAT equalizer.

When I'm gone, she'll have a much better chance if someone invades our home.. but remember this is the criminal you would leave your wife without anything to defend herself with.. you just want him to get what he wants and get out right? Your wife will be raped. Mine won't.
Give him what he wants.. hes only a desperate criminal.



Its not about "subordinating" my wife.
Guess what genius? I'm physically the subordinate to 50% of men alive today.

With a shotgun in my hand, I wont be subordinate to any man.
And heres one thing you dont get: I DO NOT HAVE TO BE THE SUBORDINATE TO ANY MAN IN MY OWN HOME.

Like I said, this is pretty real and serious stuff.. if you want to have a philosophical debate, laden with pokes to Red states and movie references.. go elsewhere.

You are a laughable excuse for a man.

 

[Specop 007]

possibly, in a house anyways, a knife and proper training would be your best weapon.

Food for thought

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: Specop 007
possibly, in a house anyways, a knife and proper training would be your best weapon.

Food for thought

A knife requires you to get close to someone, then size/strength become a factor again.

Viper GTS

 

[MidasKnight]

Originally posted by: EtOH
For home protection handguns suck. One of the best guns for home protection is a shotgun. You get a larger spread pattern so you don't have to aim as well. On top of that my uncle who is a judge told me what his sheriff told him. One of the scariest things for a thief to hear is the sound a shotgun makes when you rack it. CHA-CHUNK. Very disticntive sound and 99% of criminals will haul ass when they hear it.

Get a 20 gauge non-automatic w/ Buck Shot. You want that sound.

EtOH

:thumbsup:

Remington 870

 

[housecat]

Originally posted by: Specop 007
possibly, in a house anyways, a knife and proper training would be your best weapon.

Food for thought

Even in small size, a knife is pretty deadly.. i'll read that... thank you.
I am short limbed enough where I dont know if this is the best avenue for me (I'm still getting the shotty no doubt), but anotehr form of self defense for me and the wife to consider is DEF appreciated.

i always wanted me and the wife to do some defense courses that dont require a weapon.. just in the odd chance she or I am caught out somewhere or home and its needed.

I think between some kind of martial arts lessons (prob whatever the military uses, it would be a good workout for us as well), both of us having very small cans of mace with us (i think even a keychain mace would be a good idea).. and the shotgun at home we will have the confidence and ease of mind we're looking for.
its a reasonable level of safety precaution.

hey we might go our whole lives and never end up a victim of a violent crime.. but why go off the suggestions of a madman 😀 (brackis) and chance it?

i think every young couple should do these things, esp if you live in a city with alot of crime like we do.

i hope my kids listen and want to partake in the martial arts classes me and the wifey take, keep mace on them and learn gun responsibility.

to me, thats how you get above the average helpless and dumb citizen to someone a little more aware that just because the chances are on your side... luck no longer plays a factor in the outcome. 🙂

let me know what you think of my plan.. i figure some form of martial arts will be a great workout and another activity we can do together. and im a big believer in mace.


BTW-
read this to your wife or GFs outloud.. I did to mine and I was just cracking up the whole time.. its just so ridiculous

It's easy to talk a tough game online where you always come out the victor, with a leg perched atop the intruders dead body and your wife wanting to bang you once the golden aura of holding you gun proudly above your head goes away, as some guys guts spill all over your carpet and you get the key to city, but the fact is that it doesn't happen that way.

lol 'the golden aura'?? this guy has some imagination
signed,
that macho family protecting moron :beer:

 

[Specop 007]

In addition to the guns theres 7" of Cold Steel blade undewr the mattress on the wifes side. In the off chance the bad guys get all the way to HEr without anyone knowing or waking up, she only has to reach over the side of the bed to have a weapon. Due to small kids in the house I cant keep a pistol in such easy access areas. The knife is something of a last line of defense. But its there.

 

[housecat]

lemme guess

you arent from massachusetts are you? 😉


7" blade? dddaaaaammmnnnn
im more of the boy scout pocket knife type lol
i actually still have mine i still carry it

guess i could get in some quick jugular swipes or some nice gut stabs with it if i had too

 

[PlasticJesus]

Shoot someone and have them live?

The guy that Bernard Goetz shot and put in a wheelchair successfully sued him for several million. Problem is, Goetz filed for bankruptcy and at the same time the guy in the wheelchair was provided all his medical needs thru Medicaid. The couple hundred bucks that Goetz pays each month actually goes to Medicaid and the guy in the wheelchair gets nothing. You'd think the attorney for the guy in the wheelchair would have been smart enough to see all that coming. I'm not much on shooting people, but try to rob someone on a subway and a wheelchair is probably a good place for you.

What's the NRA's latest premier membership? Been out of the loop for awhile. Probably something like "Super Double Gold Plated Platinum Lifetime for $1000 but for $500 dollars more we will maintain your cryogenically frozen body and guns on our property in Fairfax or Vienna Va or where ever membership".

That LaPierre guy needs to become a televangelist or something.

I'm not the NRA and I vote and Charlton Heston is not my president.

Over time I've owned a Ruger M77 .308 featherweight (sold because it hurt to shoot it), a Colt Combat Government Model .45 ACP (confiscated by State of Hawaii), a S&W 629 Classic DX (sold to put tires on my Maxima), a .40 cal Desert Eagle (sold because I decided I couldn't stand to see "Baby Eagle" engraved on it), a S&W .357 586 (sold because I don't remember why; I might have needed a hooker or drugs or something), and now an 870 Express. Through all this, the NRA hasn't ever gotten a nickel of my money.

Chinese in the streets? Someone's been watching too much Red Dawn (the movie; not the AT personality).

If you're worried about a U.S. invasion, consider something like a HK91. I've fired one and it's sweeeeeet. Wish I had been there with one when those Romanians robbed the Bank of America in California a few years back.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: housecat
lemme guess

you arent from massachusetts are you? 😉


7" blade? dddaaaaammmnnnn
im more of the boy scout pocket knife type lol
i actually still have mine i still carry it

guess i could get in some quick jugular swipes or some nice gut stabs with it if i had too

I aint livin in no stinkin Communist Liberal State. What the hell wrong with ya boy?! 😉

 

[housecat]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: housecat
lemme guess

you arent from massachusetts are you? 😉


7" blade? dddaaaaammmnnnn
im more of the boy scout pocket knife type lol
i actually still have mine i still carry it

guess i could get in some quick jugular swipes or some nice gut stabs with it if i had too

I aint livin in no stinkin Communist Liberal State. What the hell wrong with ya boy?! 😉

*evil Mr. Burns voice*
Excellent.

I didnt think my people existed in this realm anymore. I wont even go into P&N anymore.
I think some of the outspoken members there (backed up by mods) think they are making a difference or something.. still I have yet to see one legitimate conversion (political or otherwise) occur on the internet.

The internet was quite obviously designed purely for p0rn. I wish moveon.org and AT P&N would realize this. 😀

 

[Vee]

Most posts in this thread are about what you'd expect in a thread like this. There's been a couple of good advice though, in this thread. I just want to reinforce that by reiterating essentially the same thing.

For home, shotgun. Pump is nice for the sound and the extra rounds. Auto will fail you, a no no. Not Buckshot. A single pellet can kill someone a 100 yards from your house. Smaller pellets will serve you as well, or better, on short distances, will penetrate less and be less likely to kill your neighbors children. 12 gauge but weak load, short shell. No magnum or 3 inch stuff. Even the police's "tactical" 12 gauge ammo is downloaded. Big gauge, weak load.

For personal, meaning carry, pepper spray and a .357 revolver. Any size or weight you're comfortable with. Bigger is more comfortable to shoot. But you should realize one thing. You're actually NEVER really going to have to fire this thing in anger. You are however, going to carry it a lot. If you're not carrying it when/if you come to need, you chose the wrong size. 3-3½ inch, "round butt" is probably ideal, but unfortunately rare.

Glocks and 1911s are all the rave, but IMO not so good advice.
1911 is the correct choice for anyone who is an enthusiast pistol shooter, training several times a week. The wrong choice for everyone else.

Glock is an acceptable choice for police personel that departments don't want to spend money on training. A "fool proof" gun for "fools". It's still a gun more for "spray and pray" firefights than personal defense. It's also considerably more likely (than a revolver) to go off sometime, when you don't want it to go off, if you habitually keep it with a round in the chamber. And if you don't, it's not "ready". Most Glocks are also quite bulky.

I've had my "lady gun", a 2½' model 19 S&W since 1980. I've never even "shown" it, (but boy am I grateful I had it, once). It's comfortable to carry, comfortable to shoot with a small rubber stock. It's always perfectly safe, during carry, during loading, unloading. It's also always instantly ready and completely to rely on. And it WILL fire six times. If that's not enough, I don't think it matters anyway. (But it IS enough. You only need to keep them off. Shooting the bad guys is not your job. Let the police handle that. )
I'm an old competition shooter (mainly rifle) and despite the 2½' barrel, the revolver is also still more accurate than any Glock.

 

[KK]

Originally posted by: housecat

The internet was quite obviously designed purely for p0rn. I wish moveon.org and AT P&N would realize this. 😀

:thumbsup:
Yeah, I wish we had more porn in P&N, it'd make it worthwhile.

 

[bradruth]

Originally posted by: Vee
Glock is an acceptable choice for police personel that departments don't want to spend money on training. A "fool proof" gun for "fools". It's still a gun more for "spray and pray" firefights than personal defense. It's also considerably more likely (than a revolver) to go off sometime, when you don't want it to go off, if you habitually keep it with a round in the chamber. And if you don't, it's not "ready". Most Glocks are also quite bulky.

What are you basing this on, exactly? The fact that it has no external hammer or safeties? If you know how to handle a gun, then the odds of a Glock going off are no worse than any other, unless you're the type of person that doesn't know what they're doing and keeps their finger in the trigger guard when not shooting, that is.

And if you're carrying a gun you keep it chambered, unless you're trained, as an Israeli soldier, to draw & chamber in one motion (and from their cheap Fobus holsters, no less).

 

[Rhin0]

I 8th the shotgun. I use a Remington 870 Police pump shotty. I keep it loaded with 5 rounds of #BB (1 1/2oz magnum load=seventy five .18 caliber BB's) very hard to get away from. The last two in the tube are 00 buckshot. A shotgun is seriously your best bet though... Easy to learn and use, scary to hear, your wife can learn it fast too.

Pistols go through walls really badly in some cases (if that is a consideration). AR-15's in .222/5.56 even penetrate less than say some +P+ 127 grain Ranger SXT hollow 9mm

good luck though. If you want recommedations or help, PM me directly.

 

[Rhin0]

Originally posted by: bradruth

Originally posted by: housecat
I like the idea of that auto shotty from Counterstrike. Do those really exist?

Automatic & semi-auto shotguns do exist, but I wouldn't recommend them. There are a lot more issues with them than with a standard pump shotgun, and since you're a novice I'd strongly suggest a pump.

The Benelli automatic shotguns are solid. Starting with the M1 super 90 and now the XM combat shotgun they are a legacy in auto shotguns. I mean yeah I guess you could save more moving parts=more chances to break and I guess that is right to an extent.
BUT... The XM auto shotty in on duty in IRAQ, and I guarantee it kicks a$$ in houses. I also see the 590 and 870 though

The shotgun I want is the Benelli M1 entry. I may apply for a tax stamp to get it this summer. It's an "autoshotgun" and it is only 14" so it can go through doors sideways with you. They need these in Iraq!!

 

[Conky]

12 gauge pump shotgun.

I recommend a Remington 870 Express. The sound of chambering a round is enough to make most home invaders start running. 😉

 

[blackinches]

blackinches likes the h&k usp socom. but in close quarters a shotgun does sound like the best bet.

just out of curiosity do you live in a really bad neighborhood or are you a drug dealer?

 

[JulesMaximus]

From your description of your wife a shotgun would probably not be something she would feel comfortable shooting. Even a light game load would be punishing for her to shoot and she would probably not want to shoot it (for practice).

A Smith & Wesson Ladysmith in .357 magnum would be an excellent choice for her.