subwoofer - how much does it really add?

[joecool]

I've got a pretty decent HT system, in the $2000-$3000 range, but never had a sub. Finally picked one up over the weekend, a decent (in my opinion) $300 unit, and watched Eregon with the kids. The bass was cool - at one point it was literally making picture frames rattle! However, what really struck me was how little it was used during the movie - really only just for that visceral boom during fighting and such. Since I mostly enjoy dramas in occurs to me that the sub isn't going to get much use. And once the thrill wears off, even when it is active it doesn't add anything important to the movie experience - I'd have enjoyed Eregon just as much without it as we did with it.

So, I'm curious about other's experience. Is the sub a critical part of your HT system? Why or why not? And please, don't bother to reply if you love those cars that are deafening from a block away - you and I are clearly from different planets and your input won't be relevant here!

Thanks,

Joe

 

[mb]

Sounds like the sub did its job. It added to the experience without being overpowering and obnoxious.

 

[spidey07]

It's abolutely critical. There's an entire channel just for it. If you look at the sub channel it is used throught the entire movie and not just effects.

You might have a setup problem or a position problem. Then again, a well setup sub isn't really noticed.

 

[jtvang125]

It definitely adds realism to the movie. It's purpose is for bass so it's not going to be utilized at all times like the rest of the speakers. But when you're watching a movie with lots of action and explosions you'll start appreciating what good subwoofer adds to the movie experience.

 

[jfall]

my question is how did a $3,000 HT system NOT come with a sub in the first place

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

It may partly be a matter of what sub you bought. For years I used a cheap-but-decent sub (a modified Audiosource SW-15), and was amazed at the difference when I moved to a Hsu Research STF-3, which literally shakes the entire house. As Spidey points out, a sub, like a new haircut, really isn't meant to be noticed on a constant basis, but you really can't reproduce lows accurately without one.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Mine certainly is Its a 8" Pioneer in a ported box that came with a HTIB setup. This can be loud but the enclosure noise is disgraceful.. Port noise, enclosure noise.. sounds like that amp internals are rattling around inside.. Horrible sub for anything over normal volume..

 

[joecool]

Originally posted by: spidey07
It's abolutely critical. There's an entire channel just for it. If you look at the sub channel it is used throught the entire movie and not just effects.

You might have a setup problem or a position problem. Then again, a well setup sub isn't really noticed.

that's what i thought, and that's why i wanted one. in fact, in the store when they demo'd it for me, the entire soundtrack was playing through the sub, and it seemed like it added some aural depth to everything. however, at home i had my ear to it, and most of the time it was silent. so maybe you're right about setup. i'll have to pull out the manual for my receiver again and check.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Definitely helps....Just got my new Hsu VTF2 Mk3 last week, it goes down to 18Hz, and replaced an old 8" infinity subwoofer.

Properly calibrated, it makes a world of difference. Just make sure you calibrate with a sound meter, not your ears.

 

[suicidalpigeon]

Go try some other movies you previously watched without the sub. Some good benchmarks would be Saving Private Ryan, Master and Commander, and the Band of Brother series. Subs pretty much give a realistic feeling to the movie (mostly action).

 

[giantpinkbunnyhead]

I couldn't imagine life without my sub. (Well I CAN but you get my point). It makes those particular scenes in a movie just JUMP out and it provides so much more impact. When there's a stampede of horses running across the land, I want the floor to shake just like the ground would probably shake for the protagonist about to be caught up in the rush. Makes me feel like I'm there!

 

[Epsil0n00]

I'm no audio expert... just a guy who enjoys his home theater setup. I have a sub and I find it nice for music as well as movies. My front two speakers have 15" mid-range woofers and deliver good low freq sound... but I can tell if the subwoofer is not on... it doesn't sound as full.

I think subs are worth the money to really get those low frequencies... they don't really get booming during non-action movies... but I think they help fill-out normal sounds and make the environment in the movie more convincing.

 

[joecool]

Originally posted by: jfall
my question is how did a $3,000 HT system NOT come with a sub in the first place

i built the system myself with components from various sources, put a lot into the receiver and speakers i did buy, and dvd player (back when dvd players were pretty new and not even available at wally-world!), and just didn't have $ left for a sub. once i had the 5 channels the .1 didn't seem as important.

plus, i have a wife. need i say more?! ;-)

 

[jdoggg12]

I have a pair of Klipsch RF-3s and find that i dont need a sub. It'd be nice - but to truly make use of it, i'd have to watch movies when my neighbors are at work.

You only need a sub if your speakers have poor midbass drivers and/or poor box design --OR-- if you really want low end rumble. I find that the subs in my car are great b/c you need lots of bass in a car (IMO) but subs in a home can be overkill if you have good tower speakers (which i assume you do for 3k)

 

[50cent1228]

Originally posted by: jfall
my question is how did a $3,000 HT system NOT come with a sub in the first place

thats what i wanna know

 

[jdoggg12]

A 3k system is likely NOT a HTIB setup - so as it was purchased, he likely overloooked the sub

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: jdoggg12
I have a pair of Klipsch RF-3s and find that i dont need a sub. It'd be nice - but to truly make use of it, i'd have to watch movies when my neighbors are at work.

You only need a sub if your speakers have poor midbass drivers and/or poor box design --OR-- if you really want low end rumble. I find that the subs in my car are great b/c you need lots of bass in a car (IMO) but subs in a home can be overkill if you have good tower speakers (which i assume you do for 3k)

You're reallly missing a lot of the movie without a sub.

There just isn't much of a comparison between tower speakers and a modestly priced capable sub. Set all your speakers to small and let the sub do the work.

 

[joecool]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: jdoggg12
I have a pair of Klipsch RF-3s and find that i dont need a sub. It'd be nice - but to truly make use of it, i'd have to watch movies when my neighbors are at work.

You only need a sub if your speakers have poor midbass drivers and/or poor box design --OR-- if you really want low end rumble. I find that the subs in my car are great b/c you need lots of bass in a car (IMO) but subs in a home can be overkill if you have good tower speakers (which i assume you do for 3k)

You're reallly missing a lot of the movie without a sub.

There just isn't much of a comparison between tower speakers and a modestly priced capable sub. Set all your speakers to small and let the sub do the work.

i'm thinking that may be my problem - since i didn't have a sub, i set my speakers to large (according to the manual this will divert low range to the speakers to compensate for the lack of a sub); when i added the sub i enabled that channel but didn't change the speakers to small. i'll try this tonight, and maybe break out the matrix or master and commander - truely an awesome movie!

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: joecool

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: jdoggg12
I have a pair of Klipsch RF-3s and find that i dont need a sub. It'd be nice - but to truly make use of it, i'd have to watch movies when my neighbors are at work.

You only need a sub if your speakers have poor midbass drivers and/or poor box design --OR-- if you really want low end rumble. I find that the subs in my car are great b/c you need lots of bass in a car (IMO) but subs in a home can be overkill if you have good tower speakers (which i assume you do for 3k)

You're reallly missing a lot of the movie without a sub.

There just isn't much of a comparison between tower speakers and a modestly priced capable sub. Set all your speakers to small and let the sub do the work.

i'm thinking that may be my problem - since i didn't have a sub, i set my speakers to large (according to the manual this will divert low range to the speakers to compensate for the lack of a sub); when i added the sub i enabled that channel but didn't change the speakers to small. i'll try this tonight, and maybe break out the matrix or master and commander - truely an awesome movie!

If your speakers are still set to "large", then most receivers will feed all the regular bass to the speakers and only effects to the sub.
If you set them to small, then all the excess lower frequency stuff will be sent to the sub.
BIG difference.

 

[SoulAssassin]

Originally posted by: suicidalpigeon
Some good benchmarks would be Saving Private Ryan, Master and Commander, and the Band of Brother series.

The scenes in the forest where the artillery is raining down is insane when cranked up with a good system. Feels like your house is under attack.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
If your speakers are still set to "large", then most receivers will feed all the regular bass to the speakers and only effects to the sub.
If you set them to small, then all the excess lower frequency stuff will be sent to the sub.
BIG difference.

Not to mention the interferrence problems with three woofers trying to produce bass frequencies. Cancelation galore!

 

[jdoggg12]

<-- audiophile - i know what i'm missing w/o a sub, but you have to match all the speakers for the system to sound good. A sub matched to my speakers is just too much for an apartment, or even small house. If you look at the frequency response, you'll see that (for mine at least) towers cover 98% of the frequency range. I'd rather have the missing range than a wimpy sub. But thats just me.

My speakers:

http://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/klipsch-rf3_e.html

Down to 38hz is really low, considering you'll only hear down to ~22hz, so till i have a large living room, no sub for me. I'm happy with them rolling off at a frequency that doesn't shake the walls but still feels kinda 'boomy'

 

[joecool]

i'm thinking that may be my problem - since i didn't have a sub, i set my speakers to large (according to the manual this will divert low range to the speakers to compensate for the lack of a sub); when i added the sub i enabled that channel but didn't change the speakers to small. i'll try this tonight, and maybe break out the matrix or master and commander - truely an awesome movie!

If your speakers are still set to "large", then most receivers will feed all the regular bass to the speakers and only effects to the sub.
If you set them to small, then all the excess lower frequency stuff will be sent to the sub.
BIG difference.

I'm sure that's it then - you describe exactly what I experienced - nothing coming out of the sub except for special effects in fight scenes. Can't wait to try it with the settings fixed!

 

[Excelsior]

A good sub adds a lot to both movies AND music.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: jdoggg12
<-- audiophile - i know what i'm missing w/o a sub, but you have to match all the speakers for the system to sound good. A sub matched to my speakers is just too much for an apartment, or even small house. If you look at the frequency response, you'll see that (for mine at least) towers cover 98% of the frequency range. I'd rather have the missing range than a wimpy sub. But thats just me.

My speakers:

http://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/klipsch-rf3_e.html

Down to 38hz is really low, considering you'll only hear down to ~22hz, so till i have a large living room, no sub for me. I'm happy with them rolling off at a frequency that doesn't shake the walls but still feels kinda 'boomy'

I'm familiar with the RF-3s.

As long as you realize you're missing an entire OCTAVE. The feel and sound from the 20-40 Hz range is necessary to really get the most out of movies. Give it a shot sometime.