Sub-$250 musical subwoofer?

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slackerinabox

Lifer
Mar 15, 2003
12,668
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I'm getting a set of pioneer bookshelf speakers and a stereo receiver (either vintage refurb or a low end Harmon Kardon) and would like to fill in the low end a bit with an 8" subwoofer.

I find all of the cheap subwoofers I've been buying (sony, polk, etc) are ok for home theater use but are way too muddy for music. Any suggestions? I'd honestly prefer low/moderate output to boomy, overpowering muddiness (and the listening room's pretty small too)
 
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slackerinabox

Lifer
Mar 15, 2003
12,668
103
106
NutBucket said:
I would just spend money on bigger speakers.
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That's a fine idea, I haven't bought anything yet (the andrew jones bookshelf speakers are my first choice due to stellar reviews). I'm completely open, I just need a forgiving and not analytical sound (warmer the better). Lots of my music will be from iTunes with the occassional LP
 
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gar655

Senior member
Mar 4, 2008
565
0
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freedomsbeat212 said:
I'm getting a set of pioneer bookshelf speakers and a stereo receiver (either vintage refurb or a low end Harmon Kardon) and would like to fill in the low end a bit with an 8" subwoofer.

I find all of the cheap subwoofers I've been buying (sony, polk, etc) are ok for home theater use but are way too muddy for music. Any suggestions? I'd honestly prefer low/moderate output to boomy, overpowering muddiness (and the listening room's pretty small too)
Click to expand...

$250 is a cheap sub woofer. They'll all be muddy, sloppy and mostly one note wonders.

You need to step to about the $500 range if you really want a good, musical sub.
 
Gintaras

Gintaras

Golden Member
Dec 28, 2000
1,892
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Why just simply not to explain to OP guy that there's no such thing - musical subwoofer...

Music is listened Stereo - Left and Right channels...That's how it was recorded.
OP didn't tell what he wants to listen - to CDs or LPs...
Very few albums are recently recorded and mixed in 5.1 setup.
True Stereo is , when used two mono amps.

No one does use subwoofer while listening Stereo Music...No company sells that...
 
SithSolo1

SithSolo1

Diamond Member
Mar 19, 2001
7,740
11
81
Gintaras said:
Why just simply not to explain to OP guy that there's no such thing - musical subwoofer...

Music is listened Stereo - Left and Right channels...That's how it was recorded.
OP didn't tell what he wants to listen - to CDs or LPs...
Very few albums are recently recorded and mixed in 5.1 setup.
True Stereo is , when used two mono amps.

No one does use subwoofer while listening Stereo Music...No company sells that...
Click to expand...

A musical sub typically refers to one with very quick transient response and tight bass. Output is also normally lower in comparison to what we call dedicated HT subs.

Depending on his receiver it may in fact have bass management and a sub out. I doubt the one the OP has does, but they are out there. For example: http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/rr2150.html

Many, many people use a sub or subs while listening to 2 channel audio, especially with smaller bookshelf speakers. If you don't, you end up missing parts of the music.
 
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slackerinabox

Lifer
Mar 15, 2003
12,668
103
106
iRONic said:
That's so cute.

I prefer my speakers to actually sound good.
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Fuck off, I never said I wanted a shitty sounding, aesthetically pleasing setup. Sound reigns supreme, but as a preference I *like* the old school look but it's far from my primary concern.

Thanks for jumping to a conclusion based on 5 words.

To every one else - thank you! The polks seem nice but, if music is the primary (well, only) use (indie rock, some electronic, some soul/r&B, hip hop as well - source would be iTunes and vinyl), please suggest speakers that don't need subs - I'm ok with that and can up my budget accordingly - say $400 ish (used/whatever) for the speakers.
 
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queequeg99

Senior member
Oct 17, 2001
571
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freedomsbeat212 said:
(and the listening room's pretty small too)
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How small is "pretty small"? Also, is the room open to any other rooms, such as through some pass-through within a door or some other opening? If the room is really small (say, around 250 square feet) and sealed, you should easily be able to get away without a sub unless you listen so something like dub step (which really requires a sub to handle well).

I have an exercise room that measures 14 x 15 x 8 (totally sealed off with doors). I use two Hsu Research HB1 MK2 bookshelf speakers that are placed relatively close to the corners of the shorter wall. That works for the non-critical exercise user. The bass is pretty awesome and I can crank up the sound to painful volumes. Heck, even my Energy RC10s do a great job in that space and they are smaller than the Hsu speakers. But I listen so alt-rock so you rarely get a lot of sustained notes down below 40hz. So if you have a small room that is sealed, I would definitely try starting off with just a 2.0 setup and see if that works.

In my great room (just friggin' huge), I also use the same model of Hsu bookshelf speaker. But they're matched up with a Tuba 18 folded horn sub that I built. Total out of pocket expense for the sub (including some tools I had to buy to augment my meager collection) was about $275. But the sound is amazing. For music (i.e. not super low frequency), it is close to the Hsu VTF-15H sub I have in my home theater. If you're at all amenable to building something (this was my first real woodworking project), check out Bill Fitzmaurice's website.
 
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slackerinabox

Lifer
Mar 15, 2003
12,668
103
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queequeg99 said:
How small is "pretty small"? Also, is the room open to any other rooms, such as through some pass-through within a door or some other opening? If the room is really small (say, around 250 square feet) and sealed, you should easily be able to get away without a sub unless you listen so something like dub step (which really requires a sub to handle well).

I have an exercise room that measures 14 x 15 x 8 (totally sealed off with doors). I use two Hsu Research HB1 MK2 bookshelf speakers that are placed relatively close to the corners of the shorter wall. That works for the non-critical exercise user. The bass is pretty awesome and I can crank up the sound to painful volumes. Heck, even my Energy RC10s do a great job in that space and they are smaller than the Hsu speakers. But I listen so alt-rock so you rarely get a lot of sustained notes down below 40hz. So if you have a small room that is sealed, I would definitely try starting off with just a 2.0 setup and see if that works.

In my great room (just friggin' huge), I also use the same model of Hsu bookshelf speaker. But they're matched up with a Tuba 18 folded horn sub that I built. Total out of pocket expense for the sub (including some tools I had to buy to augment my meager collection) was about $275. But the sound is amazing. For music (i.e. not super low frequency), it is close to the Hsu VTF-15H sub I have in my home theater. If you're at all amenable to building something (this was my first real woodworking project), check out Bill Fitzmaurice's website.
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Thanks for the reply! The room's small, not really a living room but more a mash of dining, office, and secondary living space (our family room has a 5.1 system) - measurements are 15x11, but cut into an L (converted from a larger room so the listening area has no windows).. The room is not carpeted and there's an echo where I have our Tivoli, but I wanted an upgrade anyways so am building a cheap vinyl/ iTunes/Spotify (airplay) stereo system on the less echoey part of the room (love the tivoli but music doesn't hit you deep down, if that makes sense)..I'm looking to listen to music while working at low to moderate levels, while maybe occasionally entertaining. I also want it to be a wife friendly study room so I don't want to stress her out with decor swallowing speakers (we live in Queens, NY - space is at a premium(. TMI, I just want everything to look as compact as possible while keeping the old fashioned richness and smoothness in check withing realistic compromise since my budget's low. i find my 5.1 makes everything sound too digital and processed, so I don't absolutely need another setup and it's a luxury. As little gear as possible makes sense, so I'd avoid a sub if possible. I do listen to some hip hop and dub step (when cleaning), but I do live in a coop so don't want my neighbors to hate me (I'll carpet directly under the sub if that'll help, but still). 2.0 sounds like the right choice... I'd be lying to say that car subwoofer doesn't make me smile when it hits certain notes. Deep down bass possible at all with bookshelf speakers? She's not a fan of the real estate necessary for towers (and I agree - the wall I can use is only 60" wide with 36" taken over by the media console, and we don't want to cram it full of gear).
 
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gus6464

Golden Member
Nov 10, 2005
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I have the PSW10 connected to Audioengine A2's and it's crazy how good the combo sounds for what I paid for it. I got the speakers last christmas on massdrop for $120 and got the sub for $80.

The PSW series are great cheap musical subs imo.

If you go active you don't need receiver and you can get better speakers. This is what I use:

airport express -> toslink -> fiio D03 -> rca -> audioengine A2 -> rca -> polk PSW10
 
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slackerinabox

Lifer
Mar 15, 2003
12,668
103
106
gus6464 said:
I have the PSW10 connected to Audioengine A2's and it's crazy how good the combo sounds for what I paid for it. I got the speakers last christmas on massdrop for $120 and got the sub for $80.

The PSW series are great cheap musical subs imo.

If you go active you don't need receiver and you can get better speakers. This is what I use:

airport express -> toslink -> fiio D03 -> rca -> audioengine A2 -> rca -> polk PSW10
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Really? The amazon reviews on the polk are great but everyone on amazon are on uppers or something, if it's cheap and functions they'll post 5 star reviews. More critical reviews seem to imply that it's boomy and more suited for movies than music. I'd be happy if they're wrong, it's a solid looking unit for a good price by a good audio label. I'm also thinking about the av forum budget favorite, an 8" dayton sub. The psw10's still on my list if I go the pioneer andrew johnson bookshelfs.

(i have a small amp lying around but I want a receiver for fm radio and phono jacks)
 
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tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
7,348
642
121
freedomsbeat212 said:
Really? The amazon reviews on the polk are great but everyone on amazon are on uppers or something, if it's cheap and functions they'll post 5 star reviews. More critical reviews seem to imply that it's boomy and more suited for movies than music. I'd be happy if they're wrong, it's a solid looking unit for a good price by a good audio label. I'm also thinking about the av forum budget favorite, an 8" dayton sub. The psw10's still on my list if I go the pioneer andrew johnson bookshelfs.

(i have a small amp lying around but I want a receiver for fm radio and phono jacks)
Click to expand...

You are on the wrong forum for this.
You're better off on avsforum, like you've been looking.

Using Amazon reviews for audio equipment is just lulz. If it works, it gets 5 stars. Most people have never heard a decent system.
I have
2 Polk Monitor 70 Series 2
1 Klipsch Sub (Another I'm building but I stopped because I need to purchase power tools now that I graduated college)
1 Crown XLS 1500 Amplifier
Onkyo TX-NR709
and they consider that entry level over there and that's like 1.2k. My next stuff will probably all be DIY though. I need some hobbies lol.

Since you haven't purchased anything though, make a thread on AVSforum and ask. You might find that you only want a 2.0 setup. A lot of people prefer 2.0 (for whatever reason), over there.

If you haven't purchased anything, just from a QUICK search, i found these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RTi10-BLACK...65?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item5af4a51181

I think they'd work in a 2.0 setup for you personally if you don't listen at noise deafening volumes. If you are trying to throw a party with them though forget it. You WILL blow out the tweeters with a cheap amplifier (hence why I have a separate amplifier since I blew my tweeters twice before learning my lesson).

After that. you can upgrade the system later down the road as you please. Starting with good quality speakers like that though will mean you won't have to do what I will end up doing and that is getting rid of my Monitor 70s. If you can demo though even better. You may find that type of quality overklil, and you may only need something like my Monitor 70s. TBH, I think they're great speakers just by themselves and have used them like that and people thought they were amazing. If you don't listen to songs with loud bass (I have a ton of hiphop/dance and I throw parties so a subwoofer and loudness is a must), then you might actually like the Monitor 70s just by themselves and they are even cheaper at around 350 but if you get them on sale you can get them at 300.

Edit:for the record, every person I have talked to on audio forums has said that polk makes great speakers for the price, but in terms of subwoofers, they really aren't good compared to other brands. So my recommendation of Polk Speakers speaks nothing about the subwoofers. Kind of odd that they make great speakers for the price, but don't do well at all subwoofer wise (in terms of audiophile perception of course).
 
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gus6464

Golden Member
Nov 10, 2005
1,848
32
91
freedomsbeat212 said:
Really? The amazon reviews on the polk are great but everyone on amazon are on uppers or something, if it's cheap and functions they'll post 5 star reviews. More critical reviews seem to imply that it's boomy and more suited for movies than music. I'd be happy if they're wrong, it's a solid looking unit for a good price by a good audio label. I'm also thinking about the av forum budget favorite, an 8" dayton sub. The psw10's still on my list if I go the pioneer andrew johnson bookshelfs.

(i have a small amp lying around but I want a receiver for fm radio and phono jacks)
Click to expand...

For the price I paid I like the setup. For reference my main setup consists of:

SVS MBS-01
Parasound Halo P3
Parasound Halo A23
Rega P3-24
Audio Technica AT-PEQ3

The Audioengine setup is for my wife who likes to listen to music while she is in her reading room. She didn't want anything fancy and like I said it's not bad at all for the price I paid for everything.
 
iRONic

iRONic

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2006
8,200
3,516
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hans030390 said:
Who said vintage audio can't sound good as well?
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Not me. I own 30 year old speakers & a turntable that just might be older than the OP. They look fine and are sonically excellent.

Based on OP's two threads; he doesn't really know what he wants.

freedomsbeat212 said:
This is going to make me seem like a hipster but I really like the warm sound of pre-80s audio gear. I'm not an audiophile at all (and actually find the audiophile preferred sound signature too bright and piercingly harsh) and just love the sound of old vinyl - warm, lush, with bass that's moving but not ghetto blasting.

I also have a very mid century modern living room and thing an old school stereo system would work really well decor wise. A record players a given but, for that warm signature - vintage stereo receiver, vintage speakers, or both?
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You already gave him the best explanation;

hans030390 said:
I think you misunderstand what the preferred audiophile sound signature is, which is that of a neutral, flat, clean, and smooth response across the board. You would not find such gear to be harsh or bright, because then it would not be neutral, etc.
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And the best advice;

NutBucket said:
I would just spend money on bigger speakers.
Click to expand...
Whatever... it's his money.
 
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