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Subpoena question

F

Farang

Lifer
I had a former employer send me a cease and desist for a noncompete. I ignored it, and it's not an issue now, but it got me thinking.

I have a permanent address different from where I actually live. Very few places have this address (maybe Amazon and some others), and not the employer. If they had wanted to sue me, is it possible they couldn't because they have no idea where I am? I would think most stuff with my address is confidential info.

Would be interested to read in subpoena avoidance stories, like I said this isn't an issue anymore but just got me curious
 
I have no clue but I'd imagine that it'd be you as a person they'd sue and not you as in your person@ a location.
 
dabuddha said:
I have no clue but I'd imagine that it'd be you as a person they'd sue and not you as in your person@ a location.
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Yea but doesn't a lawsuit depend on a person being notified of it? If I never get served a subpoena I'd think I could never have a judgment against me.

Also the noncompete violating work I was doing, I was doing remotely. What if I were in a foreign country?
 
Uh, why would they send you a subpoena?

A subpoena is a demand to provide evidence (which may include yourself) for a court proceeding.

...is there a court proceeding?
 
Farang said:
Yea but doesn't a lawsuit depend on a person being notified of it? If I never get served a subpoena I'd think I could never have a judgment against me.

Also the noncompete violating work I was doing, I was doing remotely. What if I were in a foreign country?
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No.
 
phucheneh said:
Uh, why would they send you a subpoena?

A subpoena is a demand to provide evidence (which may include yourself) for a court proceeding.

...is there a court proceeding?
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How would he know, if they sent the subpoena to a different address?
 
Farang said:
I had a former employer send me a cease and desist for a noncompete. I ignored it, and it's not an issue now, but it got me thinking.
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Ahh, the good old ignorance defense!

It's a good thing most non-competes are invalid.
 
Reading up on this a bit more I guess they could prove they tried hard enough but couldn't find me, and get a default judgment.
 
sixone said:
How would he know, if they sent the subpoena to a different address?
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Well, one, things are usually only served via mail when lines of communication are already open, and it's assumed that the person will willingly verify receipt of the item.

Two, again, he's talking about being served a subpoena after a cease and desist. There is a whole middle part missing there. I.e. summons ('you been sued, son').
 
phucheneh said:
Well, one, things are usually only served via mail when lines of communication are already open, and it's assumed that the person will willingly verify receipt of the item.

Two, again, he's talking about being served a subpoena after a cease and desist. There is a whole middle part missing there. I.e. summons ('you been sued, son').
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Maybe I'm using the wrong word but you have to be served to get sued, I thought. In small claims the judge was throwing out suits if they hadn't been served even if the defendant was in the courtroom. It's like the first question she asked and 90% of the people lost their case because of it
 
I've been called into depositions for work a handful of times. Each of those was delivered by hand to me when I was at work (even delivered when I changed jobs once).
If you were being sued and they don't have your actual address I think they just put your name and list the last known address in the suit (at least all of the ones I read at work are like that).
 
Yeah, you're thinking of a summons, which is a demand to appear in court. Different states have different laws. Here, a county sheriff will hand deliver it to your house after it is filed with the court. The fee for serving process is basically including in the filing fee.

Default judgements are for if the person was served and did not show up. Again, state law will dictate how far they have to go to make their 'best effort' to serve you.
 
Farang said:
Reading up on this a bit more I guess they could prove they tried hard enough but couldn't find me, and get a default judgment.
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I would say no. But if they really wanted to find you, I imagine they could, assuming you're in the States. The employer has your personal info, SSN/Bday..maybe DL#.
 
highland145 said:
I would say no. But if they really wanted to find you, I imagine they could, assuming you're in the States. The employer has your personal info, SSN/Bday..maybe DL#.
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When I say permanent address I mean I use it for all important stuff tied to SSN, DL#, etc. And unless they are fraudulently using that info to gain access to my accounts I don't see how it helps them find where I live
 
SunnyD said:
Ahh, the good old ignorance defense!

It's a good thing most non-competes are invalid.
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Not true at all, unless you happen to live in California.

As for the OP, yes, they would have to serve you personally consistent with your state's laws in order to sue you. The specifics of what is required for personal service vary from state to state, but in general service on your former residence can't constitute legal service.

As for how they'd find you, you would be amazed what information a private investigator can piece together using public records. I have never been unable to find anyone I needed to find with the help of a good PI. I have a PI in Michigan who will pull up a stunningly complete background report on anyone for $50, in less than 15 minutes. Thomson West has a very robust tool for this, PeopleMap - http://static.legalsolutions.thomsonreuters.com/product_files//westlaw/wlawdoc/wlres/prwlpmap.pdf - and I'm sure he's using that or something similar.
 
Don Vito Corleone said:
Not true at all, unless you happen to live in California.

As for the OP, yes, they would have to serve you personally consistent with your state's laws in order to sue you. The specifics of what is required for personal service vary from state to state, but in general service on your former residence can't constitute legal service.

As for how they'd find you, you would be amazed what information a private investigator can piece together using public records. I have never been unable to find anyone I needed to find with the help of a good PI. I have a PI in Michigan who will pull up a stunningly complete background report on anyone for $50, in less than 15 minutes. Thomson West has a very robust tool for this, PeopleMap - http://static.legalsolutions.thomsonreuters.com/product_files//westlaw/wlawdoc/wlres/prwlpmap.pdf - and I'm sure he's using that or something similar.
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Interesting stuff. I think if I am in a foreign country they're screwed though, if I'm just paying with cash and I cross a land border. They might be able to find out I left the country but after that the trail would be cold

Like I said this is not actually an issue anymore, in my state they have waited too long to sue me. You have to prove that the violation urgently needs to be stopped
 
Don Vito Corleone said:
Not true at all, unless you happen to live in California.

As for the OP, yes, they would have to serve you personally consistent with your state's laws in order to sue you. The specifics of what is required for personal service vary from state to state, but in general service on your former residence can't constitute legal service.

As for how they'd find you, you would be amazed what information a private investigator can piece together using public records. I have never been unable to find anyone I needed to find with the help of a good PI. I have a PI in Michigan who will pull up a stunningly complete background report on anyone for $50, in less than 15 minutes. Thomson West has a very robust tool for this, PeopleMap - http://static.legalsolutions.thomsonreuters.com/product_files//westlaw/wlawdoc/wlres/prwlpmap.pdf - and I'm sure he's using that or something similar.
Click to expand...

PeopleMap is great. Sometimes I feel dirty combing through people's driving, property, tax, business, bankruptcy, etc. records, but then I realize I'm an attorney and that dirty feeling should be natural. It's surprising how many lawyers don't even know that's there on Westlaw. Have to agree with you - can't say I've ever been involved in a case where we have not been able to find someone (who was physically in the USA).
 
Farang said:
When I say permanent address I mean I use it for all important stuff tied to SSN, DL#, etc. And unless they are fraudulently using that info to gain access to my accounts I don't see how it helps them find where I live
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Wouldn't be surprised if Amazon sells your info to the credit bureaus. Many companies in the US do it...cable, cell phone, pizza joints...It's real hard to "live off the grid."

If you rent, your landlord probably pulled your credit so that would give them a place to start. Buying, county property searches...PITA but could be done.

And, depending on the state, an adult can be served at your "permanent address."

IMO, the amount of $$ they're talking about would be proportional to their efforts.
 
Red Squirrel said:
Big company vs person. Company always wins. They'll find a way to win if there is anything that gets in their way.
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No doubt.. scary when you get a letter from a corporate attorney. No skin off their back to sue you they're already paying the lawyer fees regardless.
 
Jeeebus said:
PeopleMap is great. Sometimes I feel dirty combing through people's driving, property, tax, business, bankruptcy, etc. records, but then I realize I'm an attorney and that dirty feeling should be natural. It's surprising how many lawyers don't even know that's there on Westlaw. Have to agree with you - can't say I've ever been involved in a case where we have not been able to find someone (who was physically in the USA).
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Didn't you sue an IP address once?
 
Funny anecdote: I got a flyer from the University of Phoenix the other day. That's obviously not terribly abnormal...but it was personalized.

To paraphrase, the cover letter said 'hey, we see you've sued someone before! ...wanna be a lawyer? give us money and we'll give you paper.'

I guess they go through court records and send 'targetted advertising' to the addresses they pull (maybe it's just for people who sue someone, or otherwise represent themselves pro se). I dunno, I was tickled by it...UofP, your classiness never disappoints.

Anyhow, I think OP has his answer. You should be able to find any and all state laws through google. There are some good sites that have the code for every state listed for free, but I can't think of the names...google will, though.

This is way too hypothetical, though. A lawyer letter (your C&D) is pretty far from an actual suit being filed. General answer is just that 'yes, you can avoid a summons...for a while.' But you might as well bite the bullet and acknowledge it. If it's a small claims thing, you'd be surprised at how well you can take care of your own ass with a little dedicated research...they aren't sending their super-duper ace crack trial lawyer after you, and small claims/general sessions proceedings are rather informal.

Hiding from their action will only worsen your case. Much better off just talking to their lawyer. I would bet that they could be convinced to leave you alone if they think you have nothing to hide and they have nothing to gain. If they actually sue, you better give your non-compete contract a damn thorough looking over, know what their demands are, and be able to properly evaluate whether you need to seek counsel (depending on the state, they may not be liable for reimbursing your legal expensive whatsoever, even if you win or the case is dismissed).

edit: how are you 'in the clear'? Statues of limitations, AFAIK, are for criminal prosecution. There's probably precedent for civil stuff, but I don't think there are any hard laws in place.

But, for a third or fourth time: laws are based upon the state. There's a reason lawyers generally want nothing to do with advising or pursuing a case outside their own state. I've had actual friends from out of state still pretty much refuse any advice...any question, even in casual discussion, is just met with 'well, I don't know the laws there...'
 
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