Sub-$200 Grudge Match: GF 560 vs RD 6870

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OptimumSlinky

Senior member
Nov 3, 2009
345
1
76
That's kind of crazy! That thing has been long-dead, and now it's back?

Optimum - that's your best choice, and heck, I might get one too!

Done and done. I was going to wait to order until I got a little closer to my actual redeployment date out of Afghanistan, but that deal just makes too much damn sense, so I ordered one and had it shipped to my parents (free shipping, to boot).

@ Jason166, great find and appreciate you sharing. You just saved me $180, as I was leaning towards getting 2x Sapphire 6870 w/ $10 instant discount and a $20 mail in (came out to ~$330 with shipping to APO).

Assuming that it's not a typo and I don't end up with a 6850 (in which case I'd return it for a refund), 2x 5850s XF'd should let me toy around with the whole multi-GPU shindig and give me enough horsepower until the next generation plays out.
 

Termie

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
7,949
48
91
www.techbuyersguru.com
Done and done. I was going to wait to order until I got a little closer to my actual redeployment date out of Afghanistan, but that deal just makes too much damn sense, so I ordered one and had it shipped to my parents (free shipping, to boot).

@ Jason166, great find and appreciate you sharing. You just saved me $180, as I was leaning towards getting 2x Sapphire 6870 w/ $10 instant discount and a $20 mail in (came out to ~$330 with shipping to APO).

Assuming that it's not a typo and I don't end up with a 6850 (in which case I'd return it for a refund), 2x 5850s XF'd should let me toy around with the whole multi-GPU shindig and give me enough horsepower until the next generation plays out.

Congrats, this is a win-win, and again, good find by Jason166.

Amazon is now down to 10 (from 19) yesterday, so it looks like they're actually selling something, let's hope it's an HD5850!

Optimum - in my opinion, the 5850 has greater ultimate reserves than the 6870, and in some ways is the stronger card. The 6870 is already clocked quite high, and even when overclocked, just touches 5870 performance.

As you probably know, the 5850 can surpass 5870 performance. I actually get an honest 25% improvement over stock 5850 clocks in BC2 when running at 950/1200. That's pretty close to unheard of (I'm not talking 25% clock increase here, I'm talking frame rates). You should be able to get at least 100MHz out of that 5850 on stock volts (and I think Sapphire has an overvolting tool, Trixx).

The 5850 is a good investment - way better than $330 on 2x6870!
 
Feb 19, 2009
10,457
10
76
Its weird that even at $150 brand new, 5850s are still best bang for buck. Every game i play, the OCs boost fps nearly matching the % OC, it indeed has a lot of headroom. 1ghz is a ~37% OC. Unheard of in gpus really.
 

hdfxst

Senior member
May 13, 2009
851
3
81
The 5850 xtreme is a very good card and i hope i'm wrong about the 6850.I bought mine in april and i have not been easy on it.It ran 925 on the core for bitcoin but at 950 the cooler had a hard time keeping up(i won't allow a card to run at 80c+),i wish these cards came with the 5830 xtreme cooler
 

Termie

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
7,949
48
91
www.techbuyersguru.com
Its weird that even at $150 brand new, 5850s are still best bang for buck. Every game i play, the OCs boost fps nearly matching the % OC, it indeed has a lot of headroom. 1ghz is a ~37% OC. Unheard of in gpus really.

The 5850 xtreme is a very good card and i hope i'm wrong about the 6850.I bought mine in april and i have not been easy on it.It ran 925 on the core for bitcoin but at 950 the cooler had a hard time keeping up(i won't allow a card to run at 80c+),i wish these cards came with the 5830 xtreme cooler

Ok, against my better judgment, I just bought one...I'll chime in eventually to report back on how my crossfire experiment goes...
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
106
Crossfire, mostly, and whether not I really need an upgrade, of course!

Think of crossfire or SLI as buying a 12 cylinder car. More parts, more work, but with greater rewards. We are supposed to be enthusiasts, after all. ;)
 

OptimumSlinky

Senior member
Nov 3, 2009
345
1
76
Ok, against my better judgment, I just bought one...I'll chime in eventually to report back on how my crossfire experiment goes...

Yes! Give in to the dark side! Give into G.A.S.! (gear acquisition syndrome)

Sadly, you'll get to play with CrossFire before I will (I won't be home until December). Do let me know how it goes; interested mostly in Crysis 2 / Battlefield 3 performance. If BF3 scales with CrossFire as well as BC2 does, it should scream.
 
Feb 19, 2009
10,457
10
76
Yes! Give in to the dark side! Give into G.A.S.! (gear acquisition syndrome)

Sadly, you'll get to play with CrossFire before I will (I won't be home until December). Do let me know how it goes; interested mostly in Crysis 2 / Battlefield 3 performance. If BF3 scales with CrossFire as well as BC2 does, it should scream.

BF3 runs awesome at 1080 ultra. Just turn off MSAA.
 

OptimumSlinky

Senior member
Nov 3, 2009
345
1
76
Wow, the 5850s on Amazon are now up to $175 with only five left in stock... Clearly, there's still a market for them!
 

OptimumSlinky

Senior member
Nov 3, 2009
345
1
76
And that's from an outside vendor.

In other news, my HD5850 from Amazon is scheduled to arrive on Friday. I sure hope it's actually a 5850!

Got an email from my dad, and my card arrived yesterday, and it IS in fact a true 5850, not a 6850 replacement. I am stoked.
 

jason166

Member
Dec 11, 2009
56
1
71
BTW, did I mention I ordered one too? I got my card last week, Monday, just in time to play some BF3. I've got my OC'd at 925/4800 @ 1.2v right now rock solid.

Cheers :thumbsup:
 

PrayForDeath

Diamond Member
Apr 12, 2004
3,478
1
76
Might wanna edit the title, since you're actually looking for a $400 GPU setup.

Did you consider the GTX 570? I'd rather get a single card now, and maybe add another one later if needed, than start with a CF/SLI setup right away.
 

Termie

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
7,949
48
91
www.techbuyersguru.com
Might wanna edit the title, since you're actually looking for a $400 GPU setup.

Did you consider the GTX 570? I'd rather get a single card now, and maybe add another one later if needed, than start with a CF/SLI setup right away.

Actually, the OP ended up finding a 5850 to crossfire with his existing 5850, which meant that while he was looking to spend 2x$200 (or $400), he ended up spending $150 and getting the same performance. That was thanks to Jason166.

BTW, did I mention I ordered one too? I got my card last week, Monday, just in time to play some BF3. I've got my OC'd at 925/4800 @ 1.2v right now rock solid.

Cheers :thumbsup:

Awesome! Nice OC on that thing. I'd heard of other people hitting 925 at 1.2v, so it sounds like you're right on track.

Again, thanks to you Jason166 for helping us all score a new awesome setup.

I got my 5850 crossfire set up yesterday, and it's really amazing. In BF3, I was at 1920x1200, high settings, 43fps. With crossfire, I got to 80fps, or 86% scaling. But now I'm able to max it out (all ultra, except for MSAA), and it's so darn fast (about 70fps) I just lock in vsync and cruise at 60fps the entire time with my GPUs trotting along at about 70% load.

For you watt-conscious types, I went from 73w to 87w at idle (below the theoretical 18w idle draw of an additional card, strangely), and I went from about 260w to 410w at load (ignoring PSU losses of about 10% on my Seasonic, that's exactly at the 150w TDP, and potentially pushed by the increased load on the CPU). That being said, when I lock in vsync at 60fps, I drop it down to 330w load, which to me is a power bargain - I went from 43fps at high settings to 60fps at ultra settings, and barely use the power of one light bulb to get there. Nice!

Some more information just to put everything into perspective. In BF3, as with other new games, 1GB of ram simply is not enough to push the ultimate settings. While I have the raw power to run 1920/4xMSAA, I'm already at 950MB per card before enabling MSAA, and doing so throws all sorts of errors. The most humourous one was a game crash and then a warning saying "This application requires a video card with at least 512MB of ram". Epic fail!

Also, I had a heck of a time setting up my cards, but not because of what you might think. I had read you had to uninstall all drivers, run driver cleaner, install the drivers once, reboot, install again for the second card, reboot, etc. Well, from the moment I put my second card in (and the slot did not matter - I ran each as the master card), my system was totally unresponsive, with the CPU maxing out and everything running slowly on screen. I of course thought it was a driver issue, but after about 5 hours of trouble-shooting, I realized that my mixed set of RAM capacities was causing some kind of incompatibility with the crossfire setup. I had 2x2GB and 2x4GB (for a total of 12GB), and the minute I pulled the 2x2GB setup, the system kicked into action, and I was on my way.

Lesson learned...make sure your memory subsystem is stable. I know the cards use a bit of system ram just to run, so they must have been encountering some problem accessing it in the mixed setup. I'd recommend dropping down to default memory clocks and timings to start off with your crossfire setup, and watch out for the mixed setups like mine.

And to the OP - you've got a great setup awaiting you when you return to the States!
 
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Leyawiin

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2008
3,204
52
91
I got my 5850 crossfire set up yesterday, and it's really amazing.

Have you noticed any downsides to Crossfire yet? Specially, microstuttering? I have a Crossfire AMD motherboard and have kicked the idea around several times, but always seem to go with a single Nvidia card. With Skyrim coming out I'd like have basically what you do - a solid vertical sync limited 60 FPS everywhere possible. I'm just paranoid about the possibility of little constant jitters on the screen as I play. Still, I keep thinking about getting rid of this GTX 560 (already) and giving it a try.
 

Termie

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
7,949
48
91
www.techbuyersguru.com
Have you noticed any downsides to Crossfire yet? Specially, microstuttering? I have a Crossfire AMD motherboard and have kicked the idea around several times, but always seem to go with a single Nvidia card. With Skyrim coming out I'd like have basically what you do - a solid vertical sync limited 60 FPS everywhere possible. I'm just paranoid about the possibility of little constant jitters on the screen as I play. Still, I keep thinking about getting rid of this GTX 560 (already) and giving it a try.

I haven't noticed any problems yet, but from all my reading on the subject, it probably exists. I think it may be hard to detect, especially when you've got plenty of headroom (which I do at 1920). Perhaps when the system gets pushed harder (2560, Eyefinity, etc.), and you're at a lower fps anyway, the microstutter becomes more noticeable.

Your situation isn't quite as clear cut, as you already have a decent single card that you can't SLI on your board, requiring you to sell it and buy two new cards. I assume no CPU/motherboard upgrade is in store for you, correct? If you'll be sticking with your current board, then I think it's a tossup between selling the 560 and getting two similar cards (the 6870, for instance), or one 580. The 6870 crossfire setup would be cheaper and faster in just about everything: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/301?vs=305

...but, it is slightly more of a hassle (as I learned from my odd system incompatibility), and the 580 has plenty of power for most games. Also, the 1GB of memory on the <$200 cards will become a big issue eventually, in my opinion.
 

WMD

Senior member
Apr 13, 2011
476
0
0
Actually, the OP ended up finding a 5850 to crossfire with his existing 5850, which meant that while he was looking to spend 2x$200 (or $400), he ended up spending $150 and getting the same performance. That was thanks to Jason166.



Awesome! Nice OC on that thing. I'd heard of other people hitting 925 at 1.2v, so it sounds like you're right on track.

Again, thanks to you Jason166 for helping us all score a new awesome setup.

I got my 5850 crossfire set up yesterday, and it's really amazing. In BF3, I was at 1920x1200, high settings, 43fps. With crossfire, I got to 80fps, or 86&#37; scaling. But now I'm able to max it out (all ultra, except for MSAA), and it's so darn fast (about 70fps) I just lock in vsync and cruise at 60fps the entire time with my GPUs trotting along at about 70% load.

For you watt-conscious types, I went from 73w to 87w at idle (below the theoretical 18w idle draw of an additional card, strangely), and I went from about 260w to 410w at load (ignoring PSU losses of about 10% on my Seasonic, that's exactly at the 150w TDP, and potentially pushed by the increased load on the CPU). That being said, when I lock in vsync at 60fps, I drop it down to 330w load, which to me is a power bargain - I went from 43fps at high settings to 60fps at ultra settings, and barely use the power of one light bulb to get there. Nice!

Some more information just to put everything into perspective. In BF3, as with other new games, 1GB of ram simply is not enough to push the ultimate settings. While I have the raw power to run 1920/4xMSAA, I'm already at 950MB per card before enabling MSAA, and doing so throws all sorts of errors. The most humourous one was a game crash and then a warning saying "This application requires a video card with at least 512MB of ram". Epic fail!

Also, I had a heck of a time setting up my cards, but not because of what you might think. I had read you had to uninstall all drivers, run driver cleaner, install the drivers once, reboot, install again for the second card, reboot, etc. Well, from the moment I put my second card in (and the slot did not matter - I ran each as the master card), my system was totally unresponsive, with the CPU maxing out and everything running slowly on screen. I of course thought it was a driver issue, but after about 5 hours of trouble-shooting, I realized that my mixed set of RAM capacities was causing some kind of incompatibility with the crossfire setup. I had 2x2GB and 2x4GB (for a total of 12GB), and the minute I pulled the 2x2GB setup, the system kicked into action, and I was on my way.

Lesson learned...make sure your memory subsystem is stable. I know the cards use a bit of system ram just to run, so they must have been encountering some problem accessing it in the mixed setup. I'd recommend dropping down to default memory clocks and timings to start off with your crossfire setup, and watch out for the mixed setups like mine.

And to the OP - you've got a great setup awaiting you when you return to the States!

That was great scaling. How about perceived performance? Some people are talking about micro-stutter. If you crank the settings until a single GPU is unplayable, does it actually feel less choppy when crossfire is enabled? I am running one 5850 at 985/ 1290 and I feel its fine for BF3 Ultra (no MSAA) at the moment.
 
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Termie

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
7,949
48
91
www.techbuyersguru.com
That was great scaling. How about perceived performance? Some people are talking about micro-stutter. If you crank the settings until a single GPU is unplayable, does it actually feel less choppy when crossfire is enabled? I am running one 5850 at 985/ 1290 and I feel its fine for BF3 Ultra (no MSAA) at the moment.

I haven't noticed any "chop" yet, but I've only had it for a day. I'll report back if I notice any problems. Besides a bit of multiplayer, I played about 3 levels of the single player campaign, and it was smooth as silk. SP would more likely isolate microstutter, versus multiplayer, where lag can come into play.