Stunning article about rash of violence in St. Louis

[SpatiallyAware]

While I agree with you on some principle, I know many teachers who taught in these schools and burned out. They would pour their heart and souls into teaching these kids only to be received with perpetual indignation. It's not the system's fault. The larger parts of the system, mainly the entitlement programs, perpetuate the problem. The blame lies in the individual and the parents.

Agree.


The problem is the culture.

I said this in another thread, that we are at the point where we need to start looking at which cultures perpetuate these sort of problems and deal with them head on rather than avoid talking about it.

 

[Pocatello]

Agree.


The problem is the culture.

I said this in another thread, that we are at the point where we need to start looking at which cultures perpetuate these sort of problems and deal with them head on rather than avoid talking about it.

I don't think we have avoided talking about it, we have talked about it since the rise of civilization. We all want them to think and be like us, whatever that is.

 

[Exterous]

I'm sure a majority of the kids who don't show up wouldn't regardless, but if you made the schools worth even half a damn, you'd see a rise in attendance. And even if only 50% showed up, that's 50% who could benefit from real teaching. But instead inner city schools get the bottom of the barrel teachers, so that 50%'s pretty much fucked.

First - that 50% isn't showing up all the time so you constantly have kids in class who don't know the material from yesterday, last week, the entire last month etc. You can't just ignore these kids - its part of No Child Left Behind (even if you did decide to they would give up because they didn't understand the lesson and cause classroom disruptions). So the entire education process is slowed as lessons are constantly repeated to try and keep the majority of kids across similar classes district wide on the same page. Teachers aren't able to spend the appropriate amount of time on progressing students who know the material as they have to focus on those who couldn't be bothered to show up on a regular basis. Magnify this across 12 years and you have a severe retardation of the educational process compared to a school with good attendance

Studies show that when a child misses even 10% of the school year they struggle. This is not an inner city only statistic - it applies to every school regardless of teacher strength. Now - imagine what happens when that number is 3x or more. Top schools - regardless of the mix of the student body - have attendance rates of 97+% (National average is somewhere around 95%)

I know many teachers who taught in these schools and burned out. They would pour their heart and souls into teaching these kids only to be received with perpetual indignation. It's not the system's fault. The larger parts of the system, mainly the entitlement programs, perpetuate the problem. The blame lies in the individual and the parents.

While my wife doesn't work in DPS she does work in one of the nearby districts. She chose to work in a 'less-privileged' area because she 'wanted to help those who have no one else who will care about them'. She's won awards, mentored struggling teachers, done student government, is involved in numerous clubs and activities but she is ready to be done with the teaching there. She's tired of being called a racist, tired of having to deal with parents yelling her for giving their 'angel' a detention after the kid told her to 'fuck off' or any number of other insults/slurs, tired of kids and parents who don't care, tired of all the excuses, the BS sob stories, the whining. The bullshit that surrounds these districts is absolutely astounding, especially compared to the other districts shes taught in.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

I don't think we have avoided talking about it, we have talked about it since the rise of civilization. We all want them to think and be like us, whatever that is.

I don't think anybody is expecting any culture to match "ours". Personally, I don't even see it as "us" and "them".


In a large civilized society there has to be some balance. Yes, you must accept others' culture. But, there is also an expectation that your culture should not negatively infringe on those around you.

And therein lies the problem. The issue here, both with inner city school problems and these random acts of violence, is "thug culture"

Thug culture is absolutely nothing but a drain on our society.

It brings no rich history, no value, and nothing good to anyone except the people who worship the violence, the drug dealing, and the abuse of our social systems.



When your kids walk around with a hoodie on pulled over their face, listening to violent and drug deal promoting rap music, they are promoting thug culture.

We need to put a stop to this. It should be shameful to deal drugs, to drop out of school, to steal things and assault innocent people....

But instead a certain subsect actually worships this behaviour.


Honestly, I think something that will help quite a bit is more of society is arming themselves. It's being shown, particularly in the USA, that we won't put up with this shit. You very rarely hear about these stories in states which have strong self defense laws. Crime rates have gone down since the 90's while CCW rates have skyrocketed.

I look forward to the day where thugs walk down the street knowing that most of the innocent people around them are armed.

That day is coming ever closer, with people realizing that a gun is merely a hunk of metal and nothing to be afraid of unless you're a criminal.

 

[BUTCH1]

They are all cities with a disproportionate number of poor people. This is because many of the industries which grew, and caused the cities to grow with them abandoned the US and relocated off shore due to cost savings.

The end result is huge unemployed populations who feel as though their economic situation is hopeless and they turn to crime initially to survive and then make a lifestyle of it.

It is very sad.

Detroit, Chicago, and St Louis at least, were all huge manufacturing centers for durable and consumer goods. Now, most of the consumer goods manufacturing is gone, and that what remains doesn't pay as well as in the 50s and 60s when these cities were growing to accommodate the industries.

Good point, give someone a chance to work and make enough $ to support themselves and their family and they gain self-respect, dignity, and more. While there will always be lazy people, what these people see is a very limited opportunity to join the "middle class", shuttered factories, jobs that don't pay enough to even come close to what it costs to live, hey, who cares, as long as the stockholders get a better profit margin that's all that matters so have it made in China, or India where $10/day is good money. People bitch about social programs and those that live off them but if they had a chance to work and make a decent wage you would be surprised at the difference it would make in this country, all these people see is no opportunity to improve their situation without resorting to crime, selling drugs, ect.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

That is such a bullshit typical liberal excuse.


The free market determines wages, and you can live just fine off of minimum wage. Mcdonalds is hiring, getting a ~$9/hr job is absolutely no problem for ANYONE who wants one. Can you own a 3 year old charger or 300 with dub deuces on that wage? No.

But you can go to wal mart, buy meat, potatoes, splurge on a nice meal here and there while driving a tercel or corolla.



The real problem is that if you scam the social systems you can easily make $40k a year on disability. So all of the lazy and immoral people (which is again, a cultural problem) have degenerative unprovable back disorders anxiety issues and live off government while smoking drugs and playing ps4 all day, all while bragging about how much their fat check is bringing in.



Being on government assistance should be shameful, and temporary. But, that doesn't create lifelong liberal voters.




Basically this mess was brought on by the liberal voting machine. Now they have what they fought for and are realizing maybe it wasn't the best solution afterall.

 

[shortylickens]

I seriously doubt ANYBODY is playing ps4 all day.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

I seriously doubt ANYBODY is playing ps4 all day.

Well whatever is the very latest greatest $400 console system.


Watch any of the interviews with these leeches, they always have 60" flat screens and the latest gaming systems laying around while in government housing and bitching about they can't feed their 8 chilren.

 

[shortylickens]

Well whatever is the very latest greatest $400 console system.


Watch any of the interviews with these leeches, they always have 60" flat screens and the latest gaming systems laying around while in government housing and bitching about they can't feed their 8 chilren.

oh yeah I know. We just had a thread on that. Lady complaining she needed 5 free obama phones and more food stamps. Huge tv and 3 consoles in the background.

 

[BUTCH1]

That is such a bullshit typical liberal excuse.


The free market determines wages, and you can live just fine off of minimum wage. Mcdonalds is hiring, getting a ~$9/hr job is absolutely no problem for ANYONE who wants one. Can you own a 3 year old charger or 300 with dub deuces on that wage? No.

But you can go to wal mart, buy meat, potatoes, splurge on a nice meal here and there while driving a tercel or corolla.



The real problem is that if you scam the social systems you can easily make $40k a year on disability. So all of the lazy and immoral people (which is again, a cultural problem) have degenerative unprovable back disorders anxiety issues and live off government while smoking drugs and playing ps4 all day, all while bragging about how much their fat check is bringing in.



Being on government assistance should be shameful, and temporary. But, that doesn't create lifelong liberal voters.




Basically this mess was brought on by the liberal voting machine. Now they have what they fought for and are realizing maybe it wasn't the best solution afterall.

1st off, Mc'd's usually pays around $8/hr and most of the jobs are part-time, there is no way in hell anyone can afford much on that. Rent, car insurance, electric, food, you think a 30 hr workweek and $8/hr will cover all that?, oh, and disability, nobody on disability makes 40K/yr, that's laughable. Yes, there will always be a % of people (of ALL races) that would not work a job even if it was $20/hr with benefits but you would be shocked at the amount of people who would love the feeling of pride and self reliance if the opportunity was there, it's not, shipped offshore so the already rich stockholders can get fatter. What they don't get is by moving production off-shore you wind up with a dwindling consumer base to buy your product/service BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO JOB...

 

[Train]

1st off, Mc'd's usually pays around $8/hr and most of the jobs are part-time, there is no way in hell anyone can afford much on that. Rent, car insurance, electric, food, you think a 30 hr workweek and $8/hr will cover all that?, oh, and disability, nobody on disability makes 40K/yr, that's laughable. Yes, there will always be a % of people (of ALL races) that would not work a job even if it was $20/hr with benefits but you would be shocked at the amount of people who would love the feeling of pride and self reliance if the opportunity was there, it's not, shipped offshore so the already rich stockholders can get fatter. What they don't get is by moving production off-shore you wind up with a dwindling consumer base to buy your product/service BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO JOB...

UAW.txt

 

[Attic]

But that's not politically correct, so we will ignore the problem and let it fester.

The two pillars of 'political correctness' are:
a) willful ignorance
b) a steadfast refusal to face the truth
-George MacDonald

If we can't face the reality of a situation we'll never change it.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

1st off, Mc'd's usually pays around $8/hr and most of the jobs are part-time, there is no way in hell anyone can afford much on that. Rent, car insurance, electric, food, you think a 30 hr workweek and $8/hr will cover all that?, oh, and disability, nobody on disability makes 40K/yr, that's laughable. Yes, there will always be a % of people (of ALL races) that would not work a job even if it was $20/hr with benefits but you would be shocked at the amount of people who would love the feeling of pride and self reliance if the opportunity was there, it's not, shipped offshore so the already rich stockholders can get fatter. What they don't get is by moving production off-shore you wind up with a dwindling consumer base to buy your product/service BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO JOB...

More liberal apologist nonsense. Blame the stockholders... Blame the corporations... Blame everyone but the people who make bad personal choices.

$8 hour is fine. And if you CHOSE to be a lazy deadbeat in your early years then you might just have to work two 30 hour a week jobs. And, mcdonald's is just one example. Your local welfare office has staffing people who can help you get a full-time job or whatever you need. Just don't intentionally bomb the interviews like most leeches who only care about that monthly deposit on the EBT card.


And having to work hard as an adult the byproduct of CHOOSING to make bad decisions while you're young, you have to work hard to dig yourself out of that hole. After 4-5 years you should easily be making $30k++ per year. All it takes is hard work.... Which is difficult for certain people and cultures, again, because some cultures take pride in avoiding work and see it as more intelligent to just cash in that gubment check.



Life is not easy. Not for ANY culture or race. Very few people are born into money, and most of the people you see driving nice cars and living in nice houses have worked their entire lives for it.

Yet certain cultures just want that dumped into their lap. They blame these people who have worked hard for "holding them back", and it's just another excuse...

"excuses"... Yet another concept that certain cultures accept as answers to problems.

 

[DnetMHZ]

I know there has to be some common thread to all these ultra violent cities (St. Louis, Chicago, Detroit, Camden etc). They probably have loose gun laws that allow all the criminals to get armed. I'm sure they are all full of tea party supporters and run by evil GOP'ers

Camden is in NJ with some of the strictest gun laws in the country. (edit - May have missed some sarcasm here.)

 

[Jeffg010]

They are all cities with a disproportionate number of poor people. This is because many of the industries which grew, and caused the cities to grow with them abandoned the US and relocated off shore due to cost savings.

The end result is huge unemployed populations who feel as though their economic situation is hopeless and they turn to crime initially to survive and then make a lifestyle of it.

It is very sad.

Detroit, Chicago, and St Louis at least, were all huge manufacturing centers for durable and consumer goods. Now, most of the consumer goods manufacturing is gone, and that what remains doesn't pay as well as in the 50s and 60s when these cities were growing to accommodate the industries.

Then what happen to Pittsburgh? They lost the steel mils in the 80's and that was the main job suppler for that area but I never read where there was this much crime happening. Trying to blame it on job loss is foolish at best. The smart people get up and leave or they adjust to what jobs are available. The lack of minorities in the Pittsburgh area is the main reason why Pittsburgh is not high on crime compared to these other cities.

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories...le-room-for-growth-without-minorities-690037/

"One of the biggest factors is likely the lack of diversity in our region. The largest source of population growth in every region in the country has been racial and ethnic minorities."

 

[Proprioceptive]

It makes me so sad whenever I keep hearing these complaints about the poor being like this because they're poor. What a freaking ridiculous statement. It's just another attempt by someone to say we need to throw money at the problem. The biggest issue this country has to face is one of personal responsibility and integrity. I don't give a damn what your financial situation is. You know how to act like a person with integrity. If you want to resort to crime and violence, then you've failed yourself. Nobody failed YOU. YOU failed yourself. Children growing up with parents that have entitled attitudes find themselves getting caught in the middle of a self-perpetuating culture of laziness, hate, and self-loathing. They grow up seeing success around them as an ethnocentric schism and they learn to be jealous and/or hate those that do have that success. This is the parents' fault... hence the self-perpetuating cycle. It's a culture problem.

 

[homercles337]

So, basically poor minorities.

Poor being the only operative word here.

Also, what is up with this:

The circumstances did not qualify under rules limiting pursuits, so he gave up at Evans and Sarah Street.

...and this...

Again, the officer did not pursue.

Cop tells you to stop. You run. They give up?

 

[Train]

Cop tells you to stop. You run. They give up?

That's actually the rule in a lot of places now. Every time someone crashed and died or killed an innocent because they were fleeing the police, the police were blamed. So now they pretty much have to quit on most chases.

 

[madoka]

That's actually the rule in a lot of places now. Every time someone crashed and died or killed an innocent because they were fleeing the police, the police were blamed. So now they pretty much have to quit on most chases.

Now all you've accomplished is to encourage suspects/criminals to run away. If they'd have a policy of on the spot executions for those that run, then you're getting somewhere.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Now all you've accomplished is to encourage suspects/criminals to run away. If they'd have a policy of on the spot executions for those that run, then you're getting somewhere.

Shit >30% of liberal voting pool would be gone.... Can't allow that.

 

[Vdubchaos]

US Inner City = Shit holes. Applies to just about ANY city in US

Bridgeport, New Haven, Waterbury, Hartford, New Britain, Stamford.....all shit holes (and sure they have some nice sections of town, but I wouldn't want to live few blocks from the ghetto or have my kids go to public schools).

I'm a city boy and I hate cities with passion. All about remote areas/suburbs now. Further away from a City I get, more happier I become.

 

[T9D]

Here's why it's all concentrated in one place:

Nobody wants to live there. The ghetto's are always in non desirable areas. Ugly realestate. Whether it's just old houses or lack of a nice view or terrible design, or whatever. And it just keeps going downhill. Anyone with any drive, ambition, or intelligence gets out of there and does something with their life. What's left is all the people who just don't care. They live dirt cheap where the rent cost is super low. They all get concentrated in that area. People actually move into those area's to you know. They can start out in a decent area but end up there where it's dirt cheap.

So a lot of people with no ambition or drive, lazy, unintelligent, crime inclined, all funnel into these areas from dozens or hundreds of other cities where they couldn't make it. I mean if they didn't, well they would just be spread out more in the decent area's. Which is what section 8 does I guess. But they are still the same people. There will always be a certain percentage of people like that, they just can't compete out in the rest of the world or have no desire to. So they all end up in one spot.

People act like nobody ever gets out of the Ghetto. People do. They just leave behind the mess, while others even move in who are just like the people they left behind.

But yeah it doesn't help a kid when he's got two retarded parents who taught him nothing in life. And remember people inherit the same traits too from the genes of the parents. So you already have a concentration of a certain kind of people and they are more likely to create offspring the same way. This is why trailor trash puts out more trailor trash, and ghetto people put out more ghetto people.

I'm not saying everyone there is bad. Some decent people who really try may just get stuck in that life they came from. Maybe stuck there from bad health, or depression from growing up so bad, or stick around to be near family or help a family member. I don't know. I'm sure there are a lot of good people to that get lost in that black hole called ghettos.

Your environment will affect you. But it doesn't have to define you. Some people get abused or have very little and they become better people because of it. Some just don't care and become bad people. It's what you make of it. Nobody can force people to change though. It always comes down to the old warn out adage, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. You can do what the government wants to do and take it further and put the hose in the horses mouth, wash the horse, chew it's own food for it, clean it's poop up, etc, but in the end it's the same old horse that didn't want to drink and never will until it dies.

 

[shortylickens]

Yeah about half the guys I met in the Navy were poor ghetto kids who just wanted a chance at something better. Only way to do that is to flat out LEAVE. Get away from the drugs, gangs, and corruption.

 

[JMapleton]

US Inner City = Shit holes. Applies to just about ANY city in US

Bridgeport, New Haven, Waterbury, Hartford, New Britain, Stamford.....all shit holes (and sure they have some nice sections of town, but I wouldn't want to live few blocks from the ghetto or have my kids go to public schools).

lol, Why do you only list cities in Connecticut. How bad can Connecticut be? You know everyone from outside CT thinks only white people in polo shirts live in CT?

 

[Pocatello]

lol, Why do you only list cities in Connecticut. How bad can Connecticut be? You know everyone from outside CT thinks only white people in polo shirts live in CT?

Yeah, that is surprising. Probably too close to New York City. Since New York City is expensive, people has to live somewhere.