Sub-$250 musical subwoofer?

[Exterous]

Edit:for the record, every person I have talked to on audio forums has said that polk makes great speakers for the price, but in terms of subwoofers, they really aren't good compared to other brands. So my recommendation of Polk Speakers speaks nothing about the subwoofers. Kind of odd that they make great speakers for the price, but don't do well at all subwoofer wise (in terms of audiophile perception of course).

For some reason the subwoofer realm lends itself to a number of very specialized vendors which I think is where the problem comes in.

As for the OP - some of this will depend on the type of music you listen to and how good the source material actually is. A lot of music is highly compressed into a small band of sound and they seem to particularly cut off the lower frequencies. If a lot of your music is the over engineered compressed shit you won't need a lot from your sub. If you are lucky enough that the artists\music you like is actually well mastered you will want to pay more attention (and maybe spend more $). I don't know what your constraints are but when I was looking the $400 range was miles beyond the abilities of the sub $250 range

There are a lot of options out there but some of my thoughts:
-Outlaw M8 ($250) Not the most powerful but some of the best responsiveness
-HSU STF-2 ($340) Obviously over your budget but a lot more power
-Klipsch RW-12d ($250) if you can still find it. Better power than the M8 I believe but maybe a tad less responsiveness. Probably the best uption for $250 but the least likely to actually be found

I know Energy and Emotiva have had good musical subs in the past but the Ultra line from Emotiva is apparently discontinued and I am not as familiar with Energy. I would still recommend looking into those companies though as they have a good track record.

My personal opinion would be to just suck it up and get something from Rythmik but you'd need to increase your budget

 

[Exterous]

The polks seem nice but, if music is the primary (well, only) use (indie rock, some electronic, some soul/r&B, hip hop as well - source would be iTunes and vinyl), please suggest speakers that don't need subs - I'm ok with that and can up my budget accordingly - say $400 ish (used/whatever) for the speakers.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find speakers that would allow you to go eliminate the sub for $400 or anywhere near that

 

[Anubis]

the other option thats inbetween budget and expensive is DIY or better yet AIY (assemble it yourself) that can produce very good results for not a lot of money

parts express sells these in various sizes, for around 200$ for the box and driver and you would need to spend another 200 or so on a plate amp

10"
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-7095

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-752

as for speakers that can play full range well you prob are not going to find them super cheap

 

[queequeg99]

Deep down bass possible at all with bookshelf speakers?

This is a tall order. With a small enough sealed room, you might realize some decent pressure-vessel room gain (what you experience in a car). But your room is not tiny so the effect will likely be mitigated to some extent. You can also corner load the speakers. This is a popular trick with subs because you can often hide the sub behind a piece of furniture in a corner and people can't locate the sub with their ears. Corner loading can work with bookshelf speakers (it does in my exercise room). However, you might not want to put bookshelf speakers in a corner for any number of room design and sound issues (they will be visibly, easily located by ear, might create some undesirable frequency response issues that could be more noticeable in the mid range, and just might not be appropriate in a corner given the design of the room).

 

[NutBucket]

It depends on what you're after. I don't expect my floors to bounce listening to Led Zeppelin. Any decent floor-standing speaker should suffice.

 

[Howard]

Who said vintage audio can't sound good as well?

Audio gear that looks vintage, or is actually just old?

 

[Howard]

Deep down bass possible at all with bookshelf speakers?

http://www.salksound.com/wp/?p=56

 

[NutBucket]

Audio gear that looks vintage, or is actually just old?

Audio gear that is actually old. My newest piece of audio gear is probably my Sony CD changer...5-disc carousel ES model with rosewood side pieces.

 

[Howard]

Audio gear that is actually old. My newest piece of audio gear is probably my Sony CD changer...5-disc carousel ES model with rosewood side pieces.

It's possible to find old gear that sounds good, but the issue is, none of it was designed with today's knowledge of psychoacoustics and other technical improvements in mind.

 

[bigi]

Spend a little more and be happy.

 

[slackerinabox]

Ha, this is why forums are useless - when I mention a budget the immediate answer is "you can't listen to music for less than a few grand!" instead of "well, for your budget there will be sacrifices but brand X is pretty ok!"

 

[gus6464]

Have you tried audiogon? You can get some sweet deals on gear there. I got my Parasound Halo gear there in pristine condition for less than the preamp would've cost if I would have bought brand new.

 

[gus6464]

Some audiogon finds that I bet they will take a lower offer

Epos Epic 1
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/mo...tors-2013-10-03-speakers-70119-new-orleans-la

Dali Lektor 2
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/mo...ndition-2013-09-26-speakers-48124-dearborn-mi

I have owned the Epos ELS-3 and the Dali Ikon in the past so you can't go wrong with either of these brands. Epos will have that British forward sound and the Dali will have crisp highs.

 

[Howard]

Ha, this is why forums are useless - when I mention a budget the immediate answer is "you can't listen to music for less than a few grand!" instead of "well, for your budget there will be sacrifices but brand X is pretty ok!"

You're still an idiot.

 

[Anubis]

Ha, this is why forums are useless - when I mention a budget the immediate answer is "you can't listen to music for less than a few grand!" instead of "well, for your budget there will be sacrifices but brand X is pretty ok!"

you got the suggestions you wanted in the first few posts

 

[Exterous]

Ha, this is why forums are useless - when I mention a budget the immediate answer is "you can't listen to music for less than a few grand!" instead of "well, for your budget there will be sacrifices but brand X is pretty ok!"

Yes so useless you got at least 6 recommendations in your budget as well as some suggestions for some related considerations. The immediate reaction was to stay within your budget too

 

[slackerinabox]

Yes so useless you got at least 6 recommendations in your budget as well as some suggestions for some related considerations. The immediate reaction was to stay within your budget too

Apologies, your earlier reply and some other replies were very useful, it's just quite annoying that the overwhelming response is either dismissive of budgets (as is common in audio circles it seems).

I'm probably going with one of the polks mentioned (the $169 on ebay). I'm curious based on great reviews (and rumors that it's sourced from HSU) about the dayton subs, but the price does seem too good to be true

 

[reallyscrued]

Wait...what kind of music do you enjoy listening to?

 

[Exterous]

Apologies, your earlier reply and some other replies were very useful, it's just quite annoying that the overwhelming response is either dismissive of budgets (as is common in audio circles it seems).

I'm probably going with one of the polks mentioned (the $169 on ebay). I'm curious based on great reviews (and rumors that it's sourced from HSU) about the dayton subs, but the price does seem too good to be true

Fair enough.

I will say that for the budget issue I'm willing to bet a lot of it comes from experience (at least mine does). I actually have a range of subwoofers in my house right now from a $30 sony sub I got used to a $150 infinity sub and a $600 Rythmik sub (as well as recently selling a $300 Velodyne sub)

The listening experiences are completely different. The $150 infinity sub does ok for the room its in for a fair number of songs (usually the common, shittily mastered ones). Those don't use the lower extensions often so its not noticeable when the thud of the subwoofer suddenly turns into a wimper at lower frequencies. However, for the ones that are produced well this is very distracting to the musicality of the song. Everything is going along at the expected levels and all of a sudden you have a massive drop in the sound for the low level that is not at all in keeping with the song

The Velodyne was the same way. Once I got the Rythmik I figured I would run the two together but I couldn't ever tell that the Velodyne was on even when I placed it right behind my chair. Now the low ends are amazing and there is never a worry my subwoofer won't be able to keep up with the music. Classical, Rock, R&B, Jazz, Electronic\Dubstep etc all benefit from the better quality

I'm not saying go out and spend $600 on a sub but thats why you will see these recommendations. The listening experience really is insanely different and its difficult to go back or imagine enjoying anything else which is why so many recommend increasing budgets

 

[slackerinabox]

Fair enough.

I will say that for the budget issue I'm willing to bet a lot of it comes from experience (at least mine does). I actually have a range of subwoofers in my house right now from a $30 sony sub I got used to a $150 infinity sub and a $600 Rythmik sub (as well as recently selling a $300 Velodyne sub)

The listening experiences are completely different. The $150 infinity sub does ok for the room its in for a fair number of songs (usually the common, shittily mastered ones). Those don't use the lower extensions often so its not noticeable when the thud of the subwoofer suddenly turns into a wimper at lower frequencies. However, for the ones that are produced well this is very distracting to the musicality of the song. Everything is going along at the expected levels and all of a sudden you have a massive drop in the sound for the low level that is not at all in keeping with the song

The Velodyne was the same way. Once I got the Rythmik I figured I would run the two together but I couldn't ever tell that the Velodyne was on even when I placed it right behind my chair. Now the low ends are amazing and there is never a worry my subwoofer won't be able to keep up with the music. Classical, Rock, R&B, Jazz, Electronic\Dubstep etc all benefit from the better quality

I'm not saying go out and spend $600 on a sub but thats why you will see these recommendations. The listening experience really is insanely different and its difficult to go back or imagine enjoying anything else which is why so many recommend increasing budgets

Appreciate the reply and apologize for the snark, I just think that audiophiles lack the concept of stages and compromise - you know, if you can't afford the latest I7 processor there's an AMD chip out there that's not bad. I know that's not an apples to apples comparison but I think it's unfair to say things like "your budget just sucks, there's no hope!" Whatever, it just rubs me the wrong way.

I agree with you that cheap subs tend to sound awful, I've had my collection of sonys and polks as well and they were all abysmal. I was just hoping that there were some hidden gems out there, and forum chatter elsewhere makes me hopeful that the dayton's the one (if I'm wrong there's craigslist).


I picked up the following and will report back for fun:

Budget system
1. Dayton subwoofer based on the cnet recommendation (referred to as surprisingly musical and fast) - $120 shipped
2. Pioneer Bookshelf speakers (andrew jones edition) - $80 [received, sound bloody wonderful even without a sub)
3. Vintage Marantz receiver - $60 shipped
4. Audio Technica turn table - $80
5. Airport express for airplay - already owned

So less than my budget by a good margin and sounds great so far (don't have the sub yet). I'm guessing that the $120 sub will need to be replaced in a few years

 

[NutBucket]

Which Marantz did you get? Be sure to go through it to make sure there aren't any components that need replacing.

 

[slackerinabox]

Which Marantz did you get? Be sure to go through it to make sure there aren't any components that need replacing.

A fairly low-end one, I figure this is a hobby and I'll upgrade in a year (it's pretty easy to resell this stuff here in NYC). Model numbers sr-25 or 225, low-wattage but restored by the seller so less stuff to worry about (and I live in a co-op so don't think I'll be playing my music at 11). I honestly liked the size more than anything, half-height won't bother the mrs. as much as a massive shelf system in our smallish apartment

 

[iRONic]

Budget system
1. Dayton subwoofer based on the cnet recommendation (referred to as surprisingly musical and fast) - $120 shipped
2. Pioneer Bookshelf speakers (andrew jones edition) - $80 [received, sound bloody wonderful even without a sub)
3. Vintage Marantz receiver - $60 shipped
4. Audio Technica turn table - $80
5. Airport express for airplay - already owned

Which model? Put a new cart on it and check the belt.

 

[slackerinabox]

Which model? Put a new cart on it and check the belt.

AT-LP60 . Don't know a thing about this stuff but seemed like a low-maintenance, low-end piece (new from Amazon).

Do you recommend any brands/model? I can return it pretty easily

 

[NutBucket]

Unless you're willing to take some risk on used gear there's not a whole lot of difference on the low-end for turntables. Its not until you hit about $400 or so that there's some higher quality stuff.

I use an 80's era Onkyo turntable that I picked up for $25 at a swapmeet. Of course I spent $80 on a belt and cartridge for it but I figure I still came out ahead with a nicer cart than something new.