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Stupid in America

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/story?id=1491217

I heard the producer of this segment on the radio yesterday. He brings up some valid points about the lack of competition within our govt run school system. I think this could be a pretty good piece into what is good and bad about our school systems.

Ill be recording it tonight and watching it over the weekend
 

BlancoNino

Diamond Member
Oct 31, 2005
5,695
0
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I have a book by John Stossel called "Give me a break". It's a great book. He's a very smart man.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,303
144
106
Originally posted by: BlancoNino
I have a book by John Stossel called "Give me a break". It's a great book. He's a very smart man.
He more than likely has alot of smart people working for him. I would hesitate to call him a very smart man. But what do I know?

thanks for the fyi Gen, I will make it a point to catch 20/20. Stossel does do some very good informative reporting.
 

FuzzyBee

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2000
5,172
1
81
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Genx87

valid points about the lack of competition within our govt run school system.

If you don't like our Government, please leave.

Thank you

Do you mean our Evil Republican Government?

Besides - do you live near GenX? Because in case you didn't know, school systems are primarily influenced by local governments.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
John Stossel????? Give me a break. I think that guy is a clown/phoney, just like Rush was/is.
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Genx87

valid points about the lack of competition within our govt run school system.

If you don't like our Government, please leave.

Thank you

HAHAHA, you're the one that hates our government. YOU please leave, thank you.
 
Jun 27, 2005
19,216
1
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Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Genx87

valid points about the lack of competition within our govt run school system.

If you don't like our Government, please leave.

Thank you

HAHAHA, you're the one that hates our government. YOU please leave, thank you.

I was going to post that too... But it was too easy. :D
 
Jun 27, 2005
19,216
1
61
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
John Stossel????? Give me a break. I think that guy is a clown/phoney, just like Rush was/is.

How so? I don't see him ranting and raving against the Left. Most of his commentary/reporting seems to be very even handed and well thought out.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Genx87

valid points about the lack of competition within our govt run school system.

If you don't like our Government, please leave.

Thank you

Watch the show and let us know what you think. On the surface it looks like a sound theory.

 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
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I think I'll watch it over the weekend as well, the Fargo Public School system may recieve an extra 60 Million Dollars extra besides the 66% percent that already comes out of property taxes. The amount that FPS spends on computers is insane, every year I attenend South High we received new computers for some computer lab or classroom.
Seriously folks, I'd say 99.9% of all the people that attend Fargo Public Schools have a computer and printer at home.
We don't need a a bunch of computer labs anymore, what we do need is good teachers.

In my opinion at lot of the money that goes into the public school system is wasted on new books, new computers, new classrooms... The primary source of education is the teacher the rest are simply tools to help us in our education.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
John Stossel????? Give me a break. I think that guy is a clown/phoney, just like Rush was/is.

How so? I don't see him ranting and raving against the Left. Most of his commentary/reporting seems to be very even handed and well thought out.

In my opinion most of his commentary is nothing but half-baked ideas that weren't even very good ideas in the first place. I guess that's why he reminds me of Rush.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
81
Our school system, among many other things, is proof positive we need to stop blaming the republicans or democrats, and start blaming the republicans and the democrats.
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
76
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
John Stossel????? Give me a break. I think that guy is a clown/phoney, just like Rush was/is.

How so? I don't see him ranting and raving against the Left. Most of his commentary/reporting seems to be very even handed and well thought out.

In my opinion most of his commentary is nothing but half-baked ideas that weren't even very good ideas in the first place. I guess that's why he reminds me of Rush.

Show us some of his "half-baked" ideas...
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
76
Originally posted by: bamacre
Our school system, among many other things, is proof positive we need to stop blaming the republicans or democrats, and start blaming the republicans and the democrats.

Pointing fingers at people doesn't solve a damn thing, we need to actually do stuff...
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: Tab
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
John Stossel????? Give me a break. I think that guy is a clown/phoney, just like Rush was/is.

How so? I don't see him ranting and raving against the Left. Most of his commentary/reporting seems to be very even handed and well thought out.

In my opinion most of his commentary is nothing but half-baked ideas that weren't even very good ideas in the first place. I guess that's why he reminds me of Rush.

Show us some of his "half-baked" ideas...

I'm sure there will be plenty of them on display tonight.
 

M00T

Golden Member
Mar 12, 2000
1,214
1
0
Originally posted by: Tab
Originally posted by: bamacre
Our school system, among many other things, is proof positive we need to stop blaming the republicans or democrats, and start blaming the republicans and the democrats.

Pointing fingers at people doesn't solve a damn thing, we need to actually do stuff...


I think the principal of the school in the OP is "doing something"... and it seems to be working.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
In Korea which is one of the countries compared, the State pays for what we would call a grade school education and then the parents pay for the High School they want the kids to go to. My wife is Korean and I learned this in Korea and from talking to my wife. I dont really think Koreans are all that much smarter than Americans.

The problem in America I think is we dumb down the education system to make our school grade average look higher. If no one or only a certain percentage of people are taking college algebra, which is not really considered a college level course anymore, then there is a certain percentage of students who have chosen the lazy stupid track. So our so called high school diploma is not really worth much. We are dumming down the brightest to make the not so bright people look better. All because of stupid government intervention. A better way to descibe out education system is that it is a great model for a communist country.

The USA was built on Competition. Without competition we have no reason to reach for a higher goal. Good students thrive on competition.

Here is something you should look at. There is a big grind on our education system. It is called Immigration. Or dumb people immigrating here. They may not actually be dumb, but just not speak english so they have a problem with our school system.

I question the statistics of any comparison in education and would like to know what it is they are comparing. Do they count every person who lives in their country or only the people who they consider citizens. In many countries you have to be born of a citizen to be considered a citizen of that country. Many countries have high levels of immigrants who they consider non-citizens. Are all the muslims in France and Europe counted?

People seem willing to take the results as the truth without questioning how the results were arrived at.

I have an idea. Lets make the minimum wage based on your ACT Score.
 

GroundedSailor

Platinum Member
Feb 18, 2001
2,502
0
76
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
John Stossel????? Give me a break. I think that guy is a clown/phoney, just like Rush was/is.

How so? I don't see him ranting and raving against the Left. Most of his commentary/reporting seems to be very even handed and well thought out.

Well thought out yes, but from a narrow point of view. I have read most of his book and didn't finish it becuase I couldn't see the end of the book being any different from the most of it.




 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
4
0
The fatal flaws in Mr. Stossels and the pro-competition crowd are that America did very well, thank you, for 190 years using public education. Also, most of the countries who are doing better than us have a public education system and those systems are often even more controlled by their union employees.
Methinks we need to look for other reasons Johnny can't read.
 

Shortass

Senior member
May 13, 2004
908
0
76
Originally posted by: piasabird
In Korea which is one of the countries compared, the State pays for what we would call a grade school education and then the parents pay for the High School they want the kids to go to. My wife is Korean and I learned this in Korea and from talking to my wife. I dont really think Koreans are all that much smarter than Americans.

The problem in America I think is we dumb down the education system to make our school grade average look higher. If no one or only a certain percentage of people are taking college algebra, which is not really considered a college level course anymore, then there is a certain percentage of students who have chosen the lazy stupid track. So our so called high school diploma is not really worth much. We are dumming down the brightest to make the not so bright people look better. All because of stupid government intervention. A better way to descibe out education system is that it is a great model for a communist country.

The USA was built on Competition. Without competition we have no reason to reach for a higher goal. Good students thrive on competition.

Here is something you should look at. There is a big grind on our education system. It is called Immigration. Or dumb people immigrating here. They may not actually be dumb, but just not speak english so they have a problem with our school system.

I question the statistics of any comparison in education and would like to know what it is they are comparing. Do they count every person who lives in their country or only the people who they consider citizens. In many countries you have to be born of a citizen to be considered a citizen of that country. Many countries have high levels of immigrants who they consider non-citizens. Are all the muslims in France and Europe counted?

People seem willing to take the results as the truth without questioning how the results were arrived at.

I have an idea. Lets make the minimum wage based on your ACT Score.

America obviously does dumb down the grading system, as I've seen it happen in my high school alone. Just like the sports teams where "everyone is the winner", kids are being taught that nobody loses in sports and in life, and that's certainly counter productive. These "feel good" tactics are only making the youth less competitive, and only the over-achievers are really exerting themselves to get into a good college and to succeed in life. I know that I'm hardly an over achiever, but now that I'm in college and have actual competition with the students there (which all seem leagues smarter than me), I'm beginning to hate my local school system for ill-equipping me.

Immigration is hardly the problem, and though I generally disagree with mass illegal immigration (2 conservative parents made that easy to latch onto), there are a lot of forces that are more influential in the worstening of our public school system. If immigrants want to really succeed in this country they need to learn our language fluently, period. It doesn't bother me if they are lax in their studies and test lower, as that's not the problem at hand. Of course I don't believe there's a quick fix to our education deficit, but take a look at public schools in China and you start to fear for my (and the next few) generations.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: techs
The fatal flaws in Mr. Stossels and the pro-competition crowd are that America did very well, thank you, for 190 years using public education. Also, most of the countries who are doing better than us have a public education system and those systems are often even more controlled by their union employees.
Methinks we need to look for other reasons Johnny can't read.

I think it is too easy to dismiss the lack of competition by some people.
Watch the show tonight, he is supposed to have examples of where vouchers are allowed and public schools forced to compete and overall the education got better.

One thing we do know is monopolies have never been known for their efficiency.
 

AragornTK

Senior member
Dec 27, 2005
207
0
0
To prove that the school system IS dumbed down, I tryed to fail english one year... I finished with a B... a B!!! I was intentionally doing badly, and I still got a B, because my teacher "knew I could do well, if I tried." WTF?

Intentions and ability mean nothing if you still don't do well... but don't worry, if you come to the US, you'll pass high school and fail for the rest of your life.
 

fornax

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
6,866
0
76
Hm, last I heard, schools are nor funded or controlled by the federal government (although they do pay some amounts). They are funded and controlled by the state and the local school boards that have the power to levy taxes.

I watched Stossel last night on Colbert Report, and I though he was couldn't really say something coherent. I'm sure that one thing you won't hear from him on 20/20 is that US school teachers earn about half of what Canadian, European, and Singapourean teachers do.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/story?id=1491217

I heard the producer of this segment on the radio yesterday. He brings up some valid points about the lack of competition within our govt run school system. I think this could be a pretty good piece into what is good and bad about our school systems.

Ill be recording it tonight and watching it over the weekend


Yep, it's the epitome of quality scholarship . . . take an anecdote and call it a generalizable truth despite the lack of evidence.

Money certainly will NOT solve all the problems with our public school system, but you cannot hire the BEST teachers without money . . . unless of course your faculty is a bunch of nuns.

Many would like to see "reform" not abolishment of tenure.

Many would like to see smaller central offices - school administration - a more resources dedicated to instruction.

Many would like to see uniform standards provided by an informed authority . . . and less BS being pushed by retarded state and local school boards.

None of the above are advanced through charter schools. The glory days for charters is likely over now that more and more states are dealing with costly effects of FAILED charters.

Again, public schools are not perfect . . . some downright sux. But comparing an exceptional charter to a crappy public school is just TV fluff.