Subwoofer Craze

[Rubycon]

I do miss the big box of yesterday's hifi.

These guys (little looney?) put 38,000 watts through a "woofer" at (no surprise) 60Hz.

I guess I shouldn't call them looney after all-

Many years ago I used to grab bare inputs of bass amps and the hum would make the ports resonate and blow the stage curtains (and dresses! :Q) WAY up! 50Hz power was great because it moved a LOT more air than 60Hz power in the 'States.

 

[EvilYoda]

I still have to listen to one of the new JL Fathom's...actually made Class A on Stereophile's Recommended Components list, IIRC. I still love my little Velodyne DD12...I don't know what I'd do w/o it.

 

[Skotty]

Originally posted by: Nutdotnet
Nowadays I think the term "woofer" has really gone by the way side.

Typically speakers are coming in three varieties. The tweeter, the mid, and the subwoofer.

As long as you purchase quality components that give you the frequency range that you're after then I think you'll be in business.

Would you go with sealed enclosures for your home application? I see accomplishing this in one of two ways. One, you build some floor-standing enclosures that include all three drivers, or two, you build two bookshelf speakers and one separate subwoofer enclosure.

Which one are you leaning towards, the floor-standing setup?

Floor-standing.

A lot of pre-built systems these days seem to rely on a separate subwoofer encloser for almost all of the bass, and I just don't think that's right. In my opinion, the front stereo speakers should have good quality good sized woofers in them capable of standing their own ground. Then you can add an extra subwoofer if really desired.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Skotty

Originally posted by: Nutdotnet
Nowadays I think the term "woofer" has really gone by the way side.

Typically speakers are coming in three varieties. The tweeter, the mid, and the subwoofer.

As long as you purchase quality components that give you the frequency range that you're after then I think you'll be in business.

Would you go with sealed enclosures for your home application? I see accomplishing this in one of two ways. One, you build some floor-standing enclosures that include all three drivers, or two, you build two bookshelf speakers and one separate subwoofer enclosure.

Which one are you leaning towards, the floor-standing setup?

Floor-standing.

A lot of pre-built systems these days seem to rely on a separate subwoofer encloser for almost all of the bass, and I just don't think that's right. In my opinion, the front stereo speakers should have good quality good sized woofers in them capable of standing their own ground. Then you can add an extra subwoofer if really desired.

It would be nice if we all had fullrange speakers, but the dedicated subwoofer and smaller speakers design works pretty well
You can get pretty good bass extension from speakers with ~6.5" woofers in them.

I like that you have more customizability with the option to pick your sub independently from your speakers. It's also easier to get good powerful low frequency bass output from a subwoofer with dedicated amp vs. having your receiver try to do everything.

Especially when there's more than two speakers, I like being able to get the lower frequencies from all channels go to a dedicated sub (subs). It would cost a LOT more to get good bass extension from all speakers and get good results.

 

[thomsbrain]

i'm guessing what you really want is just a set of stereo speakers with big woofers already inside of them?

if so, check out the Klipsch heritage series. They have several speakers that have 15" woofers. my brother has a set of La Scalas. they are extremely high efficiency, so they don't take much amplifier power to play really loud. bass response is very deep, but it is not hyped up like you get with most people's sub-equipped systems. with no EQ, these are not "chest-pounders," though with EQ, they can reproduce as much bass as you can feed them. it's up to you if that's the sound you are looking for. they are also super clear, with a lot emphasis on the mid-range, and stellar imaging. bring money.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: thomsbrain
bring money.

:laugh: yep

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Originally posted by: thomsbrain
i'm guessing what you really want is just a set of stereo speakers with big woofers already inside of them?

if so, check out the Klipsch heritage series. They have several speakers that have 15" woofers. my brother has a set of La Scalas. they are extremely high efficiency, so they don't take much amplifier power to play really loud. bass response is very deep, but it is not hyped up like you get with most people's sub-equipped systems. with no EQ, these are not "chest-pounders," though with EQ, they can reproduce as much bass as you can feed them. it's up to you if that's the sound you are looking for. they are also super clear, with a lot emphasis on the mid-range, and stellar imaging. bring money.

:thumbsup:

I'm an old school audiophile myself. My home stereo consists of 2 Klipsch Kornerhorns with 18's in the bottom, 2 la scallas w/15's, and 2 KG1's w/12's mounted up high, driven by a Crowne 1000 watt amp. My neighbors hate me

 

[Netopia]

Madisound is the place to go if you are serious about building your own. I would also suggest picking up a copy of "The Loudspeaker Cookbook".

As others have said, bring money (LOTS of money). If you are going to design them yourself and want them to be good, bring math... LOTS of MATH... and patience, since a speaker that looks great on paper can sound like junk in real life.

Joe

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

There are also some pre-designed ones that you could build from parts

examples: http://www.partsexpress.com/projectshowcase/homeaudio.cfm

 

[marincounty]

I think what has happened is that as people started to prefer smaller loudspeakers and the industry responded, the woofers were removed from the cabinet and put into a separate "subwoofer".
It's unfortunate this has happened as it's better to have stereo woofers, better power handling, lower distortion, and an easier crossover. However, the overall quality of speakers is way up, due to better science and technology.
The solution? Build it yourself ftw.
Madisound is great and has lots of kits for noobs. Also look at parts express, e-speakers and zalytron.

IMHO it has to be at least 12" diameter to be a subwoofer, anything else is just a woofer.

 

[Nutdotnet]

Originally posted by: Excelsior
Thats really incorrect. In the driver world there is still very much a tweeter, midrange, mid-woofer, woofer, subwoofer. Each has their place...

Uh...not really, not in general consumer applications...and since that is what we're talking about....

I'll just leave it at that.

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: Skotty
The other day I was looking around to see what kind of home stereo speakers there are. Oddly, I couldn't find any speaker sets that had large woofers (most had nothing over 6.5" tops). Some of them (maybe all, I don't remember) you could get separate subwoofers for.

So then I was thinking maybe I would just build my own when the time comes. A set of nice tweeters, midranges, and a couple of 8", 10", or 12" woofers, with some nice crossovers. I looked around at Crutchfield and what did I find? No woofers to be found. Only subwoofers. Where are the woofers?

Now originally, a subwoofer was a separate speaker for hitting the really low bass notes, and they were dual voice coil. Did they just rename regular woofers "subwoofers" because the name was popular? If not, where did all the woofers go?

Madisound, Partsexpress, Adire

Cheers!

 

[Skotty]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: Skotty

Originally posted by: Nutdotnet
Nowadays I think the term "woofer" has really gone by the way side.

Typically speakers are coming in three varieties. The tweeter, the mid, and the subwoofer.

As long as you purchase quality components that give you the frequency range that you're after then I think you'll be in business.

Would you go with sealed enclosures for your home application? I see accomplishing this in one of two ways. One, you build some floor-standing enclosures that include all three drivers, or two, you build two bookshelf speakers and one separate subwoofer enclosure.

Which one are you leaning towards, the floor-standing setup?

Floor-standing.

A lot of pre-built systems these days seem to rely on a separate subwoofer encloser for almost all of the bass, and I just don't think that's right. In my opinion, the front stereo speakers should have good quality good sized woofers in them capable of standing their own ground. Then you can add an extra subwoofer if really desired.

It would be nice if we all had fullrange speakers, but the dedicated subwoofer and smaller speakers design works pretty well
You can get pretty good bass extension from speakers with ~6.5" woofers in them.

I like that you have more customizability with the option to pick your sub independently from your speakers. It's also easier to get good powerful low frequency bass output from a subwoofer with dedicated amp vs. having your receiver try to do everything.

Especially when there's more than two speakers, I like being able to get the lower frequencies from all channels go to a dedicated sub (subs). It would cost a LOT more to get good bass extension from all speakers and get good results.

That's a good point. You need a pretty powerful quality receiver to power the kind of speakers I'm talking about. Or a separate amp, which can bring the price up quite a bit I imagine.

Thanks to all for the info and suggestions. Much appreciated.

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: Skotty

That's a good point. You need a pretty powerful quality receiver to power the kind of speakers I'm talking about.

270 WPC was plenty.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Skotty
The other day I was looking around to see what kind of home stereo speakers there are. Oddly, I couldn't find any speaker sets that had large woofers (most had nothing over 6.5" tops). Some of them (maybe all, I don't remember) you could get separate subwoofers for.

So then I was thinking maybe I would just build my own when the time comes. A set of nice tweeters, midranges, and a couple of 8", 10", or 12" woofers, with some nice crossovers. I looked around at Crutchfield and what did I find? No woofers to be found. Only subwoofers. Where are the woofers?

Now originally, a subwoofer was a separate speaker for hitting the really low bass notes, and they were dual voice coil. Did they just rename regular woofers "subwoofers" because the name was popular? If not, where did all the woofers go?

You are checking consumer places not audiophile.

How about these:

http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/klipschorn.aspx

http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/belle-klipsch.aspx

http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/heresy-ii.aspx

http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/heresy-iii.aspx

http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/la-scala.aspx

http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/la-scala-ii.aspx

http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/cornwall-iii.aspx

 

[Tiamat]

the larger woofers beam at midrange frequencies if the crossover is not steep enough. Also, people want narrower baffles, so that at max an 8' woofer can fit. Thats why towers have multiple smaller woofers so that the radiating area equates to that of a larger woofer, while having better control/uniformity, thus less distortion.

 

[hanoverphist]

Originally posted by: Excelsior
Thats really incorrect. In the driver world there is still very much a tweeter, midrange, mid-woofer, woofer, subwoofer. Each has their place...

i agree with that. its also why my old impala had 2 12" woofers for pound and a 15" sub for the rumble. put together with the rest of the 8 speakers in the front area there was no freq it wouldnt play. used to annoy me to no end when id be listening to songs and part of the bass was unreachable. im no expert, but my friend is... he owns a custom shop that does very high end systems. he didnt build mine tho, it was my own little frankenstein project. gotta love the size of the 76 impala trunks!

 

[manowar821]

If you have a few devices designed to play only their part of the sound, instead of one large unspecialized device, the quality and range of the sound is far higher.

They have separate sub woofers everywhere now because it's just plain better. Of course, you still need to worry about the mid and high range sound, so tweeters and midrange woofers are necessary.

 

[Rubycon]

When 15 and 18's won't cut it, 30's will have to do.

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This person likes a lot of bass.

 

[EvilYoda]

Aren't those EV subs quite old? I remember seeing a batch pop up on diyaudio...I'm not sure.

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: EvilYoda
Aren't those EV subs quite old? I remember seeing a batch pop up on diyaudio...I'm not sure.

The original (Alnico) 30W was 50's vintage.

 

[Viperoni]

Originally posted by: Rubycon
When 15 and 18's won't cut it, 30's will have to do.

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This person likes a lot of bass.

The sheer lack of dynamic compression of that system would be mind boggling.
It would really be an experience to say the least.

This coming from a guy with 2 18's in a sealed box running off 2kw RMS, in a wagon

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: Tiamat
while having better control/uniformity, thus less distortion.

Proof?

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: Rubycon
When 15 and 18's won't cut it, 30's will have to do.

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This person likes a lot of bass.

bum horns

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: Viperoni


The sheer lack of dynamic compression of that system would be mind boggling.
It would really be an experience to say the least.

This coming from a guy with 2 18's in a sealed box running off 2kw RMS, in a wagon

Compression whether in the recording or from the playback system running out of steam is bad - utter evil - satan - 666, etc. :|

This may not sound very special on most systems, but ones with low end wallop, it comes to life very well and gets the air moving.

You know it's getting loud when you look at a window that's 1/2" thick fire tempered glass and you can see a reflection of a light moving like some invisible ogre is pounding relentlessly on it. :Q