sub $1500 gaming machine

[3chordcharlie]

who cares what he buys? I haven't got anything better to do at the moment than spend some time answering questions. Hell most of the time I'm looking at this forum I'm getting paid (not to be on the forum) anyway. Might as well answer some questions, and I cna't see the need to be negative about everything... I"m sure you've had frustrating experiences going all the way back to 'don't buy AMD, get a celeron' but it's no reason to get down on someone for asking intelligent questions.

If my parents had handed me $2000 to spend on a system in a year before college, I would have bought intel too. Oh wait, I did, and spent the next three years getting spanked sideways by guys with athlons. At least if Jerome picks intel now, he'll know what he's getting and what he's giving up.

 

[Ilmater]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
why jump on the guy - there's no reason to criticize him if he doesn't buy an amd, only if he doesn't even consider it, when so many have suggested he should take a good look. looks to me like he's asking the right questions; I'm certainly not going to be bothered if Jerome buys an intel system, especially if he's taken the time to see what he is and isn't getting by doing so.

You don't understand, no matter what you say to these people they will buy intel. The same thing has happened to me time and time again in countless other threads; the guy finally caves and asks about AMD, then we tell him what he asks about, then he goes and buys intel anyway.

I was with you in bashing him before, but I'll back off if he's AT LEAST considering it.

JEROME - If you want benches, look here:

Sudhian - The 3200+ meets or beats the 3.2GHz P4 at every step. Look at the UT 2K4 benches at the bottom of the page and they'll REALLY blow your mind. The 3200+ even beats the P4 Extreme Edition in nearly every test.

Anandtech - If you go back a few pages form the one I linked, you'll see that the 3200+ and 3.2GHz P4 don't really differ much, except on the synthetic Aquamark benchmark. In DX 7 and 8 performance (on the page I linked) and OpenGL performance (the page after the one I linked), you'll see the 3200+ wins ever so slightly. If you look at the price/performance tables in that article, you'll see that the 3200+, once again, meets or beats the P4 in everything except video encoding and 3D rendering (this is applications like 3D Studio Max, not 3D games), which is why I said before, unless you're frequently encoding video, you go with AMD.

Tom's Hardware - I'll just sum it up in this paragraph taken directly from Tom's results. Granted, this is about the 3400+, but there's no difference between it and the 3200+ except for a little clock speed.

A close look at all the benchmark results reveals that the new Athlon64 just barely earns the performance rating 3400+. Out of 32 benchmarks, only 13 were decided clearly in favor of AMD's new contender. If you were to evaluate each of the 41 individual disciplines, the result would be even poorer.

Two things should be considered here, however: for one, the big "64 bit" unknown remains a non-factor and for another, the benchmarks in which the Athlon64 shines are significant. In practically all of the gaming benchmarks, the 3400+ is able to beat its archrival Pentium 4 - sometimes soundly. X2, Warcraft III, Unreal Tournament 2003, Splinter Cell, Serious Sam, Gunmetal, Comanche and Aqua Mark: the Pentium 4 has to concede victory in all of them.

Once again, while nobody would contend that the AMD beats the P4 solution everywhere, AMD still stomps in game performance.

Does that help?

 

[jerome12345]

which would you pick or which should i pick?

AMD Socket 939 Athlon 64 3500+, 2.2 GHz, 512KB L2 Cache 64-bit Processor - OEM $485

ASUS "A8V Deluxe Wi-Fi" K8T800 Pro Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket 939 CPU -RETAIL $158

TOTAL: $643

----------------------------------OR----------------------------------

AMD Athlon 64 3200+, 1 MB L2 Cache, the Only 64-bit Windows Compatible Processor - OEM $270

ASUS "K8V SE Deluxe" K8T800 Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket 754 CPU -RETAIL $121

TOTAL: $391




will i see a difference performance difference big enough to justify the $252 difference
is the nforce 3 chipset better than the k8t800?

thanks
jerome

 

[3chordcharlie]

you aren't going to see enough more performance to justify a 60%+ price increase. I've heard good things about nforce3 250, for s939 or s754, but maybe someone that has one, or the asus you're looking at can give you a better idea.

 

[crazycarl]

since u are on a budget go for the 3200 . the 3500 would be quite a bit more high-end. spend the money u save on a 9800 pro or a x800/6800 if u are feeling rich

 

[jerome12345]

is amd or intel easier to overclock
can i run 3500 RAM on intel
can i run 3500 RAM on AMD

im so confused

 

[Markfw]

As you can see, I am a little biased, but for a gaming machine, my Athlon64 3000+ at 3200+ speeds does great ! And I love PC3500, the perfect overclocking ram. Its easy to do, and works fine, but it won;t OC as much at the P4, however, a 3400+ at 3500+ speeds or better on a socket 754 is the way I would say go on your budget. (218 HTT on a 3400+ is 11x218=2398, or about the same speed as the 3700+ or 3800+ I think) I think that that setup on the K8V, and an X800pro video card would spank most systems in games.

To directly answer your questions, they both OC easily, the P4 OC's more, but with the setup I mentioned, you would need to be at about 4 ghz on a P4 I think to get the same frame rates on games, and that requires water cooling. If you start down the path I have recommended, you should get some great feedback, and I think you will be very happy.

BTW, the Athlon64 3400+ at 218 HTT will run much cooler than a P4 at 3.8 or better.

Motherboard K8V
CPU Athlon64 3400+
Cooler Thermaltake 948u (I think) with a 92mm Panaflo, or a Silent boost K8
Mushkin level1 PC3500
X800pro ATI video card
Raptor 74 gig

other stuff as needed, thats the important stuff.

 

[jerome12345]

do i need matched pair ram (512 x 2) for the 3200+ or 2 sticks of 512 or 1 stick of 1 gig
since there is not dual channel, 1 stick of 1 gig would be the same speed, but more expandability, right?


do timings matter much?

if i get 3500 RAM, then i have to oc through the mobo bios??? the asus bios will let me do that?

i can get 3500 ram speeds without oc'ing my cpu?

as you can see ive never oc'd

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: jerome12345
do i need matched pair ram (512 x 2) for the 3200+ or 2 sticks of 512 or 1 stick of 1 gig
since there is not dual channel, 1 stick of 1 gig would be the same speed, but more expandability, right?


do timings matter much?

if i get 3500 RAM, then i have to oc through the mobo bios??? the asus bios will let me do that?

i can get 3500 ram speeds without oc'ing my cpu?

as you can see ive never oc'd

You do not need matched pairs, but 1 gig ram doesn;t come in CAS2, and is hard to find in the right speeds and choices now. Just get 2 512 meg Mushkin Level 1 PC3500.

You can run it at stock (just put it in and it will work) and later if you want more speed, just set the bios for 210 or 215 or (probably max) 218 HTT.

 

[myocardia]

I would definitely recommend you get an nForce3-250 motherboard. It's the only A64 motherboard with pci/agp locks, and overclocks WAY better than the Via chipset on that Asus K8V. Also, a CG stepping A64 3200 will have absolutely no problem running 2.4ghz on an nForce3-250 mobo, if not 2.5 ghz. And yes, it's fine to buy PC3500 or PC3700 ram, even if you aren't going to be using it to it's full potential yet. Oh, and memory timings aren't important at all for Athlon64's, like they are for Athlon XP's and P4's, because the memory controller is on-die (on the processor).

 

[jerome12345]

newegg doesnt have the asus nforce 3 does it?
ill prob get the ASUS K8N-E Deluxe but i cant put it on the wishlist cuz newegg doesnt have it

i wonder why? its not that new is it?

ive never looked elsewhere
can anyone recommend another retailer that is newegg-quality?

 

[crazycarl]

monarch computer is very high quality, usually within 5-10 dollars of newegg's price as well
www.monarchcomputer.com
they are also doing the farcry promotion and will build u a system custom if u don't want to build it yourself

 

[Runner20]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
why jump on the guy - there's no reason to criticize him if he doesn't buy an amd, only if he doesn't even consider it, when so many have suggested he should take a good look. looks to me like he's asking the right questions; I'm certainly not going to be bothered if Jerome buys an intel system, especially if he's taken the time to see what he is and isn't getting by doing so.

Exactly.

From what I see around here, the AMD guys seem more hateful than the Intel guys.

 

[Duker]

The only comment on the AMD/Intel posts is I have both and my AMD 64 is noticably faster then my P4 at the same "rated" clock speed. AMD 64 @ 2.2 GHz verus P4C @ 3.2 GHz

Newegg usually lacks behind a little on new MB's. They will start to get the 250's in soon I'm sure.

On the Raptor issue, one thing to remember it's only a little faster but you also get a five year warranty. Does Maxtor, Samsung and other SATA's have that? You get what you pay for sometimes.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: jerome12345
newegg doesnt have the asus nforce 3 does it?
ill prob get the ASUS K8N-E Deluxe but i cant put it on the wishlist cuz newegg doesnt have it

i wonder why? its not that new is it?

ive never looked elsewhere
can anyone recommend another retailer that is newegg-quality?

No, but this is what I put on my wishlist:
Chaintech VNF3-250. It's $92, and quite a few overclockers are using them, and are very happy with them.

 

[jerome12345]

is the asus K8N-E Deluxe out yet?
its not in stock anywhere online

 

[thatsright]

Jerome, if your interested in the AMD64 line, check out this really well put together Sockett 754 guide of boards.

 

[jerome12345]

Here is my revised setup

Case:
Coolermaster Centurion 4

CPU HSF:
I NEED RECOMMENDATIONS FOR A HSF

Thermal:
Arctic Silver 5

Floppy:
Sony floppy

Hard Disk:
Western Digital Raptor 74 gig

CPU:
AMD Athlon 64 3200+

Mobo:
Asus K8N-E Deluxe

RAM:
3 sticks of Crucial XMS 512 mb PC 3500

CD-RW:
Plextor Premium

DVD-ROM:
Samsung 16X DVD, 48X CD

Input:
Logitech MX Duo

Monitor:
NEC MultiSync FE771SB-BK

edit: video card=ati radeon 9800pro 128mb

hope i didnt miss anything
comments?
i still need a hsf

 

[Nebor]

You left out your video card...

 

[Markfw]

HSF: Thermaltake Silent Boost K8 Great, quiet and easy to install.....

Alternate: High cooling, NOT easy to install, Thermaltake 948u.

I assume you want Raeon 9800pro or X800pro depending on the budget. Based on the $1500 in the post, I asume you want Raeon 9800pro for $200 or less. I have two and they are fine. If there is $200 more in the budget, get the X800pro.

 

[jerome12345]

found this HSF
looks like its pretty good
will it work on my mobo and processor
what kinda fan should i put on it

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: jerome12345
found this HSF
looks like its pretty good
will it work on my mobo and processor
what kinda fan should i put on it

NO. It only work on the XP series per the documentation. Try
this

 

[Tostada]

Originally posted by: jerome12345
Here is my revised setup
...

jerome -

That's a good CPU/board you have listed. If it was me, I'd probably actually wait till the nForce3 Socket 939 boards hit, but whatever. Just make sure you've got your priorities right.

Do you really just want the fastest possible gaming rig? If that's the case, you might as well spend $400 on a Radeon X800. It looks like you're trying to keep things a little more practical than that, but do you think you'll really be happy with that machine?

Personally, I'd feel like an idiot if I spent $1600 on a machine and it only had 74GB of storage. I'd also feel like an idiot if I spent $1600 on a machine and couldn't burn DVD's. Seriously, you're so concerned about getting a Plextor Premium CD burner but the only reason you gave is GigaRec. Well, GigaRec makes discs that most things can't read. Even at 1.2X where it only fits an extra 140MB on the disc, about half the drives out there won't even recognize the disc. It just doesn't make sense that you would spend $85 for a CD burner when you could get a DVD burner for the same price that actually does fit more on a disc.

That's great memory, but do you want 1.5GB? Do you really think you'll ever notice the difference between 1.0GB and 1.5GB?

And lastly, do you really want an AMD? Sure, the AMD is better for what you're doing, but it's not like a $1600 Intel system would be slow. If you were going to spend $25,000 on a car and you really liked the MR2 Spyder, you wouldn't let these guys talk you into the Mazdaspeed Miata just because it has more power, and you wouldn't let your girlfriend talk you into getting a turbo Beetle convertible, because you're the one that has to look at it every morning. It's your money. Get the computer you want.

 

[thatsright]

Sorry to crap on your thread Jerome, but come on man, I don't believe that this 'rig' of yours will ever see the light of day. Yeah I helped put together a list of stuff to look at, but that was BEFORE the whole thread degenerated into a AMD Vs. INTEL war.

And now it sounds like you would be spending a lot more $$ over your P4 Rig budget than what you originally planned, getting a helluva lot less 'bang for the buck!':thumbsdown: