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Subaru developing turbo for the brz

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the turbo has to be placed in front of the engine near the bottom for that engine design. it's been shown that way in the new forester/legacy and japanese specs have that 2.0L DI turbo making 280-290hp

the sti should be mid 350's at the current pace
 
These rumors are very murky. A 'STi' version alone doesn't mean a turbo at all; it could just be a tuned version of the current car with better suspension, handling, brakes, custom body enhancements. Think 'Nismo' edition for the current Z. Not really more power (maybe 15 more HP?) but better all around. Essentially a 'track pack'.

Subaru has been pretty adamant about it NOT getting a turbo, but that's certainly possible. It would be great if they do though..

Edit: A Turbo STi version would easily be the same price as the current STi. This would likely cannibalize existing sales, and I wonder if they want to do that. The BRZ was to be an affordable car, and doubling the price to add a turbo and make it STi seems pretty steep.
 
STI with no turbo would really dilute the STI brand, in my opinion.

I imagine that their insistence of its non-existence has to do with agreements between subaru and toyota.
 
IMG_6048.jpg


turbos for these new direct injection line of engines are typically in the front under the engine... don't think you can put a big turbo under there... time will tell what the plans for the performance stuff is going to be like.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is what an engine option for the new Impreza will be like or any other cars they make due to alot of people switching to 1.6-1.8L Turbos to get high 30 low 40 mpg's
 
The HP issue is the only thing making me shy away from that car. I wonder if this will kill Impreza sales though.
 
Fritzo said:
The HP issue is the only thing making me shy away from that car. I wonder if this will kill Impreza sales though.
Click to expand...

It shouldn't kill Impreza sales because the Impreza is a ton more car for the $. The non-turbo current BRZ is the same price as the Impreza, and the Impreza comes with AWD and Turbo (and usable space). $1k in mods on a WRX = ~300hp daily driver of outstanding balance.

A hypothetical turbo BRZ / BRZ STi will cost at LEAST $34.5k, mark my words. At that price, it is a pretty stiff pill to swallow, particularly if it's not a weekender car.

Perhaps the toughest thing with the BRZ is that the MX-5 is actually faster in the curves, and not that far behind in the straights. Considering the price gap and the delicious aftermarket for Miatas, boosting a NEW Miata and getting way better performance than a BRZ all-around is easily done for basically the price of a base BRZ.

About the only reason to get the BRZ/FR-S is if you just can't live without the styling. The Miata already beats it in handling, and for the same $ can be a good bit faster as well.
 
A hypothetical turbo BRZ / BRZ STi will cost at LEAST $34.5k, mark my words. At that price, it is a pretty stiff pill to swallow, particularly if it's not a weekender car.

The S2000 was a $32k car brand new in 2000 and people still bought it, although at about 10-12k per year till 2006. By the end of its run it had adjusted for inflation for 35k.


350Z started at $27k base in 2003

370z base model is 32-35k depending on options/transmission

I think if that car is that much money and still sells the BRZ infringes into some steep territory especially as its 5.0 money that right now the 370Z is contending with. Also cannot forget about the genesis either
 
SpatiallyAware said:
STI with no turbo would really dilute the STI brand, in my opinion.

I imagine that their insistence of its non-existence has to do with agreements between subaru and toyota.
Click to expand...

Or maybe they don't want people to NOT buy because they know a better one is coming?
 
tcG said:
You can already turbo this car... just buy a kit.
Click to expand...

Some people buy new cars for the warranty.

Also, installing an aftermarket turbo kit requires pretty extensive modifications if you want it to run like a factory-boosted car.
 
*shrug* Chances are nothing will go wrong if you do it right and your car isn't defective. Warranties are overrated.

Cars like this aren't priceless Ferrari's that should be kept relatively stock... they are meant to be modifed. The important stuff - weight, balance, COG, that you can't change - on the FR-S/BRZ is all good. Engine power on the other hand, I look at as a totally flexible specification, depending on how much money you want to put into increasing it. Basically what I'm saying is that this car not having enough power isn't really a good reason to discount it, especially if you are comparing it to cars that cost $7k+ more, a price difference which would be enough to have a turbo installed.
 
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What I'm talking about:

Modifying engine tuning so that the ECM programming will respond properly to boost. Typically, this at least means 'chipping,' unless you have an ECM that can simply be loaded with modified software. Then you have to worry about how good the software is versus the likely much more well-developed factory setup.

Worse case, this means a completely new engine management system, which can be a total whore to wire in without driving a lot of factory components insane. This may include replacement sensors.

Then there's finding room for the turbo, intercooler, and piping without upsetting anything else...properly modifying the exhaust manifold and downpipe (possibly other exhaust parts)...tapping into the right spots for your oil feed and return...modifying any intake connection that won't respond properly to boost as opposed to vacuum...keeping a functional PCV system...

Then there are things like...can the MAF and/or MAP still do their job with the increased airflow? Do you need bigger injectors or more fuel volume being fed to them?

I could kind of go on and on with 'what ifs.'

...basically, it's a lot more than just 'buy a turbo, intercooler, and some piping.'
 
tcG said:
You can already turbo this car... just buy a kit.
Click to expand...

You say that like it's something that just bolts on. The first place to add a turbo to the BRZ in the US is just 2 blocks east of my work. They were actually on a radio talk show last weekend and it's a big deal to install, expensive, and it voids your warranty.

No thanks.
 
Fritzo said:
You say that like it's something that just bolts on. The first place to add a turbo to the BRZ in the US is just 2 blocks east of my work. They were actually on a radio talk show last weekend and it's a big deal to install, expensive, and it voids your warranty.

No thanks.
Click to expand...


Yes, but that's because the car is so new. The miata didn't have bolt-on kits for a few years either, the tuners need some time to mess with it all.

From what (little) I've read, it seems as though the motor responds very very well to mild boost. It won't be long before they have $4-5k kits that are, essentially, bolt-on.
 
Arkaign said:
Perhaps the toughest thing with the BRZ is that the MX-5 is actually faster in the curves, and not that far behind in the straights. Considering the price gap and the delicious aftermarket for Miatas, boosting a NEW Miata and getting way better performance than a BRZ all-around is easily done for basically the price of a base BRZ.
Click to expand...
I wonder why that is. The slightly lower CoM isn't worth the front-heaviness, or maybe the BRZ chassis is inferior?
 
phucheneh said:
What I'm talking about:

Modifying engine tuning so that the ECM programming will respond properly to boost. Typically, this at least means 'chipping,' unless you have an ECM that can simply be loaded with modified software. Then you have to worry about how good the software is versus the likely much more well-developed factory setup.

Worse case, this means a completely new engine management system, which can be a total whore to wire in without driving a lot of factory components insane. This may include replacement sensors.

Then there's finding room for the turbo, intercooler, and piping without upsetting anything else...properly modifying the exhaust manifold and downpipe (possibly other exhaust parts)...tapping into the right spots for your oil feed and return...modifying any intake connection that won't respond properly to boost as opposed to vacuum...keeping a functional PCV system...

Then there are things like...can the MAF and/or MAP still do their job with the increased airflow? Do you need bigger injectors or more fuel volume being fed to them?

I could kind of go on and on with 'what ifs.'

...basically, it's a lot more than just 'buy a turbo, intercooler, and some piping.'
Click to expand...

I am pretty sure dynosty has this car pretty well dialed in with their turbo kit. they would be the ones to contact if you want to do a conversion.

http://www.dynosty.com/2012/08/scion-fr-s-subaru-brz-fa20-highest-horsepower-set-at-324whp/
 
Howard said:
I wonder why that is. The slightly lower CoM isn't worth the front-heaviness, or maybe the BRZ chassis is inferior?
Click to expand...

The front-heaviness of the Miata is 1-2%... not a huge deal. The Miata is lighter overall by several hundred lbs, which helps a lot; and it has double a-arm suspension, whereas the Toyobaru has McPherson up front and a multi-link setup in the rear. The double a-arm with help correct camber change with roll, while the McPhearson will not, sacrificing some grip.
 
JCH13 said:
The front-heaviness of the Miata is 1-2%... not a huge deal. The Miata is lighter overall by several hundred lbs, which helps a lot; and it has double a-arm suspension, whereas the Toyobaru has McPherson up front and a multi-link setup in the rear. The double a-arm with help correct camber change with roll, while the McPhearson will not, sacrificing some grip.
Click to expand...
No, I'm saying the BRZ has worse balance.
 
SpatiallyAware said:
Yes, but that's because the car is so new. The miata didn't have bolt-on kits for a few years either, the tuners need some time to mess with it all.

From what (little) I've read, it seems as though the motor responds very very well to mild boost. It won't be long before they have $4-5k kits that are, essentially, bolt-on.
Click to expand...

BTW- here's the company's website. They have the kits up for order now, but no price mentioned.

http://www.acceleratedperformance.com/main.html
 
Arkaign said:
Yep, and you are correct. JCH basically explains why MX-5 > BRZ.
Click to expand...

Two items on my wish list:

1) Introduce a Mazdaspeed MX5 again. The 2004-2005 model wasn't good enough, and they never replaced it after the factory burned down.

2) Add a few more inches of leg room so my 6'4" frame will fit in it.
 
Howard said:
No, I'm saying the BRZ has worse balance.
Click to expand...

Ah, well, there you go. More front weight on top of the McPhearson struts isn't doing the car any favors.

Arkaign said:
Yep, and you are correct. JCH basically explains why MX-5 > BRZ.
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong, it's marvelously balanced, but possibly sacrificing some ultimate turning capability that an expert would only ever see at a race track. On the street you'd never really know.
 
FWIW, my neighbor bought a new BRZ this summer. He just called me and wants to use my shop this weekend. He bought a full exhaust system for it. headers and all. Kind of interested in getting a good look at the car. Only seen it in passing
 
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